Getting U3011, recommend me a setup

[aphelion02]

I sold my gtx580 a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the 7970 launch, but I've been a bit disappointed by its performance / price and my course of action isn't so clear cut. Currently I am using a borrowed 560ti from a friend but that clearly isn't a long term solution. To top things off I am getting a U3011 in a few days so I will obviously need a more powerful setup.

The majority of games I play are a mixed bag, for the next 6 months the majority of my time is probably going to be SWTOR, Skyrim (with high res texture mods), Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, and Witcher 2. That said I do want playable performance if I occasionally fire up the Crysis or Metro 2033 or get some game just to try it out.

Here are the options I am considering now:

1. Get a 7970 / 7950 at launch, depending on price/perf and unlock capabilities. I am hoping that the 7950 will be to next generation what the 6950 is now.

2. 6950 crossfire, probably used for around $450-$500.

3. Scrap by with some used mid ranged card (think 5850 level) until Kepler launches. This will be hoping that Kepler either comes fairly early or will be a large jump in performance.

4. Wait for 7870 and crossfire that. Lots of unknowns regarding price / performance / launch timing.

5. Other? I'm open to suggestions. I could even buy a used gtx 580 for a similar price to what I sold.

Edit: Note that crossfire options would mean I would have to give up my soundcard due to shitty mobo layout that puts the PCIe X1 slot right beneath the primary PCIe X16 slot, really blocking air intake.

 

[Puppies04]

I doubt you need a crossfire/SLI solution for a single monitor even though it is high res. What exactly was disappointing you about the 580??

 

[aphelion02]

Nothing, I was expecting a bigger jump from the 7xxx series and sold it in advance. FWIW I actually made a profit on that card (initial pricing mistake from Amazon), so I am not too torn up about it.

 

[badb0y]

This thread has 7970 written all over it. It was specifically made for high resolution gaming.

 

[Grooveriding]

7950 Crossfire

 

[tviceman]

I would be surprised if the hd7950 will have unlocking capabilities. At $400-450, if it's about equal to a gtx580 and easily unlocks to an hd7970, AMD would be entirely killing their premium price strategy with the hd7970. But then again, if they do allow for unlocks, it will be great for consumers!

3. Scrap by with some used mid ranged card (think 5850 level) until Kepler launches. This will be hoping that Kepler either comes fairly early or will be a large jump in performance.

Absolutely any specific info floating around about Kepler right now is pure speculation. There has not been anything officially confirmed regarding performance and release date. Not to discourage you, but if you want to upgrade sooner than later, there is never a better time than now. If you think getting something temporary to tide you over could put you in a better position upgrade wise, then do that.

 

[badb0y]

Wait for release of the HD 7970 maybe the GTX 580 gets a price drop.

 

[aphelion02]

7950 Crossfire

Might consider it if they were $350 price level, at the rumored $450 price level thats out of my budget.

 

[RussianSensation]

I am hoping that the 7950 will be to next generation what the 6950 is now.

Not a chance. HD7970 is a $449 card, not a $230-250 card. It won't be "like a HD6950" from price/performance for at least 18 months+ unless Kepler puts serious pricing pressure. But it might still unlock. In that sense, it might be like the 6950

2. 6950 crossfire, probably used for around $450-$500.

In that case, I'd get an HD7970 with an aftermarket cooler and overclock it to 1125+. For the games you listed though, except for Witcher 2 with SuperSampling, HD6950 @ 6970 is good enough. OTOH, even HD7970 won't be able to play Crysis 2 and Metro 2033 smoothly fully maxed out at your resolution. So you'll need to get 2x HD7950s for that. Still, if you are considering picking up a GTX580, I'd probably get an HD7950 and overclock that card.

3. Scrap by with some used mid ranged card (think 5850 level) until Kepler launches.

I think HD6950 2GB would work as an interim card for you since you want high-rez texture mods.

Wait for 7870 and crossfire that. Lots of unknowns regarding price / performance / launch timing.

$299, launches in February. Will you be able to use GTX560Ti that long on a borrowed basis? Also, HD6950 @ 6970 speeds can be had for less today. The preliminary specs for HD7870 seem less impressive (1408 SPs, 88 TMUs, 24 ROPs, 176 GB/sec bandwidth) than original leaks. I think HD7890 LE or w/e it's called is going to be a better card than HD6950 @ 6970.

Other? I'm open to suggestions. I could even buy a used gtx 580 for a similar price to what I sold.

I vote HD6950 2GB overclocked and unlocked short-term. None of the games you listed are that demanding except Witcher 2 or if you must have 4x MSAA in SC2 vs. MLAA. At the same time, you need way more power for Crysis 2 and Metro 2033 than a single HD7970 has to offer imho. For SKYRIM, HD7970 will help a lot though from your list of games.

