getting 6800GT

[frank84]

my system...

AMD64 3000+ (no OC)
1G of PC3200
Dell 2005FPW

and I am getting 6800GT on it..

 

[akshayt]

wait for next gen.

also you can take the card but wait for next gen

 

[GlacierFreeze]

No, video cards make the biggest difference in games. Don't worry about saving $50 bucks by going with that proc and putting it towards a better video card. I should have done the same.

 

[JokerRulez]

Hey there wonho84,

I have a very similar rig so I can comment intelligently on your question (this is not meant as a slight to anyone).

My rig is:
AMD64 3200+
ASUS K8VSE Deluxe Socket 754
2x512MB DDR3200 System Mem
BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC
200GB SATA

I have seen review after review of the GT cards. In every case the system specs are in excess of mine (usually socket 939) and the tests at 1024x768 are all CPU limited where it trails off for the high end settings as the load is put on the card. I am finding that my performance is significantly lower than the test scores at the same setting. The only difference is the rest of my system. Conclussion: I am experiencing CPU limiting problems, or bottlenecking as you appropriately labeled it, far beyond the test machines. As a consequence I am not getting the maximum performance out of my card.

So what does this mean in the real world. The game world?

I play Doom 3 at 1600x1200 with all settings at Very High, the texture quality at High (not Ultra, a setting that causes stuttering/pauses on all non-512MB video cards) but with AA turned off. The game looks amazing and I am able to walk around just fine and have very few issues while fighting. Yet, if things get a bit intense I can see the framerate drop into the teens and I have an issue or two. Not nearly so bad that I am willing to turn down the quality settings yet it is noticeable.

So, yes you will experience bottlenecking with your current 3000+. Did you get socket 939 with that? If so you could wait a year and with just a couple hundred dollars de-bottleneck the CPU with an upgrade.

Hope this helps.

Joker

Edited for clarification.

 

[RussianSensation]

No you are fine.

Joker, see if reducing image quality improves framerates, but keep the same resolution (minimum frames, and reduces choppiness). If it does you are actually graphics card limited.

 

[JokerRulez]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
No you are fine.

Joker, see if reducing image quality improves framerates, but keep the same resolution (minimum frames, and reduces choppiness). If it does you are actually graphics card limited.

No, no. Let me clarify. The reviews I have seen use rigs that are much faster than mine. Those rigs are CPU limited only at low settings in the game. When the detail is cranked up the graphics card starts to take on more of the load and can't handle it perfectly any more. Ergo, the fastest machines on the market are still limited by the video cards out there.

What I am saying is when I put the same quality video card into my slightly slower rig I did not get the same performance. Therefore, I am experience a greater degree of CPU bottlenecking than the reviewed test machines are. I have partial bottlenecking in my video card as even those extreme high-end machines do but I have some bottlenecking in my CPU as well.

Clearer?

Joker

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: JokerRulez

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
No you are fine.

Joker, see if reducing image quality improves framerates, but keep the same resolution (minimum frames, and reduces choppiness). If it does you are actually graphics card limited.

No, no. Let me clarify. The reviews I have seen use rigs that are much faster than mine. Those rigs are CPU limited only at low settings in the game. When the detail is cranked up the graphics card starts to take on more of the load and can't handle it perfectly any more. Ergo, the fastest machines on the market are still limited by the video cards out there.

What I am saying is when I put the same quality video card into my slightly slower rig I did not get the same performance. Therefore, I am experience a greater degree of CPU bottlenecking than the reviewed test machines are. I have partial bottlenecking in my video card as even those extreme high-end machines do but I have some bottlenecking in my CPU as well.

Clearer?

Joker

Well, if the gpu is bottlenecking and the cpu is bottlenecking, then it's not really a bottleneck, it's just that the cpu and the gfx card can't handle the load. If you lower the resolution and the slowdown goes away, then it just mans your gfx card can't handle the higher resolutions well. If the slowdown still persists, then you know you have a cpu bottleneck.

 

[coomar]

amd64 cpu (1.4, 1.8, 2.2) bottleneck on gpu:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/index0502.html

looking at this, at 1600x1200, the 6800 gpu is not cpu limited, rocks at 37.6

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: akshayt
wait for next gen.

also you can take the card but wait for next gen

so when g70 comes out your going to say wait for g80 r600?

 

[ddogg]

Originally posted by: wonho84
my system...

AMD64 3000+ (no OC)
1G of PC3200
Dell 2005FPW

and I am getting 6800GT on it..

there would be some bottlenecking on that machine....get a 6600GT instead unless ur really into a lot of gaming

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

Sapphire X800XL Ultimate or passively cooled from Gigabyte.

