Generational Tensions Within the New York Times

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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
I found this point interesting: One generation came of age where they entered this esteemed institution and tried to find a way to fit into it, and this other generation has an expectation that the institution will change to accommodate them. That’s the essence of the tension.”

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, ‘tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.—Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember’d.

I wonder, if the whining demands of today's offended youth mirror not the petulant emotional immaturity of Donald Trump and all his childish blowhard bluster.
Remember, these people and I include my kids in this, were given trophies for showing up for T-ball, so what do you expect.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Easy Bro, all that happened long ago. You are the pile of scraps that remain, your weltanschauung.


I wonder what his brand of tyranny will look like? It's kind of fun in a train wreck way. Every generation that came before was incompetent and even evil because they lacked the ability to see the future set in stone, but the current one has superpowers, that is until the curse of "we won't get fooled again" kicks in and they join the foolish old people like you and me. Of course that couldn't happen to him
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
Lol, you sorely need some perspective. This is an age-old and endless cycle. Soon enough, you'll be the very same people you now hate. Don't believe me? You really should have read the entire article, sport. Or if you (think) you did, you should have better taken it in. I'll just leave you with this, right from the very article you may have thought you read:

As Gay Talese once wrote of the 1950s-era Times: “There were philosophical differences dividing older Timesmen who feared that the paper was losing touch with its tradition and younger men who felt trapped by tradition.”)

What goes around, comes around, Mr. Bitter Generational Warrior. It's always a matter of perspective. Get some (perspective.)


It's not though, is it? These intergenerational divides only seem to appear every now-and-again. It seems really striking to me that one is happening now, when nothing like it happened when I was young.

Though I was thinking it might just be a question of numbers. I'm genx (like a good few here, I suspect) and looking at the demographics it seems easy to see why we never had the attention, positive-or-negative, that Millennials get. It's like, huge-bulge for the baby boomers, big slump for GenX numbers, then another great bulge on the other side. Possibly its just about the numbers and nothing deeper than that.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
The one thing that does strike me about a lot of these fights is that they seem to involve the younger intake having less conservative attitudes about gender and sexuality and race, but being if anything less diverse when it comes to class. A lot of it seems to be disputes between middle-class people.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,686
6,195
126
Remember, these people and I include my kids in this, were given trophies for showing up for T-ball, so what do you expect.
For me, I see myself not expecting anything because I have something else, understanding, and namely here that, as I frequently mention, humanity is asleep. This again is an issue where there are two typical reactions to a problem, with a third way uniting the opposites at a higher level of understanding. As you know, I believe we hate ourselves which makes the issue of self esteem front and center as humanities major problem. Low self esteem is the result of comparisons and competition. Who is the best at this and that, with maybe just one winner and countless others depending on the competition, not making the grade. The result is that you can have a few winners who may feel confident in some areas and others who feel like failures. I say again and again that competition is hate.

Remember that I have said that we hate ourselves, don't know it, don't want to know it, and don't want to know we don't want to know. This will be taking place as you read this. And it happens when educators and thinking liberals try to figure out what to do about low self esteem as it impacts child learning. If you feel stupid, you will manifest stupid behavior, so it is important for kids to have some sense of themselves as worth something. But because liberals, like all other people hate themselves and don't know it, don't want to know it and so on, There is no chance in hell they will come up with a real solution to this. Their answer is to make everybody a winner because to see the evil of competition itself, they would need to be aware of their own feelings and how they came to have them. That is the last thing that anybody will do.

Human beings are born with a desire to learn and that desire is beaten out of us as fast as possible. Can't have people who are healthy running around questioning the rules. So the liberals candy coat the issue. They can't teach kids to have real self respect because they don't have it themselves.

