General VR discussion thread

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HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
So why is the Rift on backorder for so long? I read they are waiting on parts or something, what part is it?
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
So why is the Rift on backorder for so long? I read they are waiting on parts or something, what part is it?

They have said it's a part supply issue, but they won't divulge which part or who the supplier is.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
Hope those factories in China haven't suddenly decided to start giving workers breaks or anything stupid, they can take a break while they work...us poor American's are waiting for our orders ship for crying out loud...get back to work!!
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
So my initial comparisons:

W/O the touch,the Rift feels extremely lacking. This is magnified by having used the Vive first. You feel like an observer in worlds that are begging to be explored or interacted with. You WANT to reach out and interact, or go exploring and looking behind or under things, but..you can't. You can only watch. Even some sort of teleport system to explore would have been nice, but even this is missing. In most cases as well, even though they are standing experiences, you are not allowed to actually move to the side to look at anything, the screen follows you. This hurts the overall experience. I'm pretty sure this will change in the near future as Dev's realize what people like.

All of that doesn't mean it's a bad experience, the content and visuals are still amazing and maybe a bit more polished and diverse than what is on the Vive (so far). For example there's a plethora of ongoing 3D video which I have been unable to find for the Vive. They aren't the best experience out there, but it is something different. The Oculus portal is better than Steam VR (IMO).

The built in speakers are definitely a plus. Vive needs to incorporate this. Audiophiles be damned, it wont matter, as long as they don't use bottom of the barrel speakers.

There is much more glare on the Rift. It reminds me of astigmatism (which I have). This is very distracting in dark scenes, but is not there at all in brighter scenes. The Vive has those half circles on the bottom of the view, which gets worse when you have to look down, the Rift does not. Speaking of looking down, on the Vive, the headset will not stay in place and gets blurry, whereas the Rift stays put and never gets blurry. This was a nice change.

The option of a remote, or gamepad is nice, but again, coming from a "right input for the job" I don't think you should be limited to ONLY what the dev thinks (or forces) you to use. The problem is that once touch controllers come out, you STILL won't be able to use them for existing content unless they are patched. This goes for the Vive as well. If something calls for a gamepad...allow it! And don't lock it to a Xbox One controller.
 

xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
So my initial comparisons:

W/O the touch,the Rift feels extremely lacking. This is magnified by having used the Vive first. You feel like an observer in worlds that are begging to be explored or interacted with. You WANT to reach out and interact, or go exploring and looking behind or under things, but..you can't. You can only watch. Even some sort of teleport system to explore would have been nice, but even this is missing. In most cases as well, even though they are standing experiences, you are not allowed to actually move to the side to look at anything, the screen follows you. This hurts the overall experience. I'm pretty sure this will change in the near future as Dev's realize what people like.

All of that doesn't mean it's a bad experience, the content and visuals are still amazing and maybe a bit more polished and diverse than what is on the Vive (so far). For example there's a plethora of ongoing 3D video which I have been unable to find for the Vive. They aren't the best experience out there, but it is something different. The Oculus portal is better than Steam VR (IMO).

The built in speakers are definitely a plus. Vive needs to incorporate this. Audiophiles be damned, it wont matter, as long as they don't use bottom of the barrel speakers.

There is much more glare on the Rift. It reminds me of astigmatism (which I have). This is very distracting in dark scenes, but is not there at all in brighter scenes. The Vive has those half circles on the bottom of the view, which gets worse when you have to look down, the Rift does not. Speaking of looking down, on the Vive, the headset will not stay in place and gets blurry, whereas the Rift stays put and never gets blurry. This was a nice change.

The option of a remote, or gamepad is nice, but again, coming from a "right input for the job" I don't think you should be limited to ONLY what the dev thinks (or forces) you to use. The problem is that once touch controllers come out, you STILL won't be able to use them for existing content unless they are patched. This goes for the Vive as well. If something calls for a gamepad...allow it! And don't lock it to a Xbox One controller.

I think it depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for experiences, then yes, room experience (Vive) is better. If you're looking for straight gaming, Rift is better (or at least cheaper). In my case, I couldn't care less about room-experience. I just want to play games and feel immersed in them, for example, something like a fantasy MMO where I am in the world, in first person, that's my dream game.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I think it depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for experiences, then yes, room experience (Vive) is better. If you're looking for straight gaming, Rift is better (or at least cheaper). In my case, I couldn't care less about room-experience. I just want to play games and feel immersed in them, for example, something like a fantasy MMO where I am in the world, in first person, that's my dream game.

I feel much more immersed in the games I've played on the Vive than the Rift. But again, that comes down to the type of game and what control scheme it should have. Eve Valkarie controls are completely different than say The Climb (which badly needs touch controls) and is much better as a room scale game than a sitting game. Nothing makes you lose immersion faster than trying to reach for something, but you have no 'hand'/controller visual in the game. This is the biggest negative I am seeing on the Rift so far.

If all you are going to play is cockpit or driving games, then yes, why would you need anything else, but how many gamers ONLY play those? Even Lucky's Tale is better as a standing and moving around game, because sitting you can't really look around.