28 fps at 1125mhz overclock is still unplayable.

42 fps at 1125mhz is getting there, but still far below 50-60 fps that a PC gamer might prefer for FPS genre.

I strongly suggest you look at this review. At 2560x1600 4AA, all single-GPU videocards with 1.5GB of VRAM or more run out of GPU power way before 1.5GB of VRAM becomes a limitation. At 2560x1600, 3GB of VRAM isn't making HD7970 any better, it's the GPU itself and memory bandwidth that is. Modern games start to push the 1GB and 1.28GB VRAM, but 1.5GB still seems fine right now at 2560x1600. Sure, games like BF3 show that they use more than 1.5GB of VRAM but it adds almost nothing to performance when comparing a 1.5GB vs. a 3GB GTX580.

If you are willing to stick to 4AA at 2560x1600, HD7950 1.5GB in CF can be a good option at $800 (if your budget goes that far). The really demanding games that actually *need* more than 1.5GB of VRAM today have modern cards chugging at 17-25 fps in those cases anyway. Or maybe 2x GTX580s in SLI (but only if NV drops their price below HD7950, assuming the 7950 unlocks, which we'll find out soon enough).

 

[aphelion02]

No chance. HD7970 is a $449 card, not a $230-250 card. It won't be like HD6950 for at least 18 months+ unless Kepler puts serious pricing pressure.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant is that I am hoping that the 7950 will be the same relationship to 7970 as the 6950 is now to the 6970 (almost the same after unlock + OC for much less).


Point taken about the 6950, but it feels a bit stupid to go from higher performance + lower res to lower performance + higher res. I would need to be able to sell the 6950 at at least $150ish after Kepler launch to make it worthwhile, and Kepler will need to be a decent upgrade compared to the 7970. Still I am seriously considering this option.

 

[RussianSensation]

Point taken about the 6950, but it feels a bit stupid to go from higher performance + lower res to lower performance + higher res. I would need to be able to sell the 6950 at at least $150ish after Kepler launch to make it worthwhile, and Kepler will need to be a decent upgrade compared to the 7970. Still I am seriously considering this option.

Ya I know, logically it sounds strange right? GTX580 has a nice lead over HD6970 at 1080P, but look at how GTX580 performs vs. HD6950 @ HD6970 at 2560x1600 4AA - slideshow for both in Crysis 2 and Metro 2033, both are getting you 40 fps in SKYRIM, so not much there between them. Right now, imho the only card worth upgrading to from HD6950 @ 6970 / GTX580 at your resolution is a heavily overclocked HD7970 (or HD7950 unlocked + overclocked I would imagine). I don't think GTX580 is even a consideration at today's prices. It costs $250+ more than an unlocked HD6950 2GB and adds little to playability at your resolution. HD6950 2GB CF setup is also much faster. I think you should rule out the 580 automatically unless NV slashes its price by $150+. At $470+, the GTX580 looks rather ridiculous vs. an overclocked $550 HD7970.

And if you considering picking up a used GTX580, what about 2 used HD6950 2GBs for CF? Overclocked, and at used prices, HD6950s are going to give you ~ HD6990 level of performance for < $400. Not bad.

I think you should re-adjust your expectations for Metro 2033. The game is just insane on hardware. I don't think even 2x HD7970s will max that game out at 2560x1600 4AA + DOF. The DOF feature destroys performance.

Even with DOF off, an overclocked GTX580 can't even get 40 fps at 1080P....

 

[aphelion02]

Your point is also well taken. But look at how GTX580 performs vs. HD6950 @ HD6970 at 2560x1600 4AA - slideshow for both in Crysis 2 and Metro 2033, both are getting you 40 fps in SKYRIM, so not much there between them. Right now, imho the only card worth upgrading to from HD6950 @ 6970 at your resolution is the HD7970 (or HD7950 overclocked). I don't think GTX580 is even a consideration. It costs $250+ more than an unlocked HD6950 2GB and adds little to playability at your resolution. I think you should rule out the 580 automatically unless NV slashes its price by $150+. At $470+, the GTX580 looks rather ridiculous vs. an overclocked $550 HD7970.

Only question is, what would the logical upgrade be from a 6950? It feels like it would be easier to get another card to crossfire. And if I am going that route, I might as well get 2 of them right now. Getting a single 6950 seems to make the assumption that Kepler will be much faster and an upgrade over 6950 xfire / 7970.

Edit: great benches btw, didn't know the 6950 was that close to the gtx 580. Might even consider that as a semi long-term solution now.