 

[Sentential]

Yes to some extent it will be bottlenecked by the CPU, but overall any high end card will be so its a moot point. I'd go ahead and get it

 

[JokerRulez]

Originally posted by: coomar
amd64 cpu (1.4, 1.8, 2.2) bottleneck on gpu:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/index0502.html

looking at this, at 1600x1200, the 6800 gpu is not cpu limited, rocks at 37.6

Again, the test machines in your link are significantly faster than my rig. A socket 754 3700+ yields considerably better performance than my 3200+, and the socket 939 4000+ is even better.

I cannot tap the full potential of my GeForce 6800 GT OC because my CPU is not fast enough. Or at least, I am not experiencing the framerates I would like to from my video card because of the limitations imposed by my merely adequate CPU. I would unlock better performance in games if I upgraded my processor.

The same would be true for the original poster of this thread with his 3000+ AMD 64.

Joker

 

[JokerRulez]

Originally posted by: munky

Well, if the gpu is bottlenecking and the cpu is bottlenecking, then it's not really a bottleneck, it's just that the cpu and the gfx card can't handle the load. If you lower the resolution and the slowdown goes away, then it just mans your gfx card can't handle the higher resolutions well. If the slowdown still persists, then you know you have a cpu bottleneck.

Munky, you are using too narrow a definition of 'bottlenecking'. One definition of a bottleneck is "a hindrance to progress or production". It can be more than one pathway causing multiple bottlenecks. At the highest quality settings on Doom 3 I am experiencing bottlenecking on both my CPU and my Video Card. The question that really should be asked is what can I do about it? Which part can I de-bottleneck?

The answer is I can de-bottleneck my CPU far easier than I can de-bottleneck my video card.

Think of it as a series of pipes transporting water to a destination, say a swimming pool. If two pipes are small and two are large then the most significant bottlenecking is occuring in the two small pipes. That does not, however, mean that it is not possible to increase capacity on the two large pipes (you could give them even better throughput). Therefore, you are significantly bottlenecked by your two small pipes and less bottlenecked by the two large pipes. It is all about capacity of throughput. Spending some time working in a chemical plant will clarify these concepts further. As soon as you de-bottleneck one aspect you have created a new bottleneck in another aspect.

Now one definition does indicate the neck of a bottle is the narrowest part of the bottle. So, in the strictest definition there can be only one bottleneck. Engineers never think in such narrow views though instead relying on the previous definition I listed in this post. Instead they ask the question how can we use the total system to increase throughput? In this case we really have multiple systems working together to form one larger system. The CPU, motherboard, memory, and video card all work together as one system to create Doom 3 (along with the code riding above the operating system). In my case, I need to upgrade my CPU as it is the narrowest part of the bottle for me, yet I am also experiencing a bottleneck effect with my video card, as you indicated.

Joker

Edited for content clarification

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: JokerRulez

Originally posted by: coomar
amd64 cpu (1.4, 1.8, 2.2) bottleneck on gpu:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/index0502.html

looking at this, at 1600x1200, the 6800 gpu is not cpu limited, rocks at 37.6

Again, the test machines in your link are significantly faster than my rig. A socket 754 3700+ yields considerably better performance than my 3200+, and the socket 939 4000+ is even better.

i think he was referring to this page which shows almost no difference between the cpus tested except in sli

 

[JokerRulez]

Yeah, probably.

Again, the machines listed are so much faster than mine they probably are NOT CPU limited. Where I am.

Thanks,

Joker

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: JokerRulez
Yeah, probably.

Again, the machines listed are so much faster than mine they probably are NOT CPU limited. Where I am.

Thanks,

Joker

How is that true exactly? A64 3200+ on s754 is about as fast as A64 3000+ on s939 (ie. 2000mhz). S939 only gains 200+ rating points and we know thats a bad estimate since A64 3400+ often outperforms 3500+ on s939. There is no difference between PCIe or AGP 6800GT. So you can compare whichever charts you want and compare your cpu to 1800mhz processor they have. Your cpu is faster than either of their systems at 1800mhz. Notice how 1800mhz is performing just as well as 2200 and 2400 mhz A64 given that today's games are primarily gpu limited (far cry, hl2, doom3). The link provided to you clearly shows that you get 97% performance with 6800GT using A64 S939 1800mhz which coresponds to 3000+. You have 3200+. Did you look at PCIe benches at 1600x1200? They also show that cpu speed doesnt matter at high graphics settings.

