Get Rid of Police Unions

[touchstone]

Those laws exist for the same reason good Samaritan laws exist. If you destroy that, then you destroy all legal protection for people who act in good faith but end up completely fucking up. The end result will be a nation so hesitant to do anything due to legal liability that people will literally sit and do nothing.



I don't think it's possible to make cops lose the same protection that everyone else has. I just don't see how that would work out. To me, if you get rid of good faith, that will only hurt the vast majority of people who use that as a shield to act in a responsible and sometimes pivotal way to save lives.

I certainly understand your concerns though... I mean, if you see this as a shield for criminal activity, why not remove the shield and expose it? This isn't a shield designed to do that though and it's a really important thing for everyone to have.

Why do doctors still perform surgery, when they could be sued if they screw up? Why do pilots fly planes, when they could be charged with killing hundreds if they screw up? In fact, pilots are by default grounded after any kind of accident, and are very very easily fired and charged if any wrongdoing is discovered.

Are cops so greedy and cowardly that they won't do their job unless they are not only payed ridiculous salaries, but also given special protections against prosecution? It sounds like you cops are a bunch of lazy, scared, greedy douchebags.

 

[cbrunny]

Their mission of the is to serve the best interests of their members -- that part is good. The problem is that many unions interpret that mandate to mean "protect members at any cost, including ones that are really bad apples". If they all understood that getting rid of the bad apples is in fact beneficial to both the employer AND the union members, they would serve a much more useful function and be more accepted as beneficial in general. By shielding crappy employees from consequences, unions have significantly hurt their own credibility and image.

I could not agree more.

 

[mizzou]

Why do doctors still perform surgery, when they could be sued if they screw up? Why do pilots fly planes, when they could be charged with killing hundreds if they screw up? In fact, pilots are by default grounded after any kind of accident, and are very very easily fired and charged if any wrongdoing is discovered.

Are cops so greedy and cowardly that they won't do their job unless they are not only payed ridiculous salaries, but also given special protections against prosecution? It sounds like you cops are a bunch of lazy, scared, greedy douchebags.

Because they are protected with specific liability insurance and the fact that they are also trained, certified, and board approved. Doctors have several layers of insulation, and even then they are still not completely protected. Nobody is completely protected. How do you know about pilots being fired easily? Hell, most pilots don't even fly the planes anymore and if they are found to have crashed them, usually something crazy had happened (missed training, intentional suicide dive). The captain of the Costa Concordia was also charged with a crime, although in a different country, because of his severe recorded acts of complete negligence.

Malpractice lawsuits often end with no founding of malpractice, much like how police officers charged with their version of malpractice, are not found in that either.

I'm not sure you understand how lawsuits and civil liability work. Protections exist for those who act in good faith of the law. If you are found to not act in good faith, there are NO protections and you can be successfully sued.

 

[bshole]

Fucking Walker, he butchers my wife's teacher's union and leaves the corrupt police union completely alone.

 

[mizzou]

Fucking Walker, he butchers my wife's teacher's union and leaves the corrupt police union completely alone.

lol

 

[cabri]

Fucking Walker, he butchers my wife's teacher's union and leaves the corrupt police union completely alone.

Maybe the teacher's union was a bigger threat to the public.

After all, which worked hard on the recall(s) that you supported (and luckily failed :whiste:) Waste of taxpayer funds due to sour grapes

 

[Darwin333]

Because they are protected with specific liability insurance and the fact that they are also trained, certified, and board approved. Doctors have several layers of insulation, and even then they are still not completely protected. Nobody is completely protected. How do you know about pilots being fired easily? Hell, most pilots don't even fly the planes anymore and if they are found to have crashed them, usually something crazy had happened (missed training, intentional suicide dive). The captain of the Costa Concordia was also charged with a crime, although in a different country, because of his severe recorded acts of complete negligence.

Malpractice lawsuits often end with no founding of malpractice, much like how police officers charged with their version of malpractice, are not found in that either.

I'm not sure you understand how lawsuits and civil liability work. Protections exist for those who act in good faith of the law. If you are found to not act in good faith, there are NO protections and you can be successfully sued.

If cops were forced to carry their own liability insurance do you think "Robo cop" would have still been insurable and therefore still be a cop?

