General VR discussion thread

[flexy]

If I'm interested in VR at some point - within a year, say - is Vive the one to get? Is there a 2.0 coming out within a year? Or is the holiday deal the thing to get for the next couple years?

At THIS point (the age-old comparison topic again)...it's really moot whether to get a Rift or the Vive. Both have some pros and cons.
In two years there will be something better which will blow BOTH out of the water, no question. Both sets "suffer" essentially from the same issues still (if that's important), this is things like screen door effect, lower resolution, and limited FOV. None of these sets IMHO has potential to carry you over for some years if you ask me. And for a first look into VR, both sets are decent.

I got the Rift, but for the Vive *heavily* speaks you can find a lot more stuff eg. on Steam, BUT...this is the other issue...it's quantity only and very little "actual" full games. 90% of what is out there right now seems to me early access, "experiences", demos, etc. and I can only name very few *actual* complete games, Elite, Chronos, Eve Valkyrie, simple puzzle games types of stuff. So the quantity on VR games on steam is actually deceiving.

 

[Alamat]

Question for those who have Vive and Elite Dangerous, I'm just on the training missions and I get to the point where you have to ask for permission for docking. I can't seem to choose the contacts options to do that. I'm using a TM HotasX and also some keys on the kb. Also using a popular control scheme over at reddit for the hotas.

 

[ImpulsE69]

At THIS point (the age-old comparison topic again)...it's really moot whether to get a Rift or the Vive. Both have some pros and cons.
In two years there will be something better which will blow BOTH out of the water, no question. Both sets "suffer" essentially from the same issues still (if that's important), this is things like screen door effect, lower resolution, and limited FOV. None of these sets IMHO has potential to carry you over for some years if you ask me. And for a first look into VR, both sets are decent.

I got the Rift, but for the Vive *heavily* speaks you can find a lot more stuff eg. on Steam, BUT...this is the other issue...it's quantity only and very little "actual" full games. 90% of what is out there right now seems to me early access, "experiences", demos, etc. and I can only name very few *actual* complete games, Elite, Chronos, Eve Valkyrie, simple puzzle games types of stuff. So the quantity on VR games on steam is actually deceiving.

Pretty much this. If you get into either now..you just have to be interested in seeing the potential and where things will go. There is some cool stuff, but none of it is long lasting in terms of usability. That being said, DF is something I've put 100's of hours into. The thing is though, it really doesn't need to be a VR game and I'm not sure if it is really enhanced by it, even though it has some cool moments.

 

[Childs]

While waiting at the mall I started watching someone play at the Microsoft Store. They had the tv going so you could see what they were reacting to. Kinda amazed how many times she flinched when the robot dog jumped at her, or things flew towards her. I cant really imagine it being that immersive, and was tempted to try it but there were a lot of people waiting and watching and filming. And then the next person in line tried and the machine crashed. lol

 

[Craig234]

OK, sounds like I'm going to wait for the next gen. I hate screen door also. What is DF? AUA. (Avoid unnecessary acronyms, obviously.)

 

[flexy]

While waiting at the mall I started watching someone play at the Microsoft Store. They had the tv going so you could see what they were reacting to. Kinda amazed how many times she flinched when the robot dog jumped at her, or things flew towards her. I cant really imagine it being that immersive, and was tempted to try it but there were a lot of people waiting and watching and filming. And then the next person in line tried and the machine crashed. lol

The funny thing is that what people see on the screen that shows what the Rift plays does it no way reflect the actual experience. Most stuff running on the Rift, now judging what you see on the screen I wouldn't even bother trying. Since you say you haven't tried it yet, let me put it in simple words: It really *is* difficult to describe, this is something you need to experience.

I have found a fantastic picture on reddit yesterday that can help "explaining" VR to people, also what the dff between the ol' "3D TVs" and the Rift is.

The pic totally nails it. It explains nicely why even as a owner of a 50" 3D Plasma I always considered 3DTV a shitty gimmick and didn't really further pursue this.
Once you experience, say, a planet hovering in space right before you, or some spaceship hundreds of meters large above you...it is this sense of presence and actual size and dimension of things (which comes WELL across in VR) which makes all the difference.