Guys you have to realize in lower resolutions, any high end graphics card will be bottlenecked for another 2-3 years. But what matters is cpu bottlenecking for any cpu above 3.0/3000+. Come on guys look here:

Doom 3
Far Cry
HL2
IL2

The minor performance differences you see here will in no way have any effect on the actual playability factor. Once you enable AA/AF, cpu speed is almost irrelevant today. This goes to show high-end cpus today do not allow a gamer to gain anything in terms of playability factor since the graphics cards find themselves not keeping up (or keeping up well enough that cpu speed doesnt matter).

I provided links HERE how P4 2.4ghz and X800Pro are much faster than P4 3.2ghz and 9800xt. Notice at 1600x1200 where both systems struggle, it is still primarily a gpu limited situation.

That is why we need R520 and G70 first and P4 10ghz later. Yeah sure there will always be minor cpu bottlenecking, but even at most with A64 3000+ you are looking at 10% which wont affect playability vs. FX55 even. That is why I dont get why people keep buying A64 3500+ and throw 6600GTs in there......i just dont get it.

Given the originator of this thread has 2005 monitor, he will surely play at 1600x1200 resolution (or whatever the high-end one is for that monitor). However recommended he gets 6600GT =>>>>> Now look at performance of 6800GT vs. 6600GT on a P4 3.4ghz. We also know A64 3000+ is a better contender at gaming so it shouldnt be far off P4 3.4ghz:

Pacific Fighters - 47.7 vs. 25.7 frames - 1600x1200 4AA/8AF
Far Cry - 60.6 vs. 34.2 - 1280x1024 4AA/8AF
Chronicles of Riddick - 60.9 vs. 29.6 - 1024x768 4AA/8AF (notice this game is so intense even 6800GT is struggling for higher settings
Doom 3 - 52.1 vs. 25.9 - 1280x1024 4AA/8AF

Clearly 6600GT is 2x slower. In these cases, unplayable.

 

[Chosonman]

"getting 6800GT

will my amd64 3000+ will be a bottleneck?"

No you are not CPU limited. Not even close.

 

[imported_DaveA]

omfg cpu limitted! oh noes!! come on people get a grip already. im running a athlon xp 2700+ (2.17GHz) at stock speeds with a 6800 GT. I get around 60fps in hl2 with dips down to 35fps never any lower. this is at 1280x1024 4xaa 16xaf perfectly fine. ofcourse i do plan on upgrading to athlon 64 dual core shortly though.

but come on people a amd 64 3000+ isnt going to bottleneck a 6800 gt.

 

[artemedes]

So you already ordered it? If so put it in and enjoy your nice upgrade. Only you can decide if it is "good enough". Even if it turns out to be "cpu limited" you will most likely find that all your games play great. I don't know the specs of that monitor so just guessing.


My personal experince is similar to to DaveA. I am running an AGP 6800 GT OC on an Athlon xp 2400 + mobile. It was a huge upgrade from my old TI4400. HUGE! I play an older game with a fried called Battlezone 2. When doing multiplayer it shows you the FPS of each player. With the TI4400 it would chug below 30fps often, now with the 6800 GT the FPS sticks right at my monitors refresh rate, no dips either. For comparison, my friend has a faster cpu and more memory, but shows he averages 57fps with dips below 30 on a slower vid card. I don't have any trouble playing any modern games (1280x1024 8xs).

Point is that for most modern games the vid card is equally important as the cpu, and many would argue that the vid card is the most important part of a modern gaming computer.

 

[vitamalt]

Quite right though if you're into sims the CPU will be more of a factor but either way an A64 3000+ is no slouch by any means.

 

[Fern]

No bottleneck. No worries.

I have a 6800GT, ran it with my CPU/FSB at various settings. I can't see a difference in games whether my CPU/FSB is set at 2500+ speeds at FSB 166/333mhz or at 3200+ speeds at 200/400mhz FSB. No matter, the card plows through games like D3, Far Cry or HL2.

Enjoy the card,

Fern

 

[thegimp03]

Uh, people are crazy to say your machine is cpu limited. You could throw any card in there and you'd be fine.

 

[Amplifier]

Not to mention that a 1.8ghz a64 will go to 2.25 with 0 effort .

 

[aka1nas]

yeah if its a winchester or venice you should be able to get it to 3500+ speed with the stock cooler and minimal if any extra voltage. My 3000+ is sitting here at 2.5Ghz and it only needs about 1.5v to hit that on air.