 

[Blackjack200]

The Baltimore police officers’ union says the state’s attorney has made a rush to judgment by bringing charges against six officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

Attorney Michael Davey, whose firm was hired by the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 3, says he is representing one of the officers, but is speaking on behalf of all of them.

Davey says he has never seen such a hurried rush to file charges and the officers did nothing wrong.

Earlier Friday, State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby declared that Gray’s arrest was illegal and his treatment amounted to murder and manslaughter.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...more-protests-rallies-planned-across-the-u-s/

 

[soundforbjt]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...more-protests-rallies-planned-across-the-u-s/

Illegal arrest = nothing wrong?

 

[Annisman*]

Unions protect bad employees. Get rid of unions & get rid of bad employees. Not exclusive to Police.

I have found this to be very accurate.

 

[Darwin333]

Illegal arrest = nothing wrong?

I like the "has never seen such a hurried rush to file charges" part. How long has this man been dead for? "Hurried rush to file charges" about the murder of a guy who has been buried for days?

 

[SlickSnake]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394743/its-time-take-police-unions-lucy-morrow-caldwell

I think the title says it all, I don't see how these police unions serve the public interest, and I don't seen any reason to keep them around.

Take away the six figure salaries, the rich pensions, the $50,000 cruisers, the guns, give them funny little hats and remind them who they serve. I'm ready for the lower property tax bill.

Police unions and their corrupt lawyers have been systematically destroying truthful and honest policing by covering up bad cops and their actions and forcing police departments to keep bad cops employed since they first started.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...nions-keep-abusive-cops-on-the-street/383258/

 

[bshole]

Maybe the teacher's union was a bigger threat to the public.

After all, which worked hard on the recall(s) that you supported (and luckily failed :whiste:) Waste of taxpayer funds due to sour grapes

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. The jackholes of the Republican party are chasing all the good teachers out of the profession while protecting the exorbitant pay packages and Stasi tactics of the police.

 

[glenn1]

Why do doctors still perform surgery, when they could be sued if they screw up? Why do pilots fly planes, when they could be charged with killing hundreds if they screw up? In fact, pilots are by default grounded after any kind of accident, and are very very easily fired and charged if any wrongdoing is discovered.

Are cops so greedy and cowardly that they won't do their job unless they are not only payed ridiculous salaries, but also given special protections against prosecution? It sounds like you cops are a bunch of lazy, scared, greedy douchebags.

Because unlike police, doctors and pilots aren't normally in an adversarial position to their "clients." Surely you can understand the rationale of why there are different standards for those who provide a service in a voluntary transaction, and those who are asked to stop people from committing illegal activity including sometimes in the act? Offering such protections to those acting on the public's behalf have a longstanding tradition in the U.S. and for a reason.

 

[sm625]

People would do well to learn and understand the differences between a public and a private union. The taxpayer cannot be on one side of the collective bargaining process.

 

[cabri]

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. The jackholes of the Republican party are chasing all the good teachers out of the profession while protecting the exorbitant pay packages and Stasi tactics of the police.

Please explain how breaker the power of the teachers' union is chasing good teachers out.

Bad teachers are no longer able to be protected from their actions. :thumbsup:

Has the salary structure been altered?

 

[fskimospy]

Please explain how breaker the power of the teachers' union is chasing good teachers out.

Bad teachers are no longer able to be protected from their actions. :thumbsup:

Has the salary structure been altered?

Here's a trick: define a 'good teacher'. Then we can know! (this is harder than you might think)

If you think preventing teachers from collectively bargaining makes teaching a more attractive profession you are fooling yourself.

 

[glenn1]

Please explain how breaker the power of the teachers' union is chasing good teachers out.

Bad teachers are no longer able to be protected from their actions. :thumbsup:

Has the salary structure been altered?

When a teacher's students are failing we're supposed to understand it's "hard to evaluate teacher performance" or "it's the parents' fault" and not hold it against them or adjust their compensation accordingly. When a teacher's students are doing well then we're supposed to understand it's completely to the teacher's credit and we should reward them accordingly. It's the ultimate in one-way accountability.