 

[RussianSensation]

Edit: great benches btw, didn't know the 6950 was that close to the gtx 580. Might even consider that as a semi long-term solution now.

The GTX580 is much faster at 1920x1080 vs. a 6950 or even an HD6970. But the minute you are discussing 2560x1600 (98&#37; more pixels !), everything changes. For example, if GTX580 was happily doing 60 fps vs. 45 of HD6950 (for instance), if you double the resolution, in simplest terms, that's like 1 card getting 22.5 fps and the other just 30 (both borderline console level). That's why $450 HD6950 2GB in CF would actually be preferable imo over a single GTX580 at your rez. (assuming micro stutter isn't a problem).

I am not trying to start a flame-war. Just trying to give you information to make your decision. Grooveriding has a point about HD7950 in CF. That's because while HD7970 is going to be extremely fast for the games you listed, once the discussion goes to 2560x1600, it's still not really fast enough to max out Crysis 2, Metro 2033 and Witcher 2 with Uber Sampling on a single HD7970.

Besically what you have is paying $400 for HD6950 CF to get similar "fast enough" performance in your games as an HD7970 with possible CF scaling issues.

OR HD6950 CF and HD7970 are still not fast enough.

TechSpot

This is why I said HD7970 wasn't changing much for gamers at 2560x1600. You'd still want two HD7900 series cards for the latest games unless you are OK with 30-36 fps in a FPS.

 

[Jacky60]

Get at least a 7970. not much point in getting a monitor like that if you gpu won't fill the space with the prettiest pictures at least at 40fps. 7970 OR 6950x2 or wait for Kepler. One 6950 would be good for 2/3 months until Kepler etc clearer.

 

[aphelion02]

The GTX580 is much faster at 1920x1080 vs. a 6950 or even an HD6970. But the minute you are discussing 2560x1600 (98% more pixels !), everything changes. For example, if GTX580 was happily doing 60 fps vs. 45 of HD6950 (for instance), if you double the resolution, in simplest terms, that's like 1 card getting 22.5 fps and the other just 30 (both borderline console level). That's why $450 HD6950 2GB in CF would actually be preferable imo over a single GTX580 at your rez. (assuming micro stutter isn't a problem).

I am not trying to start a flame-war. Just trying to give you information to make your decision. Grooveriding has a point about HD7950 in CF. That's because while HD7970 is going to be extremely fast for the games you listed, once the discussion goes to 2560x1600, it's still not fast enough to max out Crysis 2, Metro 2033 and Witcher 2 with Uber Sampling on a single HD7970.

TechSpot

Coming around to your way of thinking. However, I do need a bit more GPU than my game list indicate, because I do anticipate getting new games like DA3, and I remember DA2 was unexpectedly GPU intensive. For the next 2-3 months the 6950 will definitely hold me over. I am only trying to decide if that is the better value over the long term. I am considering just these two options right now:

1. Get a 7970/ 7950OC at launch.
2. Get 6950 2gb while waiting for Kepler to make a decision about next gen (either price drops on 7xxx or buying Kepler) , then sell the 6950.

 

[RussianSensation]

However, I do need a bit more GPU than my game list indicate, because I do anticipate getting new games like DA3, and I remember DA2 was unexpectedly GPU intensive.

Yes, it is. I am going to sound like a broken record once again, but look at what happens at your resolution.

So you tell me, does that look like an improvement over your old GTX580? I guess it is if you are benchmarking. When I see that a $550 HD7970 is getting 5-6 fps more over an HD6970, my face just goes D: HD7970 is really great for 1080/1200P or at 2560x1600 with some settings turned off. That's when it truly flies. With everything maxed out, for those games at 1600P, we might actually need to wait until GTX780/HD8970 or HD7950 CF, etc.

For the next 2-3 months the 6950 will definitely hold me over. I am only trying to decide if that is the better value over the long term.

You can wait until MrK6 does his mini-review of HD6950 @ 6970 vs. HD7970. He games at your rez and it might give you another reference point.

 

[aphelion02]

^Those numbers look damning for the 7970. Are you sure its not an outlier? I am also reading reports of close to 6990 performance after OC.

 

[tviceman]

You can wait until MrK6 does his mini-review of HD6950 @ 6970 vs. HD7970. He games at your rez and it might give you another reference point.

I'd personally recommend he stick to unbiased professional reviews.

 

[edplayer]

What does he have a bias against? Even numbers?

 

[MrK6]

I sold my gtx580 a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the 7970 launch, but I've been a bit disappointed by its performance / price and my course of action isn't so clear cut. Currently I am using a borrowed 560ti from a friend but that clearly isn't a long term solution. To top things off I am getting a U3011 in a few days so I will obviously need a more powerful setup.