 

[Alamat]

One way I usually describe VR to people is that you kind of step into a room, you are there and can interact and move about. Really different experience but as everyone has been saying, you have to experience it.

 

[Childs]

Yeah, its hard to imagine it being that immersive, and I figured I needed to actually try it. Theres no rush since I dont really have the room to set it up even if I was impressed and wanted to buy it. I was going to go back to the Microsoft store after the holidays when the crowds die down.

I'm kinda hoping they come up with a way just to use the glasses as a monitor. I think I would prefer that and just use keyboard and mouse to navigate.

 

[Linux23]

Can you play 3d Blu-ray movies on these things?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Can you play 3d Blu-ray movies on these things?

You can, and it will be in 3D, but it would be more about the sheer appearance of size (such as you watching it in a theater) than quality. The quality is OK, but if you are a videophile you would be disappointed.

The problem with videos is that there is a bit of blurriness and of course if you really notice the SDE it might put you off. Personally I only see SDE in a few choice moments -- usually when things are dark gray (not black) while things are loading. Otherwise I don't notice it.

On the Rift you have the addition of god rays which show up pretty clearly during black scenes with bright foregrounds.

 

[flexy]

Yeah, its hard to imagine it being that immersive, and I figured I needed to actually try it. Theres no rush since I dont really have the room to set it up even if I was impressed and wanted to buy it. I was going to go back to the Microsoft store after the holidays when the crowds die down.

I'm kinda hoping they come up with a way just to use the glasses as a monitor. I think I would prefer that and just use keyboard and mouse to navigate.

You can "in principle" use the glasses as a monitor. Heck, you can put yourself into the Startrek Enterprise Bridge (or a Japanese tea garden, or on a beach, or on a planet, or desert....whatever) and have giant screen in front of you with the desktop. There are apps like virtual desktop (paid), or "BigScreen".

I say "in principle" since in reality the resolution is not enough for this, text will be quite distorted and blurry and you definitely don't want to actually work like this. This is a typical example where you hit the limits of this gen of tech, definitely DON'T compare this to the clearness and crispness of a monitor. In games etc. it doesn't matter whatsoever, but working etc. is a different story. Just be aware of these shortcomings.

 

[Childs]

You can "in principle" use the glasses as a monitor. Heck, you can put yourself into the Startrek Enterprise Bridge (or a Japanese tea garden, or on a beach, or on a planet, or desert....whatever) and have giant screen in front of you with the desktop. There are apps like virtual desktop (paid), or "BigScreen".

I say "in principle" since in reality the resolution is not enough for this, text will be quite distorted and blurry and you definitely don't want to actually work like this. This is a typical example where you hit the limits of this gen of tech, definitely DON'T compare this to the clearness and crispness of a monitor. In games etc. it doesn't matter whatsoever, but working etc. is a different story. Just be aware of these shortcomings.

I was thinking just for games. It probably would be limited though since the game would need to support the glasses, but the games that do seem more like fancy point and click games, not the stuff that I normally play. And while I dont really look down at the keyboard that much when playing, not being able to would be a hinderance at times.

I remember many years ago at a Sony store trying these glasses that were essentially a TV that was supposed to take up most of your field of view. So it would be like you were in the front row of a theater. Instead it just looked like a really small screen in front of your eyes. I think thats why I dont buy into the immersiveness of VR. I know its different tech, but its hard to believe the mind will play along when you know before hand its not real. Kinda like jump scares in movies...it only gets you once, and when you know they are coming it isnt as effective. I guess I should stop thinking about it and just try it out. Trying to pitch VR must be like advertising 4K or OLED or wide color TVs to someone watching the ad on a 1080p. The only frame of reference I have is the old school Dactyl Terror VR arcade machine that cost like $10 for 5 min, and that wasnt even impressive in the 90s.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Bodies and minds are united: your brain plays along because your body plays along.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I was thinking just for games. It probably would be limited though since the game would need to support the glasses, but the games that do seem more like fancy point and click games, not the stuff that I normally play. And while I dont really look down at the keyboard that much when playing, not being able to would be a hinderance at times.

