Generational Tensions Within the New York Times

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
146
Do yourself a favor, and read the entire, relatively short article. Sure, it's appreciably longer than a tweet, but, hey, challenge yourself!

I could try to give you a synopsis, and/or I could comb through it and excerpt enough parts to give you a good idea. I could also cut your meat for you at your next meal. I'm not in the mood to do any of that. And, yes, I well know that this means any number of your will respond and opine in ways that will show you only read enough to acquire a shallow misinterpretation of the situation. Sigh. So be it.

What I will do is give you a quote from the article that largely represents my take on this matter:

As [Times managing editor Joe] Kahn sees it, there’s no “magic-bullet solution,” and he said the Times is making progress on becoming more responsive to the concerns of a much more multi-textured staff than it had 10 years ago. But in terms of how any single employee may be processing the many difficult ramifications of the current era, there was one thing Kahn held firm on. “If you’re a media company, journalism is not about creating safe spaces for people,” he said. “It’s not about democratically reflecting the consensus of the staff about what we say on certain issues. We’re not crowd-sourcing, from our employees, a collective institutional position on Donald Trump.”

Have at me, young 'uns, just please do both of us the favor of taking time from your other many important pursuits to read the entire article before you do.

As John Steinbeck once purportedly said, "Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Reminds me of my old work. The tyranny of the elderly is ceaseless and all encompassing.


One day they'll all die and we'll all rule the pile of scraps that remain.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
That Bari character was on Maher a few weeks ago talking about this

She seems alright. Surprised they have her there.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
That Bari character was on Maher a few weeks ago talking about this

She seems alright. Surprised they have her there.

Lol. She's awful just like that idiot Maher.


Hopefully the times clears this Trump trash from their roster.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,837
9,072
136
Maybe the election of Donald Trump begat a new era of McCarthyism, and perhaps the Women's March, #metoo and Parkland are the necessary reaction to Trump and harbinger of the next great rift in the American culture war. Who knows if we'll get the "Summer of love" all over again.

The only thing I'd agree with is that for posterity's sake, it would be best for the Times and other News media to observe and report objectively and factually, both sides, from without and within, and let history judge the "good" or the "bad". That has always been the mission of a free press.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Maybe the election of Donald Trump begat a new era of McCarthyism, and perhaps the Women's March, #metoo and Parkland are the necessary reaction to Trump and harbinger of the next great rift in the American culture war. Who knows if we'll get the "Summer of love" all over again.

The only thing I'd agree with is that for posterity's sake, it would be best for the Times and other News media to observe and report objectively and factually, both sides, from without and within, and let history judge the "good" or the "bad". That has always been the mission of a free press.

In 20 years Trump supporters will be looked upon in the same way that Communists were in the 50s.


I wouldn't be surprised if the government decides to completely disenfranchise every person who voted for Trump for the safety of the future of the country.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,479
27,750
136
It's a bit different where I work. Management pushes various social programs and newer (mostly younger) workers are like, "that's nice but we have work to do and these programs are taking time away from getting things done."
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,837
9,072
136
In 20 years Trump supporters will be looked upon in the same way that Communists were in the 50s.


I wouldn't be surprised if the government decides to completely disenfranchise every person who voted for Trump for the safety of the future of the country.
LOL, how about a Three Fifths compromise for everyone living in flyover country?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
146
Reminds me of my old work. The tyranny of the elderly is ceaseless and all encompassing.


One day they'll all die and we'll all rule the pile of scraps that remain.

Lol, you sorely need some perspective. This is an age-old and endless cycle. Soon enough, you'll be the very same people you now hate. Don't believe me? You really should have read the entire article, sport. Or if you (think) you did, you should have better taken it in. I'll just leave you with this, right from the very article you may have thought you read:

As Gay Talese once wrote of the 1950s-era Times: “There were philosophical differences dividing older Timesmen who feared that the paper was losing touch with its tradition and younger men who felt trapped by tradition.”)

What goes around, comes around, Mr. Bitter Generational Warrior. It's always a matter of perspective. Get some (perspective.)
 
Last edited:

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
146
The only thing I'd agree with is that for posterity's sake, it would be best for the Times and other News media to observe and report objectively and factually, both sides, from without and within, and let history judge the "good" or the "bad". That has always been the mission of a free press.

