Generator home back feeding

[Raizinman]

Just purchased an 8750 peak watt / 7000 running watt generator for my house for this winter. It is 13 horsepower and cost $700. It has electric start and 7 outlets and weighs 183 lbs. I don’t expect to use it much. My question is:

During a power outage, can I turn off all my breakers and then plug this generator into my outdoor normal 110v plug outlet (I can construct a power cable that has two male ends) and then at the fuse box, turn on my outside circuit (for the generator) and then turn on whatever other circuit I want powered? This should allow me to switch from the refrigerator to basement freezer, furnace or whatever as needed. Is there any problem with back feeding the electricity like this as long as you are careful?

Yes, I know I can get this hardwired into the fuse box, but I don’t really want to go to that expense and would rather have the ability to switch things to my liking. Does anyone else do this?

 

[master_shake_]

if you don't turn off the main breaker you may kill someone working on the lines.

but i think what you are trying to achieve will work.

extension cords work too.

 

[NetWareHead]

Call an electrician. What you are proposing is dangerous so you can save some money. You can have the proper modifications made to your electrical panel and have individual control (fed from utility ior generator) over each breaker you want

 

[Raizinman]

Yes, smoking is also dangerous. Many things require caution and this does too. Quite often when a power outage hits, you are not fully prepared and you do the best you can. Sometimes back feeding is the best option. If you are going to do it, might as well do it as safe as possible.

I found a site that gives details (safely) on how to use different size generators to back feed into your house.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

 

[NetWareHead]

I can understand your want for flexibility but not when it compromises safety. So many things that can go wrong here.

1. Potential to electrocute linemen or damage neighboring homes which you would be responsible for.

2. You are relying on flipping the main breaker to disconnect from the grid. Something easily flipped on with no mechanical interlock between the grid source and generator source. No safety at all and the nothing preventing you (or someone else) from backfeeding. If someone else uses your generator, are they going to know to not backfeed? You are creating a situation where simple predictable human behavior can kill someone.

3. Even opening the main breaker, you are still connected via the neutral back up to the pole. A true interlock transfer switch disconnects everything.

4. There is nothing to synchonize grid power and generator power if both are online at the same time. If your generator is trying to fight a 1 megawatt power plant, your 13 HP genset is going to blow up.

5. In a 240 volt circuit, power is delivered by 2 120 volt legs. Proper generator operation is to balance the loads on both legs. Putting all the load on one leg is an inefficient usage of a generator, wastes fuel and strains the engine. In a properly installed transfer switch, an electrician relocates circuits to load up both legs of generator power properly.

6. A male to male cord is also called a suicide cord. Should someone unplug the cord or say a child trips over the cord and yanks it from your house, there will be 50 amps of 240 volt power exposed through metal prongs waiting to easily kill somebody. Outlets should only supply power, not cords. There is no safety on those exposed prongs.

7. The wire connected to the generator outlet uses the onboard generator breakers for overcurrent protection. This breaker is the only thing protecting this wire and stopping your home from burning down. I'd trust the breakers in the house panel to stop the wire from melting over the genset's breakers.

8. Speaking of house panel breakers, you would be flowing current through them in reverse which is unsupported.

Do as you wish but if you burn your house down, your insurance company may refuse your claim. If you kill somebody, a court may be debating on whether to charge you with manslaughter or negligent homicide. Install a proper transfer switch with interlock and all of these issues resolve themselves when installed by a good electrician.

 

[herm0016]

what netware said. do it correctly or do no do it at all. way to many ways to kill others or screw up other peoples stuff, if it was only a danger to you and your home, i would say go for it!

oh holy hell... don't ever do this, better yet, don't do anything this page says. ever.

http://www.tcscooters.com/graphic/220plug.JPG

 

[TheBigEarl]

What you are proposing is reckless, negligent, and dangerous. You could end up damaging your electrical system or even catching your house on fire by overloading your circuits and/or panel, or worse yet, injuring or killing someone in your home or a line maintenance worker when your "suicide cord" gets pulled out while the generator is running or you backfeed onto the grid during repair work.