I remember many years ago at a Sony store trying these glasses that were essentially a TV that was supposed to take up most of your field of view. So it would be like you were in the front row of a theater. Instead it just looked like a really small screen in front of your eyes. I think thats why I dont buy into the immersiveness of VR. I know its different tech, but its hard to believe the mind will play along when you know before hand its not real. Kinda like jump scares in movies...it only gets you once, and when you know they are coming it isnt as effective. I guess I should stop thinking about it and just try it out. Trying to pitch VR must be like advertising 4K or OLED or wide color TVs to someone watching the ad on a 1080p. The only frame of reference I have is the old school Dactyl Terror VR arcade machine that cost like $10 for 5 min, and that wasnt even impressive in the 90s.

I can say first hand this is nothing like those old glasses. I remember those. As for games, you are correct..lots of experimentation and exasperation in attempting to come up with the best way to make games for VR. That being said, as more old stuff becomes open source, people are figuring things out. Recently both Doom 3 BFG and Penumbra have VR mods, and they are pretty damn good for what actual AAA games would be like. Space and therefore movement in VR is always going to be an issue, but it is easy to be immersed. Scary games in general are MUCH MUCH scarier in VR. The sense of scale is also quite crazy in VR. Really the best way to say it is if you think about a 3rd person game and where that person sits in the FOV, pretend YOU are that person (from that persons perspective). The world DOES look like it is around you, no matter where you look. Things are in 3D, therefore like you are actually there in person. That is just the beginning of it though. Some things are way more impressive than others.

 

[Craig234]

Over a decade ago, I spent $100 on some '3d glasses' that were very tricky to get working, and I got them to work for a few seconds here and there, and said 'oh nice'. Basically a total waste.

 

[flexy]

Instead it just looked like a really small screen in front of your eyes. I think thats why I dont buy into the immersiveness of VR. I know its different tech, but its hard to believe the mind will play along when you know before hand its not real.

Well it really depends on how "immersion" is defined. But let me assure you, the sense of size of something, distance, "dimension" etc. is where VR will blow you away, despite some shortcomings like for example a smaller FOV.

There is from an optical point of view (eg. how you see things with your eyes) no (correction: not much) difference to seeing things in real life. So when there is a 50m screen in front of you, you DO in fact see it as a 50m screen. Absolutely!! If you stand on a ledge looking down a skyscraper etc. it REALLY looks/feels like a drop many thousands of ft deep etc.

I know this is the silliest thing, but things like, say cockpits within a jet or space ship etc. can look so real rendered in front of your eyes I am STILL catching myself wanting to touch things.. even if I am of course knowing it's the most idiotic thing to do since there is nothing to touch

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yea, the key thing is that those old 3D glasses/monitors....you just felt like you were looking at a flat screen that was really large. The VR headsets now, do not share that. For 3D type games, because of how they are made now, the world is around you. Yes you feel like you are looking through a portal at times, but that fades the longer you are in it as you adjust to that feeling...to a degree.

As mentioned, the cockpit. It really feels like you are in that cockpit. It is just so hard to explain to someone until they actually see it for themselves. Throw any past experiences to the side as nothing I've ever tried in the past even comes close to this when it is done right.

 

[youngok]

I've had a bunch of family & friends try out the Viewmaster (mainly VR photos, VRSE's "Take Flight", and a CGI rollercoaster simulation). Two of them got sick from looking around, especially on the rollercoaster sim, even though it was just Crash Bandicoot-level computer graphics. I was really surprised that anyone would have a negative reaction to it (because it's not like it's a clear, high-def picture), but one almost fell over and the other kept having to remove the glasses to manage the nausea. Interesting. I wonder if it's something like flying that you can push through & get used to eventually.

Second thing, there's no physical pass-through for an audio cable on the Viewmaster, and some content has binaural audio that requires headphones to sound the best with. Plenty of cheap BT headphones on Amazon, or just get a Bluetooth receiver with audio port for your existing headphones:

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Headphones/dp/B00E174RTS/

I got a SVPRO VR Glasses similar GEAR VR,and simple design.I like to use it for playing 3D virtual game and watching 3D movie when my free time,and it is cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/Svpro-bluetooth-comfortable-adjustable-compatible/dp/B01DZYYFPS

 

[Childs]

I'll try out the Google Cardboard kit. I assumed that stuff wouldnt work with iPhones, but apparently it does. Might be a fun stocking stuffer to give to my friends kids. I know its not the best possible experience, but I have a feeling in a year or two this will end up like 3D.