That IS the only thing, the main thing, the whole damn thing.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
146
A Baby Boomer hippie instructing the youth of Russia to get generational perspective.
The youth of Russia are statistically the strongest supporters of Putin in their country. They really could use some perspective, you know?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.a8797a1af1ea

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,567
7,622
136
Not just generational. The Journalists are seeing hardcore activists replacing them. That should be frightening to all of us. People with axes to grind are entering a medium that can empower their crusade. The first clue is zero tolerance, the silencing of dissent and other views.

However, there's a poison to cloud our judgement on such matters. Modern conservatism has gone off the rails. How do we beat down such things without becoming a monster ourselves? How are Journalists supposed to maintain their integrity when some things really are terrible and in need of opposition?

We live in interesting times.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
Maybe the election of Donald Trump begat a new era of McCarthyism, and perhaps the Women's March, #metoo and Parkland are the necessary reaction to Trump and harbinger of the next great rift in the American culture war. Who knows if we'll get the "Summer of love" all over again.

The only thing I'd agree with is that for posterity's sake, it would be best for the Times and other News media to observe and report objectively and factually, both sides, from without and within, and let history judge the "good" or the "bad". That has always been the mission of a free press.

In the current political environment, and the types of "information" that influence both sides, what exactly does it mean to both report "factually" and "both sides"? If one party, oh lets say the Republican party, constantly parrots conspiracies like massive illegal voter fraud without proof, reporting both sides would mean simply reporting that Republicans say it's true and Democrats say it's bullshit. Reporting factually would mean you have to report that there is absolutely no evidence to support Republicans claims. Now, lets take that a step further. Should one sides argument being completely unsupported by facts be just another bullet point while reporting both sides? A conspiracy theory unsupported by evidence does not gain credibility simply because an entire political party chooses to promote it. It just becomes a more popular conspiracy theory, no more credible than what Alex Jones puts out on a daily basis. Credible news organizations should stick to facts, and if one political party chooses to dispense with facts in favor of conspiracy theories for some political advantage, then balance is impossible for a reputable news organization to adhere to, and the FACT that a political party is telling blatant lies should actually become the story rather than the policy positions they are arguing about.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,679
6,195
126
Reminds me of my old work. The tyranny of the elderly is ceaseless and all encompassing.


One day they'll all die and we'll all rule the pile of scraps that remain.
Easy Bro, all that happened long ago. You are the pile of scraps that remain, your weltanschauung.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,679
6,195
126
I found this point interesting: One generation came of age where they entered this esteemed institution and tried to find a way to fit into it, and this other generation has an expectation that the institution will change to accommodate them. That’s the essence of the tension.”

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, ‘tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.—Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember’d.

I wonder, if the whining demands of today's offended youth mirror not the petulant emotional immaturity of Donald Trump and all his childish blowhard bluster.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Lol, you sorely need some perspective. This is an age-old and endless cycle. Soon enough, you'll be the very same people you now hate. Don't believe me? You really should have read the entire article, sport. Or if you (think) you did, you should have better taken it in. I'll just leave you with this, right from the very article you may have thought you read:

As Gay Talese once wrote of the 1950s-era Times: “There were philosophical differences dividing older Timesmen who feared that the paper was losing touch with its tradition and younger men who felt trapped by tradition.”)

What goes around, comes around, Mr. Bitter Generational Warrior. It's always a matter of perspective. Get some (perspective.)

Oh I am aware that I am becoming those people. For the time being there is a definitive difference between "them" and "me" so I will continue to point out what an unfair position they have put us (millennials) in. I already find myself annoyed with people younger than me. They have terrible handwriting and can't do basic maths.

I don't see how anyone could disagree with the way I look forward to a time when my generation, myself among them, occupies the vast majority of powerful positions in business and government and possesses a vast majority of the wealth of the nation. We would get rid of this fat old traitor Donald Trump so fast it would make your head spin. Baby boomers? Not so much.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Lol. She's awful just like that idiot Maher.


Hopefully the times clears this Trump trash from their roster.