 

[Darwin333]

Police unions and their corrupt lawyers have been systematically destroying truthful and honest policing by covering up bad cops and their actions and forcing police departments to keep bad cops employed since they first started.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...nions-keep-abusive-cops-on-the-street/383258/

Holy shit, even the bastards that DO get fired, which is rare enough as it is, end up getting their jobs back thanks to their unions. No wonder the blue wall is so strong, you rat another cop out and they have a good chance to get their jobs back while your career is definitely over.

 

[Mai72]

I really think smartphones and other devices are going to change the way the police conduct themselves. We can expect more civil unrest like Baltimore and Ferguson. It will get so bad that the police will have no choice but to change their policy towards bad cops.

Until then we just need to be patient.

 

[touchstone]

Police unions and their corrupt lawyers have been systematically destroying truthful and honest policing by covering up bad cops and their actions and forcing police departments to keep bad cops employed since they first started.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...nions-keep-abusive-cops-on-the-street/383258/

Holy Sh*t that is insane.





Here is one I found interesting:

"In Ballinger, Texas, a policeman was fired for uttering racial slurs. But "there was a procedural error in the termination paperwork filed," so he got his gun and badge back. (It isn't clear if a police union played any role in this particular case.)

I also have my doubts that the police union played a role in that particular case, given the locale.

 

[Darwin333]

When a teacher's students are failing we're supposed to understand it's "hard to evaluate teacher performance" or "it's the parents' fault" and not hold it against them or adjust their compensation accordingly. When a teacher's students are doing well then we're supposed to understand it's completely to the teacher's credit and we should reward them accordingly. It's the ultimate in one-way accountability.

You must be able to comprehend that teachers are not the sole person responsible for a student learning. I don't think you can find a study one that says that parental involvement doesn't play a huge roll in their childs education.

Now I am all for performance based evaluation but as far as teachers go we would need to come up with a way to include those variables when deciding if the teacher is doing the best job they can. A teacher in an inner-city school whose job is obviously much harder from the start be evaluated the same as a teacher in a very affluent district?

 

[Darwin333]

I really think smartphones and other devices are going to change the way the police conduct themselves. We can expect more civil unrest like Baltimore and Ferguson. It will get so bad that the police will have no choice but to change their policy towards bad cops.

Until then we just need to be patient.

Personally I don't believe the above. It's still damn near impossible to hold them personally accountable and as shown in a previous post, even when they lose their jobs their unions often get them back with back pay. Basically they got a very long vacation for fucking up. Hell I have very little faith that the Baltimore killers will see any real jail time.

It's going to take a major change in who investigates the police and how they are prosecuted, making cops truly accountable for their actions to enact any significant change. The only thing all these camera phones might help with is getting innocent people off of bogus charges.

 

[Mai72]

Personally I don't believe the above. It's still damn near impossible to hold them personally accountable and as shown in a previous post, even when they lose their jobs their unions often get them back with back pay. Basically they got a very long vacation for fucking up. Hell I have very little faith that the Baltimore killers will see any real jail time.

It's going to take a major change in who investigates the police and how they are prosecuted, making cops truly accountable for their actions to enact any significant change. The only thing all these camera phones might help with is getting innocent people off of bogus charges.

Nothing is going to happen to those Baltimore police officers who murdered Freddie Gray. It's going to be nearly impossible to convict those cops. We just don't know what took place when Freddie was placed in the police van.

1) Did they intend to harm Freddie?
2) Was Freddie already injured before he was placed in the police van?
3) Did Freddie harm himself in the police van? Supposedly he was banging his head on the van's metal wall.
4) Three of the six officers are black. You can't say race was a motivating factor.

Bad police officers do find themselves fired from their job, and some even find themselves in jail. Take David Romeo. He's a cop that lives in my neighborhood. He was a sergeant for the Wildwood police department for many years. He was a short guy who had Napoleon complex. Anyway, he was sentenced for 5 years for kicking 2 suspects in the face.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_e3b38578-64d9-11df-828b-001cc4c03286.html

And his conviction was held up:

http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/...ice+sergeant+david+romeo039s+conviction+holds

He lost everything. His pension, pay, health benefits. He now has a criminal record. In this case justice prevailed.