You can buy the proper equipment like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance...rcuit-Outdoor-Transfer-Switch-R306A/206556343
for hooking up the generator to your house for 250-350 dollars, and install it yourself if you are reasonably handy.

Don't get someone killed for being too cheap to spend 300 bucks.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Learn something new every day..... I've been using the 220v feed from my generator and sending it to a dryer plug. When the electric goes just flip the main and plug it in. Been doing it for over a decade never realizing how dumb it was.

Thank you for sharing folks. Now where is that phone number for my electrician.....

 

[NutBucket]

The problem isn't the cost of the transfer switch but rather the thousands of dollar most electricians will charge to install one.

 

[RearAdmiral]

/Shares youtube link to Let the Bodies hit the floor.

 

[natto fire]

The problem isn't the cost of the transfer switch but rather the thousands of dollar most electricians will charge to install one.

You could always call up a Craigslist handy hack. Residential electrical work is not extremely complicated. Then again, you lose the warranty, the ability to pull permits, and might just be downright illegal in some states with the trunk slamming hack.

If you want work done by a skilled tradesman who has a legitimate business, and the costs associated with running one, then yeah it costs more.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[boomhower]

If your house is a typical house you can buy a Reliance Controls switch and do it yourself. If you can't watch the DVD and install it you either have an unusual install or have zero handy man skills. Check your locality for permits, mine needs none.

 

[boomerang]

The problem isn't the cost of the transfer switch but rather the thousands of dollar most electricians will charge to install one.

Thousands to install a transfer switch? Where do you live, Greenwich, Beverly Hills?

 

[Joe C]

Learn something new every day..... I've been using the 220v feed from my generator and sending it to a dryer plug. When the electric goes just flip the main and plug it in. Been doing it for over a decade never realizing how dumb it was.

Thank you for sharing folks. Now where is that phone number for my electrician.....

The real danger is forgetting to flip the main breaker while using the genny. So, to avoid forgetting they make an interlock kit so you can't forget. They are panel specific so make sure you get the correct one.

https://www.interlockkit.com/

 

[Red Squirrel]

*IF* you know what you're doing, a suicide cord will work. Turn the MAIN breaker off FIRST. Turn off the breaker you are hooking into (ex: if plugging to outside outlet turn off breaker for that outlet/circuit). Plug the generator in, start it, then turn on the breaker that you turned off (NOT the main, that one stays OFF). Everything on that leg should now have power from the generator.

As a side note, use a multimeter to see if the generator does anything weird in respect to ground. The ground should either be floating, or bonded to neutral. If it is not floating nor bonded to neutral then do not connect it at all. It sounds bad, but I know some inverters do weird things where ground to neutral is like 60 volts, then to hot is -60 (which changes at 60 cycles). If you try to connect it you basically short it out because ground and neutral at the panel are connected.

Personally I would not do any of this, it's botchy and prone to error. Get a transfer switch or an interlock kit. I'd lean towards the transfer switch, one that can do 120/240 split phase so you can use the 120/240v outlet of your generator if there is one.

But if you're going to do the suicide cord at very least do it properly and make sure the main breaker remains off the entire time.

 

[Raizinman]

When backfeeding.

You become so accustomed to the lights and heat in your house, that you fail to notice when the electricity comes back on. Also we attracted many neighbors who did not have a generator and came over to get warm and have coffee.

 

[John Connor]

Yes, smoking is also dangerous. Many things require caution and this does too. Quite often when a power outage hits, you are not fully prepared and you do the best you can. Sometimes back feeding is the best option. If you are going to do it, might as well do it as safe as possible.

I found a site that gives details (safely) on how to use different size generators to back feed into your house.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

Website is parked.

