Gigabyte Z68 Motherboard disaster

[TJones2]

Been looking at the Z68 motherboards, like the idea of using the SSD as cache, but don't see any good deals on any right now so can I add the SSD later without having to reinstall Windows 7?

Second question is, if you have a SSD installed, and it dies, do you have to then reinstall Windows?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Been looking at the Z68 motherboards, like the idea of using the SSD as cache, but don't see any good deals on any right now so can I add the SSD later without having to reinstall Windows 7?

Second question is, if you have a SSD installed, and it dies, do you have to then reinstall Windows?

For Question #2 -- No, provided that (a) you choose "Enhanced" versus "Maximum" mode in the ISRT configuration within Windows, and (b) your SSD-death doesn't occur with a BSOD or abnormal shutdown using "Maximum" mode.

Tentatively -- as far as I know -- you should be able to change between "Enhanced' and Maximum" once you've made the initial setup. Worth looking into, but -- really -- I think this is likely given things that I've read about simply "uninstalling" the configuration to do this or that . . .

And to Question #1 -- Answer to #2 implies "Yes" to adding the SSD later. Apparently, the procedure for setting up requires installation of Win 7 (etc.) without the SSD connected, followed by installation of the ISRT software in Windows. Then, you hook up the SSD after shutting down, boot up and configure within Windows.

But -- very important, and here's where there may be a problem (I'm thus backtracking a bit.) You do not configure the hard drive in "IDE" mode; you do not configure the hard drive in ACHI mode. It must be configured within BIOS in "RAID" mode. Since you then install the OS on that configuration, I can't see any problem with running it that way for any length of time while you wait for the SSD. It just gives you a little pause for thinking about it. . .

In my case, I couldn't help myself: I didn't want an SATA-II SSD. I finally opted to avoid using an SATA-II hard disk. Finally, I didn't even want to satisfy myself with the mainstream Caviar Black HDD. After looking at the benchmark results for use of such a drive -- which still showed stunning performance, I imagined what the marginal improvement with VelociRaptor would give. I probably wasted the extra bucks for too little bang, but it was the first Raptor I ever bought.

Point being -- I'd lean toward the SATA-III SSD's, but you can really skimp on the capacity if you can find a 60+GB model. Fact is, you can only create a cache size maximum of 64GB. And further -- the stunning performance benchmarks were made with a 20GB cache.

Intel may have seen all this coming, since they developed the technology themselves. Oddly, their SATA-III Elm-Crest drives are limited to a minimum 120GB capacity (although you can use the remainder in a partition as a you'd use an SSD for regular purposes.) And I say they saw it coming to announce release of a 20GB "Larson-Creek" SATA-III SSD.

Which . . . . hasn't been released yet . . . when you might decide that that's the one you want specifically for this purpose . . .

 

[TJones2]

Any drawback to setting it up as Raid and the rest with just one non-SSD drive?

 

[bankster55]

you can set up as AHCI and change it to RAID later without reinstall of Windows
http://www.futurelooks.com/video-fu...us-some-tips-and-tricks-for-successful-setup/

Gigabyte has a mobo now with a 20GB SSD on board - nothing to plug in or cable up

 

[BonzaiDuck]

you can set up as AHCI and change it to RAID later without reinstall of Windows
http://www.futurelooks.com/video-fu...us-some-tips-and-tricks-for-successful-setup/

Gigabyte has a mobo now with a 20GB SSD on board - nothing to plug in or cable up

That's good to know. I thought it might be the case, but didn't want to court disaster . ..

 

[TJones2]

But should I just go ahead and set it up as RAID? Again, will it still do hot swap and NCQ as it would had I set up as AHCI? Again, at this point, I'm installing only one hard drive, no SSDs.

Also, on the Gigabyte site, they have RAID drivers (one still uses F7 when installing Windows, takes the data off a floppy???) do I need to install these? I'm thinking I don't.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

But should I just go ahead and set it up as RAID? Again, will it still do hot swap and NCQ as it would had I set up as AHCI? Again, at this point, I'm installing only one hard drive, no SSDs.

Also, on the Gigabyte site, they have RAID drivers (one still uses F7 when installing Windows, takes the data off a floppy???) do I need to install these? I'm thinking I don't.

Here's what I've discovered. You can set it up as RAID with one disk -- which is the way you'd install Windows 7/(or VISTA) anyway in preparation for the SSD-caching. At that time, the SSD would not be connected or powered. You then install your chipset drivers, graphics drivers, LAN drivers . . . and especially (having already F6-installed the Intel controller RAID drivers early in the Win 7 installation) -- your IRST drivers and software. Also, you could download Intel's SSD-Toolbox software, and install the Intel management software.

Further -- I mention this because it is now clear to me -- under the condition and provided that you can hook up all the HDDs to the INtel controller with the SSD, you could use two or more drives to create the conventional RAID0 or RAID1 -- possibly even RAID5 RAID array. [Still keeping the SSD disconnected, uninstalled.]