Self worth and capacity are latent and natural abilities that grow spontaneously when kids don't get fucked up. Capacity is acquired by achievement and that is like going up hill. You have to do something to achieve something, and trophies are useless to the soul. A successful person is someone who takes joy in fulfilling his potential. The joy of doing is its own reward. We are conditioned by others to feel satisfaction when we pass some test that satisfies them.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
As you know, I believe we hate ourselves which makes the issue of self esteem front and center as humanities major problem. Low self esteem is the result of comparisons and competition. Who is the best at this and that, with maybe just one winner and countless others depending on the competition, not making the grade. The result is that you can have a few winners who may feel confident in some areas and others who feel like failures. I say again and again that competition is hate.

Remember that I have said that we hate ourselves, don't know it, don't want to know it, and don't want to know we don't want to know. This will be taking place as you read this. And it happens when educators and thinking liberals try to figure out what to do about low self esteem as it impacts child learning. If you feel stupid, you will manifest stupid behavior, so it is important for kids to have some sense of themselves as worth something. But because liberals, like all other people hate themselves and don't know it, don't want to know it and so on, There is no chance in hell they will come up with a real solution to this. Their answer is to make everybody a winner because to see the evil of competition itself, they would need to be aware of their own feelings and how they came to have them. That is the last thing that anybody will do.

So very true. Well said.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,686
6,195
126
So what's the issue here? I see old people complaining because they can't say colored people anymore or because they feel like they can't say, "merry Christmas" while the youth is saying, "you can't call people that", and "people celebrate more than just Christmas, you know".

Basically its old people yelling, "get off my lawn", while kids ride their bikes and skateboards up and down the street.

In other words, this is nothing new, you've become your parents and the world is moving on without you.
Did you read the OP's link? It clearly points to the issue being you. What you describe here is exactly the kind of nonsense that creates the problem, blindness to the real issue because you imagine you are being disrespected when in fact it is you who is disrespectful. Listen up you arrogant prick and budding Nazi, get your Panzer off my lawn.

You know perfectly well you couldn't handle me describing your liberal brain defect. This that you posted here is just more of the same crap. You are the old one, my dear righteous fanatic. You are responding with the reptilian part of your brain which evolved hundreds of millions of years ago. Evolved people experience respect for others at whatever stage of evolution. You learned in Kindergarten not to throw sand in others' faces. Well, you were supposed to learn that. Maybe you got treated as a snowflake.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Did you read the OP's link? It clearly points to the issue being you. What you describe here is exactly the kind of nonsense that creates the problem, blindness to the real issue because you imagine you are being disrespected when in fact it is you who is disrespectful. Listen up you arrogant prick and budding Nazi, get your Panzer off my lawn.

You know perfectly well you couldn't handle me describing your liberal brain defect. This that you posted here is just more of the same crap. You are the old one, my dear righteous fanatic. You are responding with the reptilian part of your brain which evolved hundreds of millions of years ago. Evolved people experience respect for others at whatever stage of evolution. You learned in Kindergarten not to throw sand in others' faces. Well, you were supposed to learn that. Maybe you got treated as a snowflake.

How is your day going Moon?
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Sounds like the younger staff members would be happier writing for Weekend Update on SNL.

Newspapers are not meant to be woke. They are not meant to mirror confirmation bias.

Great journalists understand this, and the important role of a free press, which is why the NY Times is a reputable source of news.

It sounds like these younger staffers want to turn the NY Times into a safe space.
 
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Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Great journalists understand this, and the important role of a free press, which is why the NY Times is a reputable source of news.

I've been an ardent reader of NY Times longer than the age of many people these days. What you said above - it is neither fully true nor completely false. It depends on how news is defined. Suffice to say, I have come to realize, that if NY Times is your main source of news, you would never get a feel of what is actually going on in our societies. Instead of that, in subtle and intelligent ways, they would mold your thinking / views to what they consider acceptable and proper. It is not a source which will make you ask questions - what is what great writing is all about.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Sounds like the younger staff members would be happier writing for Weekend Update on SNL.