She is on the Bill Maher show as a specials quest, Bill Maher is a multi millionaire host of his own show on HBO.


you?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,567
7,622
136
I wonder, if the whining demands of today's offended youth mirror not the petulant emotional immaturity of Donald Trump and all his childish blowhard bluster.

Fortunately for us Trump is in his 70s, he won't bother us for long.

Today's "youth" however... if they find themselves corrupted by some equal measure - then we've found ourselves tomorrow's morality police. Cuba didn't have to be right wing to surrender to tyranny and murder. Imagine our future. First Journalism falls to advocacy. Then it advocates the end of its opponents, waiting for a savior to cast down the unworthy. For the next Castro, Mao, or Stalin. Trump captures many headlines today, but he is the least of our problems tomorrow.

Maintaining the integrity of Journalism would help quell a bloodthirsty response when our people put down Trumpism.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,612
24,850
136

They haven't known a government other than one led by him really. Plus United Russia has poured tons of resources into ensuring that age group is properly indoctrinated.. Putin's Kiss is a film that covers this pretty well.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,679
6,195
126
Fortunately for us Trump is in his 70s, he won't bother us for long.

Today's "youth" however... if they find themselves corrupted by some equal measure - then we've found ourselves tomorrow's morality police. Cuba didn't have to be right wing to surrender to tyranny and murder. Imagine our future. First Journalism falls to advocacy. Then it advocates the end of its opponents, waiting for a savior to cast down the unworthy. For the next Castro, Mao, or Stalin. Trump captures many headlines today, but he is the least of our problems tomorrow.

Maintaining the integrity of Journalism would help quell a bloodthirsty response when our people put down Trumpism.

As far as I am concerned, what you are hoping for here is a win in the war against the world out there. By that I mean that there is something that must happen externally, that hope rests on progress or change or preservation of something sacred, however that is defined, change in the environment or climate, but in my opinion, humanity is asleep, and asleep partly because they believe this. In my view, when I say humanity is asleep, I mean programmed and by the condition or culture we grow up in. This means that change is mechanical. I have called this the phenomena that we create what we fear. This means that history sort of swings like a pendulum. The more fear of authoritarian dictatorship Trump creates on the left, the more the left feels entitled to violent resistance. We just saw all of this in the commentaries regarding the death of Winnie Mandela, a hero against racism and oppression who also condoned violence or as in the Maher piece justoh posted with some feminists feeling justified that some innocent men go down in the war against a patriarchal culture.

We create the world and it creates us, and all of it happens in our sleep because we do not understand that we are motivated by fear of pain. Our motivations at an unconscious level are to prevent ourselves from feeling the pain our environment causes us as children, that the real truth about ourselves is that what we feel is evil.

A population of sleeping robots hell bent on denial of their inner reality all the while seeking others to blame for that unconscious pain creates a world full of marching moronic monsters, you and me.

So we struggle to prevent self annihilation, but for how long and how successfully. For all of our efforts the environment is still deteriorating. Unfortunately, in my opinion, those who in the NY Times employee pool who call themselves 'Woke' are as asleep as the rest of us. They are just the pendulum starting to reverse.

In the East there is a thing called the Wheel of Karma from which only the enlightened can escape and it depends on seeing what is called there, I believe, the delusion of Maya.

In short, the only change that is possible for a human being begins and ends with himself or herself.

Only you can prevent forest fires. Only the individual can be free. Only the individual can escape the grasp of the machine. Only the One can see through and beat the Matrix. Only the individual can accept suffering without passing it on to others.

What can spur awakening as far as I can see is the utter rejection that there is hope, the frank admission of the disaster of our condition. Only when the ego faces it utter futility and hopeless condition can real transformation take place. Everybody is enlightened, the problem comes from not knowing it. Our only enemy is the stories we tell ourselves, knowing, believing, having opinions. We were expelled from the Kingdom of heaven as children because we reminded them of where heaven is and they couldn't take it.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
So what's the issue here? I see old people complaining because they can't say colored people anymore or because they feel like they can't say, "merry Christmas" while the youth is saying, "you can't call people that", and "people celebrate more than just Christmas, you know".

Basically its old people yelling, "get off my lawn", while kids ride their bikes and skateboards up and down the street.

In other words, this is nothing new, you've become your parents and the world is moving on without you.
 
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