When you're ready, your machine is powered down, you install the SSD (preferably an SATA-III, and for the budget minded with no loss in efficiency -- a small drive like 20GB or 60GB). You hook it up to the same bank of INtel plugs -- again, preferably if SATA-III -- to an SATA-III port.

Fire up the machine; boot into Windows; run the ISRT software program. Select the new SSD as the caching drive; select the single hard disk or RAID volume as the accelerated drive/volume. Select "Enhanced" or "Maximized." That's about it. You're advised to use "Enhanced" if this is a new system for which there could be other stability issues [Zum Beispiel: I'm over-clocking my Z68]. You're still advised to use Enhanced if there's any chance of system crashes. Enhanced takes a performance hit by doing all "reads" through the cache for the accelerated drive in question, but it "writes" to both the SSD and HDD simultaneously -- slightly degrading performance but insuring agaist data loss. "Maximized" writes to the cache, which is then flushed to the HDD later. So it's faster.

And yes -- if it's a Gigabyte Z68 board, then Gigabyte provides you their Intel ICHXX SATA controller drivers. Generally, unless you've found a way to hook up a USB floppy (or the Gigabyte board has a floppy port), you can unpack your Gigabyte drivers from your download or from your motherboard CD/DVD, then install them on a USB thumb/flash drive (in FAT32 format). When you install the OS, just have the flash-drive handy -- even "already plugged in."

PS. If you're "waiting" to buy your SSD -- Keep an eye out for Intel's Larson Creek 20GB drive. If you find it before I do, please report back to this thread and let me know who's selling it and for how much. I wish they'd released the Larson Creek before -- and not after -- they released the Z68 chipset and motherboards. I almost want to say something expletive, and not "------boards!"

 

[TJones2]

Its weird because the manual says first that "Before installing the operating system, you have to load the SATA controller driver first". It then tells you to got to chapter five where it then says "As Windows 7 already include Intel SATA RAID/AHCI driver, you do not need to install separate RAID/AHCI driver during the Windows installation process".

Can you see why I'm confused?

Anyway, do I also go ahead and select eXtreme Hard Drive (X.H.D) which will automatically select RAID for me, or skip that and only choose RAID? Also, do I then have to do any RAID configuring in the bios. I've never setup a RAID before.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Its weird because the manual says first that "Before installing the operating system, you have to load the SATA controller driver first". It then tells you to got to chapter five where it then says "As Windows 7 already include Intel SATA RAID/AHCI driver, you do not need to install separate RAID/AHCI driver during the Windows installation process".

Can you see why I'm confused?

Anyway, do I also go ahead and select eXtreme Hard Drive (X.H.D) which will automatically select RAID for me, or skip that and only choose RAID? Also, do I then have to do any RAID configuring in the bios. I've never setup a RAID before.

I suspect that the manual -- and I can't see which mobo you selected, so maybe you forgot to say -- is trying to cover the issue of whether Win-7 bundles either the latest drivers or the drivers for that (or some forthcoming) ICH controller.

But it wouldn't matter. Pick a good rule of thumb: Mobo makers may include some dated software or drivers, but pretty much the drivers for storage are guaranteed to work. Especially for something like storage (HDD SATA controllers) -- I'd be very much inclined to use the drivers bundled with the motherboard.

On general terms, I have another rule-of-thumb based on some unpleasant (but not catastrophic) experiences. I NEVER use Microsoft's offering of hardware drivers for anything through Windows Update. I always try to use the hardware-vendor/maker's. Especially, I follow this rule for graphics drivers and sound-card drivers. And I'd always go to the mobo-maker's website driver-download pages and get THEIR latest version of the storage drivers.

And never mind -- you can update those drivers later.

But BE AWARE -- with me speaking from my recent experience with ASUS Z68 boards: Even before you install the OS, I'd look to see if the mobo-manufacturer has a BIOS update fresher than that on your new board, and I'd do the preparation -- either put the ROM file on a USB drive to flash from within the current BIOS, or put it on a bootable "DOS" floppy per their instructions with the DOS BIOS updater. If possible, do this BEFORE installing the OS -- with one more related point.

That being -- I've seen BIOS updates for my ASUS board come bundled in the same zip file with updates to the storage controller driver and the ISRT software. And I discovered that -- with old BIOS or new -- you couldn't get the SSD-caching "ISRT" to work properly without updating the BIOS, the drivers, AND the software to be installed under Windows. You would have the drivers ready on a USB or floppy when you install Windows 7. Not a major headache of any kind.

I almost feel silly for being so specific about it, but you need to know . . .

 

[TJones2]

Another question, how do you go about overclocking this with a i5-2500k? I understood you could do it in one step?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Another question, how do you go about overclocking this with a i5-2500k? I understood you could do it in one step?

Looking back through this -- even a bit too quickly -- I can't tell if you've selected and motherboard and have it running, are considering a particular motherboard, are considering any of a few Z68's, or any remaining possibilities left in that sieve.