Newspapers are not meant to be woke. They are not meant to mirror confirmation bias.

Great journalists understand this, and the important role of a free press, which is why the NY Times is a reputable source of news.

It sounds like these younger staffers want to turn the NY Times into a safe space.



The big problem is that the young ones believe they are equally right as the people above them. Experience and wisdom are castaway because they have the truth!
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,124
136
Did you read the OP's link? It clearly points to the issue being you. What you describe here is exactly the kind of nonsense that creates the problem, blindness to the real issue because you imagine you are being disrespected when in fact it is you who is disrespectful. Listen up you arrogant prick and budding Nazi, get your Panzer off my lawn.

You know perfectly well you couldn't handle me describing your liberal brain defect. This that you posted here is just more of the same crap. You are the old one, my dear righteous fanatic. You are responding with the reptilian part of your brain which evolved hundreds of millions of years ago. Evolved people experience respect for others at whatever stage of evolution. You learned in Kindergarten not to throw sand in others' faces. Well, you were supposed to learn that. Maybe you got treated as a snowflake.

 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
The big problem is that the young ones believe they are equally right as the people above them. Experience and wisdom are castaway because they have the truth!
Not that the kids are definitely aware of it, but we know a lot more about cognitive biases now, which certainly affect the value of wisdom and experience.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,124
136


The big problem is that the young ones believe they are equally right as the people above them. Experience and wisdom are castaway because they have the truth!

Is that the problem or is that pretty typical of every generation? What's next? Are you going to complain about kids playing their music too loud? Complaining about the crap kids watch on tv nowadays? Kids don't have respect for their elders anymore?


Lol, fucking old people.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Is that the problem or is that pretty typical of every generation? What's next? Are you going to complain about kids playing their music too loud? Complaining about the crap kids watch on tv nowadays? Kids don't have respect for their elders anymore?


Lol, fucking old people.

How old are you son?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Not that the kids are definitely aware of it, but we know a lot more about cognitive biases now, which certainly affect the value of wisdom and experience.

That bias is on both sides. The issue here is that the "kids" have no wisdom to question if they are right. You cant question hating Nazis, so if you question if people are Nazis, you are a Nazi. Wisdom is what is gained going through life and having your beliefs challenged. Does not make one right, it just helps find the right path. Its not a new issue by any means.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
That bias is on both sides. The issue here is that the "kids" have no wisdom to question if they are right. You cant question hating Nazis, so if you question if people are Nazis, you are a Nazi. Wisdom is what is gained going through life and having your beliefs challenged. Does not make one right, it just helps find the right path. Its not a new issue by any means.
As the kids say: da fuq?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
As the kids say: da fuq?

The younger generation labels people, and then hates that group. If you question if a person truly is part of that group, you get labeled as part of said group and are dismissed. Its the same thing mccarthyism which was also not a new thing.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
The younger generation labels people, and then hates that group. If you question if a person truly is part of that group, you get labeled as part of said group and are dismissed. Its the same thing mccarthyism which was also not a new thing.
Can you cite examples of this phenomena taking place? Is this a college campus thing?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I like how you say this un-ironically as you characterize a whole generation.

Yep, but I also can see that both sides do it. Its just that older people tend to have a little more wisdom. Does not always help, but it often does.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Can you cite examples of this phenomena taking place? Is this a college campus thing?

Um... so mccarthyism. If you are talking about something more recent, find a thread where I was accused of being a water-holder for Nazis for saying that we should not murder people who have Nazi beliefs but have not committed a crime because they might not be a Nazi.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
Um... so mccarthyism. If you are talking about something more recent, find a thread where I was accused of being a water-holder for Nazis for saying that we should not murder people who have Nazi beliefs but have not committed a crime because they might not be a Nazi.

And have you found yourself unemployable as a consequence of someone mouthing off on a web forum?
If you really think that is 'McCarthyism' you don't know what McCarthyism is.
 
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