General warns: ‘US could lose against North Korea’

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urvile

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2017
1,575
474
96
Pardon, but where is "here?" Just curious.

Australia. There was a well publicised incident here quite a while ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pong_Su_incident

Funnily enough the north korean crew were all found not guilty by a supreme court jury.

After the ship was seized the air force eventually used it for target practice and IIRC the NK government sent the aus government a bill for the ship.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
i think the constant, desperate state of the NK populace indicates that the NK leaders have little regard for actually being leaders of the people. i think putting pressure on NK via China is the only way to "solve" the issue (not that I have any sort of vast insight into the political affairs on the korean peninsula).

A military conflict is very much a lose-lose situation. There is no good outcome to be had there.

Yup, China is the only one who could defuse the situation peacefully. I really don't understand why they continue to support NK. It just seems to me that NK has become a major headache even for them.
 
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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,762
2,146
146
I'm sure retired Lieutenant General Jan-Marc Jouas is no longer involved in an pertinent military information. Your thread title is also a misnomer. It should read "Retired General warns: ‘US could lose against North Korea Again'.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Yup, China is the only one who could defuse the situation peacefully. I really don't understand why they continue to support NK. It just seems to me that NK has become a major headache even for them.

They already have a N Korean refugee problem. War in Korea would turn it into a deluge, even if they somehow managed to avoid entanglement.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Don't worry, our president is engaging in some one-on-one diplomacy.



(if you think that's fake, well, just check his twitter)
 

urvile

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2017
1,575
474
96
I'm sure retired Lieutenant General Jan-Marc Jouas is no longer involved in an pertinent military information.

Yes. I am sure he doesn't know jack shit compared to people who have never been senior command officers in Korea.

Your thread title is also a misnomer.

Hey. I'm just copying and pasting stuff. You have a problem with the title take it up with the author of the article I posted.
 

pad23amg

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
13
0
11
Any military action on NK will be suicidal as their leader is notorious for his unintelligent decisions. With NKs long range missiles armed with nukes, make Kim a dangerous person to every other countries in the world. Better do not provoke him and try to reason with him to abandon his nuke plans and dismantle his missiles.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
Don't worry, our president is engaging in some one-on-one diplomacy.



(if you think that's fake, well, just check his twitter)

WTF!!..."It's bizarre that you're calling me names, because I would never do that to you. No way would I ever call you out as stupid or fat or lazy or ugly or being illiterate or any of your other, many, deep, serious flaws. I would never do that to you, you moron."

I'm more baffled by the "I tried to be his friend" part. Is calling someone "Little Rocket Man" and threatening to destroy their country Donald's way of making friends, or is he just senile?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
The wide variation and amount of speculation here mostly includes scenarios that are all within a sieve of existing possibilities, each with some unknown probability of occurrence.

Risk is just another word for uncertainty

One purpose of government in general is the reduction of collective risk. If conservatives dispute this imperative as it might pertain to domestic programs and expenditures, there is no doubt that all history makes it an imperative for defense and preparation for war. Remember Thomas Hobbes and his remark about a life that is "brutish, nasty and short."

So Trump -- who is not a calculating businessman but rather a bluffing gambler -- is increasing the uncertainty or risk in our attention to the North Korea problem.

So I'll add another speculation, which I cannot entirely dismiss. Once a miscalculation occurs leading to a nuclear exchange, DPRK missiles are more likely to be fired at the West Coast. A recent pronouncement by the DPRK states that they will not engage in diplomacy until they have a weapon capable of reaching the East Coast. It would almost seem that they anticipate the scenario involving the West Coast, but they want Trump to develop second thoughts under their more ambitious technological objective.

Trump may well then decide "Oh, well! Those are heavily Democratic states! Now we can REALLY win the popular vote!" And further buried in his subconscious one might find a smoldering resentment that USC (in Los Angeles) had rejected his application to attend film school during his youth.

There is one thing certain about the Narcissist. Narcissists very easily exhibit a great deal of jealousy. And for all I know, Trump even hates the West Coast because we have better weather.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Until we see a nation-state organize into communism under a true representative democracy, the only examples of communism we have been dictatorships or at least highly authoritarian, unless you want to include organizations like kibbutzim or Hutterite colonies. But those are voluntary associations, not nation-states. Most people just don't seem to want a life in which they can't have anything significant of their own, and won't enter into such a thing voluntarily.
There is an old saying, "he who sits by the pot eats" and it doesn't matter if it is communist, capitalist, socialist, etc. form of government

Because the actual leaders running these government "-ists" in name only paradises seem to always have the significant things that they deny to the people they rule over or are difficult for them to get,

USSR, North Korea, many Eastern European countries under the Soviet iron curtain all had special privileges and goods for those in high ranking important party positions.