Either way, I'm not sure I'd say the Rift is better or worse necessarily, it is just missing options and shows a bit of lack in forethought. Generally I would say anyone who says "they could care less about room scale" hasn't tried it, or didn't try something that actually shows what it can do and the potential. I am truly a convert when it comes to that mindset. I didn't think I'd care about room scale either.....but I do now.

I have found something that is interesting about the Rift camera. I have it BEHIND my monitor for my set up pointed to the side so that it can see me when I stand, but even when I sit on the couch and re center, it works, even though there is zero line of sight to me. I'm a bit puzzled by that, but it is a plus.
 
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xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
I'm not interested in room experience because that's not what I'm looking for in VR. I want it for gaming. I don't want to be grabbing stuff or pushing stuff with my hands. I don't want to walk around. I want to be sitting, and use a controller/mouse/keyboard to move.
When I first played Everquest, what made me feel it was revolutionary was when I was running in a forest, and I looked around me while I was running and there were other people running with me. This was in 1999. All I want is for the same feeling, but in VR.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Have you tried either yet? The controller for 3D environments (outside of cockpit and driving and very camera stationary games) is a lackluster way to play those type of games. I get it for certain things, but what you are describing just isn't one of them.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
I'm not interested in room experience because that's not what I'm looking for in VR. I want it for gaming. I don't want to be grabbing stuff or pushing stuff with my hands. I don't want to walk around. I want to be sitting, and use a controller/mouse/keyboard to move.
When I first played Everquest, what made me feel it was revolutionary was when I was running in a forest, and I looked around me while I was running and there were other people running with me. This was in 1999. All I want is for the same feeling, but in VR.

I think what you said earlier about what type of VR experience you're looking for holds true. I would love roomscale for my GearVR, but plenty of games are great with the Xbox-style wireless controller that I use with it. For example, Adventure Time is similar to Mario 64; it's great with a controller & VR simply adds an incredibly cool dimension to the game format.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Holy wow Eve Valkarie gave me motion sickness fairly quickly. Hope I can get past it, I love the game.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
I'm not interested in room experience because that's not what I'm looking for in VR. I want it for gaming. I don't want to be grabbing stuff or pushing stuff with my hands. I don't want to walk around. I want to be sitting, and use a controller/mouse/keyboard to move.
When I first played Everquest, what made me feel it was revolutionary was when I was running in a forest, and I looked around me while I was running and there were other people running with me. This was in 1999. All I want is for the same feeling, but in VR.

I'd rather sit too, I just want a huge screen in front of me and I think VR would provide that better than a projector plus the 3D depth is icing on the cake. I liked 3D TV's with games but only a couple actually looked right but there was still ghosting.
I wouldn't mind moving my arms around to reach for things in game but my muscles are usually sore and stiff after work anyway to be standing.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I'd rather sit too, I just want a huge screen in front of me and I think VR would provide that better than a projector plus the 3D depth is icing on the cake. I liked 3D TV's with games but only a couple actually looked right but there was still ghosting.
I wouldn't mind moving my arms around to reach for things in game but my muscles are usually sore and stiff after work anyway to be standing.

I would say it is 'so so' for that use case. Reading in it on non VR games can be a bit difficult at times. The Rift has horrible glare in dark scenes. I did spend about 3 hours in it reading a visual novel to see how the affect was and it was cool, but again, it strained your eyes to read the text. Many games I've tried so far simply crash after a bit in VR mode, but I imagine there are workarounds/fixes for most things.

There is no 3D depth when playing normal games in VR, it is simply projected on a screen. The only 3D depth you have is the environment you choose (such as a theater).

After doing it a few times I'm not sure I would do it all the time. It's nice that it can, but it's not overwhelmingly cool like games actually made for VR.

Should caveat that by saying I've not tried VorpX yet. I am anxious to try quite a few FPS but that use case is different.
 
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xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
I would say it is 'so so' for that use case. Reading in it on non VR games can be a bit difficult at times. The Rift has horrible glare in dark scenes. I did spend about 3 hours in it reading a visual novel to see how the affect was and it was cool, but again, it strained your eyes to read the text. Many games I've tried so far simply crash after a bit in VR mode, but I imagine there are workarounds/fixes for most things.

There is no 3D depth when playing normal games in VR, it is simply projected on a screen. The only 3D depth you have is the environment you choose (such as a theater).

After doing it a few times I'm not sure I would do it all the time. It's nice that it can, but it's not overwhelmingly cool like games actually made for VR.

Should caveat that by saying I've not tried VorpX yet. I am anxious to try quite a few FPS but that use case is different.

Yes, I don't see the allure of watching a 2d something in a 3d environment, except perhaps as a social thing, like if one day my brothers and sister that live in different parts of the world can decide to go to a virtual cinema where we're there sitting 'next to each other' and we can joke around as if we were in the cinema (without a teenager sitting behind me kicking the seat).
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Yes, I don't see the allure of watching a 2d something in a 3d environment, except perhaps as a social thing, like if one day my brothers and sister that live in different parts of the world can decide to go to a virtual cinema where we're there sitting 'next to each other' and we can joke around as if we were in the cinema (without a teenager sitting behind me kicking the seat).