Good time to sell your GTX 580, it would have been much more difficult now. Since I play at 2560x1600, I'm going to approach your question with some background info so you can see where I come from. 2560x1600 is a game changer, not only in how awesome gaming becomes, but also in the requirements to enjoy the experience (as you'll soon find out).

The majority of games I play are a mixed bag, for the next 6 months the majority of my time is probably going to be SWTOR, Skyrim (with high res texture mods), Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, and Witcher 2. That said I do want playable performance if I occasionally fire up the Crysis or Metro 2033 or get some game just to try it out.

None of those games are that demanding, even maxed out. I've played through every single one on my overclocked 6950 @ 1000MHz/1400MHz with everything pretty much maxed @ 2560x1600. True enough I didn't use Ubersampling in Witcher 2 or DoF in Metro 2033, but those are performance killers that require insane SLI/Crossfire setups to run playable, and not worth the cost IMO.

I'm also a big fan of single GPU setups. I like the smoothness and ease of use, and hate the microstutter multi-GPU setups give. Drivers are much simpler to manage as well. Because of this, I'm getting a 7970 at launch. As RussianSensation mentioned, I'm going to do a user review when I get one, so you can check out the benchmarks and my personal impressions if you'd like to get more hands-on info than reviews offer. I'm not ecstatic about the $550 price tag, but this card has a ton of features I want - 3GB of RAM (Skyrim mods will use it, I'm pegging 1800MB usage on my 6950 with only a few HD texture mods installed), lower power consumption, and seemingly insane overclocking potential, just to name a few.

There's also a trend that you'll rarely seen mentioned globally - AMD cards comparatively perform better at higher resolutions than their NVIDIA counterparts. It's been like that for years. Look at performance summaries from reviews, e.g. - http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/16 . You'll notice in the jump from 1920x1200 to 2560x1600, the 7970 extends its lead over the GTX 580 from 20.6&#37; to 26.5%. What you'll also notice is that this is the case for all other AMD cards on the chart as well. For example, the 6970's lead over the GTX 570 goes from 11% to 13.7% and the 6950 is actually faster than the GTX 570 @ 2560x1600. This trend continues across most games. This is why I'm hard pressed to ever recommend NVIDIA cards for 2560x1600+, especially from a performance/$ view.

Here are the options I am considering now:

1. Get a 7970 / 7950 at launch, depending on price/perf and unlock capabilities. I am hoping that the 7950 will be to next generation what the 6950 is now.

2. 6950 crossfire, probably used for around $450-$500.

3. Scrap by with some used mid ranged card (think 5850 level) until Kepler launches. This will be hoping that Kepler either comes fairly early or will be a large jump in performance.

4. Wait for 7870 and crossfire that. Lots of unknowns regarding price / performance / launch timing.

5. Other? I'm open to suggestions. I could even buy a used gtx 580 for a similar price to what I sold.

Edit: Note that crossfire options would mean I would have to give up my soundcard due to shitty mobo layout that puts the PCIe X1 slot right beneath the primary PCIe X16 slot, really blocking air intake.

Based on what I've said above, I'd go with the 7970 as long as it's within your budget. It's not the best performing option for the $ (that would be 6950 crossfire), but it's a lot less of a headache and more enjoyable IMO. Kepler could be a game changer, but by all reports it's not coming out for another 4-6 months, so if you want to wait it's up to you.

I'd personally recommend he stick to unbiased professional reviews.

Yes, I must be biased because I don't hate everything AMD or constantly praise NVIDIA. Take your ******* elsewhere, not in a thread where someone is trying to get help.


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[RussianSensation]

^Those numbers look damning for the 7970. Are you sure its not an outlier? I am also reading reports of close to 6990 performance after OC.

HD7970 OC does perform as well in some games as an HD6990. But in DA2, Crysis 2 and Metro 2033, that's not the case.

TechPowerUp

Perhaps, MrK6 might want to add DA2 to his list of games.

 

[RaistlinZ]

I'd say just get a 7970 and be happy. Why mess with Crossfire if you don't need to?

I have a U3011 as well and will be grabbing a 7970. Something tells me AMD won't make the 7950 unlockable. Just a gut feeling.

 

[tviceman]

Yes, I must be biased because I don't hate everything AMD or constantly praise NVIDIA. Take your ******* elsewhere, not in a thread where someone is trying to get help.

Classy! And with the eye roll so you must be spot on! However, using colorful language is a really strong adjective to use on anyone when it's coming from your mouth. And hate AMD? LOL okay Mr. Classy, whatever you say. I'm sure you can go through my post history and link all the various messages I have said to back up that intelligent claim. :thumbsup:


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