 

[Kaido]

I'll try out the Google Cardboard kit. I assumed that stuff wouldnt work with iPhones, but apparently it does. Might be a fun stocking stuffer to give to my friends kids. I know its not the best possible experience, but I have a feeling in a year or two this will end up like 3D.

My path went:

1. Google Cardboard (via a Viewmaster)
2. Samsung GearVR
3. HTC Vive

The quality of GC depends on your phone's screen. Lots of headsets available, just poke around on Amazon for one that fits your screen size & has a strap (so you can go hands-free). The GearVR is a big step up, but also costs more & requires certain phones, and finally the computer-based ones are crazy expensive (but awesome). The PSVR is a bit more reasonable, but the tracking & stuff isn't quite as good. Google Cardboard is a great entry tho & there's plenty of content available to have fun with, especially since you can buy a pretty decent headset for under $30.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yeah it's nice to tiptoe in the water with a Gear VR.

I so hope the rumors of a Vive 2 in 2017 are legit. I want to get into big boy VR so bad but my 10 old policy of not buying gen 1 products barely holds me back.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Yeah it's nice to tiptoe in the water with a Gear VR.

I so hope the rumors of a Vive 2 in 2017 are legit. I want to get into big boy VR so bad but my 10 old policy of not buying gen 1 products barely holds me back.

I think of the Vive as gen 2: the rift was gen 1.

 

[ImpulsE69]

They've already said there is no Vive 2 planned any time soon...but that could just be misdirection so people don't stop buying the current one.

 

[Childs]

My path went:

1. Google Cardboard (via a Viewmaster)
2. Samsung GearVR
3. HTC Vive

The quality of GC depends on your phone's screen. Lots of headsets available, just poke around on Amazon for one that fits your screen size & has a strap (so you can go hands-free). The GearVR is a big step up, but also costs more & requires certain phones, and finally the computer-based ones are crazy expensive (but awesome). The PSVR is a bit more reasonable, but the tracking & stuff isn't quite as good. Google Cardboard is a great entry tho & there's plenty of content available to have fun with, especially since you can buy a pretty decent headset for under $30.

I went with the kit thats literally made of cardboard! lol Google had a 2 for $25 deal, and in looking at the cheaper versions people complain about this and that, so I figured Google's version should be the minimum. I only have an iPhone 5, but I'm gifting an iPhone 7 Plus this Xmas so I can try it out then if it looks like crap on my phone. The Viewmaster brand kit is only $15 so I still might get that for my friends kids, although I dont know if they would want their kids regularly using their phones for this. I still need to run it by them, but if not then I'll just give them the second cardboard one so they could try it for the day then toss it.

Someone should make the equivalent of the an Android iPod Touch thats specifically for VR. Something that you wouldnt mind letting little kids use and drop over and over again. Maybe there is a reasonably priced unlocked pre-paid Android phone that could be use for this.

 

[flexy]

I think of the Vive as gen 2: the rift was gen 1.

How exactly is the Vive gen2 and the rift gen1? Because the Vive came included with two "wands"? Which by the way are ridiculous over-sized.
Because all the rest is +/- the same. Comparing one gen to another would imply some *significant* changes which there definitely are not, unless you are referring to Rift DK2 or DK1.

I know that it's childish and non-constructive to compare Vive and Rift (CV1), literally non-constructive since there can never be a "winner" with this comparison, but using this logic I could say I think the CV1 is "gen2" compared to the Vive since the Vive REALLY feels (and looks) like some prototype "hacked together" while the CV1 feels and comes across as a polished product. Not just judging from looks alone also when it comes to setup etc.

Edit: I understand you maybe saying/thinking the Vive is gen2 because it came AFTER anyone and their mama associated Rift with VR (no question)...but just wanting to clarify that I would never ever want to say to someone that the Vive is gen2, eg. for a purchase decision, since it implies something which so is simply not the case.