I do agree that I think that would be a cool thing. I've always thought movies were meant to be a group experience.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
Yes, I don't see the allure of watching a 2d something in a 3d environment, except perhaps as a social thing, like if one day my brothers and sister that live in different parts of the world can decide to go to a virtual cinema where we're there sitting 'next to each other' and we can joke around as if we were in the cinema (without a teenager sitting behind me kicking the seat).

What I meant was for that large screen, in your face experience to fill more of your peripheral than sitting at a desk or 10+ feet away from a TV.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Finally got my Rift today.

I only played one match, but no problems with Eve Valkyrie at all. It seemed pretty fun, I just wasn't in the mood for a space fighter. I haven't tried Elite Dangerous on it yet.

Lucky's Tale or whatever seemed to be a completely pointless platformer type game. I only played it before the Eve game downloaded. I bought Chronos and have played it the most. I enjoy it, but there is absolutely no reason for it to be a game that requires an HMD. There are rooms, you are the camera. You are pinned at a certain position and can look around (think resident evil type camera silliness, but you can pan around). You control a little man in a Zelda like adventure. I'll try with the space dogfighting games more soon though.

Comfort is fine, though I do end up with a bit of a Rift face after playing a while. Also, high contrast scenes look horrible because whites on dark backgrounds seem to get a weird glow or haze on the lens that is super distracting.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Lucky's Tale or whatever seemed to be a completely pointless platformer type game. I only played it before the Eve game downloaded. I bought Chronos and have played it the most. I enjoy it, but there is absolutely no reason for it to be a game that requires an HMD. There are rooms, you are the camera. You are pinned at a certain position and can look around (think resident evil type camera silliness, but you can pan around). You control a little man in a Zelda like adventure. I'll try with the space dogfighting games more soon though.

That's the recurring theme for the majority of the Oculus Home content.

Comfort is fine, though I do end up with a bit of a Rift face after playing a while. Also, high contrast scenes look horrible because whites on dark backgrounds seem to get a weird glow or haze on the lens that is super distracting.

The lens glare is known as god rays. They're a bit more prevalent on the Rift due to the finer fresnel ridges.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I would say it is 'so so' for that use case. Reading in it on non VR games can be a bit difficult at times. The Rift has horrible glare in dark scenes. I did spend about 3 hours in it reading a visual novel to see how the affect was and it was cool, but again, it strained your eyes to read the text. Many games I've tried so far simply crash after a bit in VR mode, but I imagine there are workarounds/fixes for most things.

There is no 3D depth when playing normal games in VR, it is simply projected on a screen. The only 3D depth you have is the environment you choose (such as a theater).

After doing it a few times I'm not sure I would do it all the time. It's nice that it can, but it's not overwhelmingly cool like games actually made for VR.

Should caveat that by saying I've not tried VorpX yet. I am anxious to try quite a few FPS but that use case is different.

One day the headset will be lighter than a smartphone and offer 8k per eye. But then again there would be a wealth of real VR content by then. Catch-22 situation I guess.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Heard Oculus is shipping units to Best Buy before all the preorders are filled. That is pretty ridiculous.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Heard Oculus is shipping units to Best Buy before all the preorders are filled. That is pretty ridiculous.

It is truth. Speculation is that they had a contractural agreement to provide X number of units to the retailers by a certain date. It's not just Best Buy either. Amazon had a limited number of units that people were able to scoop up a week ago or so.

Oculus has even encouraged preorders to try and get one from retail and allow them to keep their bundle... :\

Edit:

In other news, every VR related subreddit has been blowing up the last 24 hours about Oculus implementing a DRM that requires an Oculus device to be plugged in to use the store, removing ReVive compatibility. It's already been circumvented, but it's an indication of their attitude despite things said in the past towards being "open to other brands of headsets." As mentioned, the creator has circumvented it and like a true folk hero requests anyone wishing to thank him monetarily to simply donate to the EFF.

Some goodies from the past 24 hours:





In the same concerning vein is the that Oculus has said support for DK2 will drop in a few months, raising concerns about what happens to CV1 when CV2 is out (referenced above). Technologically, DK2 is more similar to CV1 than one can reasonably assume CV2 will be to CV1 (res, tracking tech, etc). So, no reason to drop support other than to force users to a current product. Apple methodology at its best. In contrast, HTC/Valve have said backwards compatibility with OpenVR will be maintained indefinitely to a couple releases ago, guaranteeing the Vive will work for as long as OpenVR exists and is used by developers. If I were a developer, I know where I'd be developing...

It's ironic that OpenVR is the last hope for DK2 owners in a few months.

Edit 2: One more. I giggled.

 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,026
136
Well, I'm glad I canceled my preorder a few months back. No way in hell I'm supporting Oculus with those anti-gamer business practices.
 
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