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-03-17/local/me-22368_1_soviet-union

There was a time when a lot of people really believed that whatever its faults the Soviet Union was on the way to creating a society free of exploitaton and class distinctions. Everybody knows better now.
Almost 30 years have passed since Milovan Djilas, one-time Tito intimate and veteran Yugoslav Communist, shocked the world by writing a book, "The New Class," in which he charged that a new feudalism had arisen in communist countries. The new ruling class, he said, was a self-aggrandizing oligarchy made up of the communist political and managerial elite.

The disillusioned Djilas' premise, though big news at the time, is generally accepted nowadays inside and outside the Soviet Union. Everybody knows that--despite all their talk of creating an egalitarian, classless society--communists are no different from other people when it comes to feathering their own nests. Them that has get.


However, the existence of an organized system of privilege was not openly discussed in the Soviet Union until it broke into the open at the recent congress of the Soviet Communist Party.

Formally, disparities in pay are very narrow. Politburo members collect paychecks that are not much larger than those for skilled workers. But, in fact , party leaders and functionaries--as well as leading writers, artists and technocrats--enjoy perks and privileges beyond the wildest dreams of the average Ivan.

Members of the so-called nomenklatura , numbering perhaps a million, have special holiday retreats, access to special medical facilities and--most resented by ordinary Russians--access to special stores that sell imported and Soviet-made goods that are simply not available in the regular stores. Many also have cars and chauffeurs.

As a practical matter, the privileges are hereditary, since children of the elite have an inside track on admission to the top universities--graduation from which guarantees them good jobs and a place on the nomenklatura list.


The first hint that change just might be in the air came in December, when poet Evgenii Evtushenko made a speech to the Writers Congress denouncing the coupons for special shops "that every delegate to this congress has in his pocket, as I do in mine." This portion of his remarks, however, was not published in the Soviet Union.

Then, just a few days before the party congress opened, Pravda published letters complaining about special privileges for party officials. The most notable letter was signed by one N. Nikolaev, identified as a party member since 1940.

"We can no longer close our eyes," he said, "to the fact that party, government, trade-union and managerial . . . officials sometimes deepen existing inequalities through their use of special canteens, special shops and special hospitals."

Nikolaev said that he had no objection to high salaries for people in responsible jobs. But, in his words, "Let the boss go with everybody else to an ordinary store, and stand in line like everyone else. And then perhaps those lines that we're all sick and tired of will be eliminated more quickly."

Since Pravda is the official voice of the Kremlin, it was fair to assume that the newspaper was delivering a message from party leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev. Subsequent events, however, were puzzling.

Politburo member Geidar Aliev denied in a news conference that members of the party elite enjoyed special advantages. But in the next breath he said that the question of whether such privileges should be eliminated "is still under discussion."

 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
It depends on your definition of losing. If there is a full scale war, whether it goes nuclear or not, NK will eventually be carpet bombed out of existence. The US will lose ten of thousands of troops, South Korea will have its main city and capital destroyed and will have millions of casualties. But South Korea will survive and rebuild. We will pay a huge cost.

If it goes nuclear (which kind of takes Trump's goal out of the picture) the costs will be much higher but the timetable shorter.

I honestly don't see China or Russia actively sending in troops or actively assisting NK this time around. If they do we are talking WW III-with The Donald leading the USA. May God have mercy on the USA in that case.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,217
15,787
126
Yup, China is the only one who could defuse the situation peacefully. I really don't understand why they continue to support NK. It just seems to me that NK has become a major headache even for them.


They don't want to deal with NK refugees.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,658
12,781
146
As time goes on, and since the US has happily usurped NK on the 'crazy-leader-o-meter', I think NK is going to be genuinely brought 'into the fold' at the big-boy table. They've apparently been able to legitimize themselves through sheer persistence, even if it's been on the backs of its people.

Perhaps true resolution will come from conceding that NK is indeed its own country, does deserve to be legitimized, and let them get ground under the same human rights boot as the rest of the legitimate nations? Garbage deal but sure beats the pants off the annihilation of SK. I have a feeling NK wouldn't stop until SK was handed over on a platter, though.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
That's my take. N Korea is the boogieman. It's a reefer madness kind of deal. It gets the shallow thinkers all frothed up about starting another war, cuz they's looking at us funny. Cuz we's skeered!

N Korea can't attack because they'd be annihilated. China won't back them if they do & might even act against them.

We can't attack because our S Korean allies want no part of it & because the Chinese have to support N Korea if we do.

Kim's nuclear weapons change none of that. They can't use them because a single SSBN can put 24 MIRV'd Tridents up their ass in a matter of minutes.

So, you believe Kim is self interested and would not risk his life provoking war eh? So tell me, has anyone ever committed suicide? What is the purpose of provoking the west with Nukes?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
So, you believe Kim is self interested and would not risk his life provoking war eh? So tell me, has anyone ever committed suicide? What is the purpose of provoking the west with Nukes?

To lock us into scenarios where we can't attack even if we were willing to sacrifice our ROK allies. It's a sort of MAD.
 
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