 

[JEDI]

Learn something new every day..... I've been using the 220v feed from my generator and sending it to a dryer plug. When the electric goes just flip the main and plug it in. Been doing it for over a decade never realizing how dumb it was.

Thank you for sharing folks. Now where is that phone number for my electrician.....

ahh.. dryer plug is 240v?

How does that work?
the 240v from the dryer plug travels to the panel then the 240v is split into two 120v by the duplex breaker into your electrical panel?
so now you're powering both 120v legs of your house at once?

how did you connect the 220v from generator into your dryer plug? male to male plug?

 

[herm0016]

ahh.. dryer plug is 240v?

How does that work?
the 240v from the dryer plug travels to the panel then the 240v is split into two 120v by the duplex breaker into your electrical panel?
so now you're powering both 120v legs of your house at once?

how did you connect the 220v from generator into your dryer plug? male to male plug?

220 rms. 240 peak. Same as 110/120. Yep, that's how it works. "Both legs"? Both legs are powered normally. Not sure what you are asking? Generators can produce 2 legs just like your normal power.

 

[iwajabitw]

The Reliance from HD is easy to install. First winter after this house was built I bought a 10,000W and wired the transfer switch up in the garage, fished 10/3 throught the attic to the back porch and wired up the plug to keep the generator in the back of the house, fenced in with dogs, while in use. Its only 30amps, enough for the fridge, freezer, microwave, and some lights and plugs in the most used rooms.

I know for a fact around here the utility company will knock on the door of those with generators to see who the person is back feeding the grid with a male/male type plug. If you don't have a transfer switch in place, they pull your meter and you get to deal with the fire marshal and pay all the deposits and fines for getting your services turned back on after it takes a few weeks to get an electrician to pull the permit, fix what ever got sighted, then that has to be inspected, possibly the fire marshal to sign off on it. My neighbor found out the hard way and it cost him several thousand dollars, because they inspect the entire home before signing off on the utilities. He was feeding with the dryer plug and was not causing the back feed, don't know who was, or what that cost them. I showed them the transfer switch, and the utility guy said thanks for doing it right. Do it right the first time.

 

[JEDI]

220 rms. 240 peak. Same as 110/120. Yep, that's how it works. "Both legs"? Both legs are powered normally. Not sure what you are asking? Generators can produce 2 legs just like your normal power.

lets say you're doing male-male plug from the generator to an outside outlet (120v).
if that outlet is on the 'A' phrase, then the only things that will get powered up are the breakers connected to the 'A' phrase?

ie: circuit #1,3,5,7,9,etc

 

[Red Squirrel]

lets say you're doing male-male plug from the generator to an outside outlet (120v).
if that outlet is on the 'A' phrase, then the only things that will get powered up are the breakers connected to the 'A' phrase?

ie: circuit #1,3,5,7,9,etc

That's correct. If you want to power both sides you need to connect the two together, this can be done at a dryer plug or the panel. You get a thick piece of wire and jumper the two. Don't forget it when you turn the main back on!!! If you do forget it, you'll be reminded fairly quick about it when you do turn the power back on.

I have an electrical panel that is basically wired that way:



Notice at the top how it's jumpered together. That is somewhat temporary though, when I upgrade my main panel to something physically bigger with room to add conduits/big cables coming out, I will run a proper feed to this one. This particular panel obviously can't do 240, as it's only wired by one leg of the upstream panel.

 

[NL5]

1 and 2 are on a
3 and 4 are on b
5 and 6 are on a
etc....

I hope those 14's feeding that panel are on a 15 amp breaker. That panel is a really bad idea...

 

[who?]

Whenever you have the generator going lock the main switch on the outside of the house in the off position with a padlock. When the neighbors appear to have power again turn the generator off unplug it and only then do you turn power to the house back on.

 

[SNC]

It is really sad to see how many people are willing to risk someones life to save a few bucks.
My only hope is that it would be one of your own and not the lineman working his ass off to get the power on for everyone else.