Let's save some time. If you are still shopping, look at anything on these forums (pl.!) for the ASUS P8Z68-[V/V-Pro/Deluxe . . . all the same]. I posted a summary of how the board features interact with both UEFI-BIOS and windows-based "AI Suite" and Turbo-EVO over-clocking.

If you selected another board, you can sift through that same material but I cannot guarantee how much of it transfers to the other board's BIOS.

If you have one of the aforementioned ASUS boards, follow the former path.

[Well . . . darn . . . ] You can do it with the subject boards by a flip of a switch. You can preset in BIOS any limits the switch will follow. You can do it in the Windows software, and save the profile. You can do it manually, you can do it with "auto" settings. If you don't choose any settings, the board will do so and test them until it finds "a solution."

So yeah -- one step, in various ways, or "one big step" followed by manual tweaking and a lot of little steps . . .

 

[sygyzy]

What would you do in the scenario where you want add a SSD later on to cache a mechanical hard drive used to store data, rather than the OS?

For example:

120GB SSD - Windows 7
20GB SSD - Caching Drive
1TB WD Hard Drive - used to store games/documents etc.

First you would install Windows 7 which I understand requires ACHI Mode. But Intel ISRT requires RAID. They are different right?

 

[TJones2]

I'm going nuts here. I got Windows installed but I keep getting blue screened. Also, when I load into Windows it first says "Loading Operating System...." before Windows starts to load, is this normal when you have RAID set? Do I have to do something with RAID to stop the blue screen?

Here's what I did. I set RAID under "Control Mode", installed Windows 7 64-bit with the F8 RAID driver when installing. I also installed the Intel motherboard drivers including the ISRT software. And all the Windows updates of course. I haven't done any setting up of RAID, do I need too when I only have one drive? Remember, I have no interest in real RAID configurations, I just want to add a SSD drive later on.

Configuration:
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H
i5-2500k
G.SKILL Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600

Please explain in layman terms, I'm getting a bit lost here.

 

[bankster55]

What would you do in the scenario where you want add a SSD later on to cache a mechanical hard drive used to store data, rather than the OS?

For example:

120GB SSD - Windows 7
20GB SSD - Caching Drive
1TB WD Hard Drive - used to store games/documents etc.

First you would install Windows 7 which I understand requires ACHI Mode. But Intel ISRT requires RAID. They are different right?

You have to be in RAID MODE, but dont have to have RAID. Your 1TB will still be actual in use AHCI. You need the RAID bios OPROM to be in play for RST, and the only way to do that is in RAID. And ONLY with known working bios.

Using an SSD for the O/S and another for the cache is a waste of effort - what for?? The 1TB is supposed to be O/S, cacher 64 GB SSD or less

 

[bankster55]

From ASUS download page

Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology Driver Software V10.5.0.1026 for Windows XP 32bit & 64bit.

Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology Driver Software V10.5.0.1026 for Windows Vista/7 32bit & 64bit.(WHQL)
Note: For proper operation, please ensure to update Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver to version 10.5.0.1026 and BIOS to version 0501 before enabling Intel Smart Response Technology.

Update procedure for users needing Intel Smart Response Technology:
(1) Enter OS, and ensure Intel Smart Response Technology has been turned off under Intel Rapid Storage Technology interface.
(2) Install version Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver to version 10.5.0.1026.
(3) Reboot the system, and update BIOS to version 0501, then reboot.
(4) Enter the BIOS setup screen, press F5 to load BIOS default, then change the Intel SATA Port to RAID mode.
(5) Boot into OS, and re-enable Intel Smart Response Technology under Intel Rapid Storage Technology.
-----------------------------------
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review/2
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/291718-30-help-setting-intel
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1144648
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/05/11/intel_smart_response_technology_srt

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/05/27/gigabyte-mobo-with-integrated-ssd-due-in-ju/1

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Intel-Smart-Response-Technology-Explained/1292

http://www.techspot.com/review/395-asrock-z68-extreme4/page3.html
http://www.futurelooks.com/video-fu...us-some-tips-and-tricks-for-successful-setup/

also read comments below this vid
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGD48ihLQCI

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U83ED4FOWiw

Never seen a chipset rollout that needed so much homework

 

[TJones2]

Every time I build a new system, I start thinking its time to just buy a Dell.

 

[you2]

Why? I've built two new systems in the past 4 months without major issues (well i've had headache with suspend stuff; and I panic about soemthing feeling hot; but that was mostly due to limited rma window).
-
I have to admit I never bother with on board raid; but rather use linux software raid for years which seems to work well (for windows i woudlnt' dare mess with raid).

Actually dell isn't so bad; I use one for work and my I got my dad hooked on them years ago (1988ish). They just don't make what works for my home systems.

 

[TJones2]

I'm now dealing with heat issues as well. Running over 50c idle and 82c under load. Tried fiddling with adding and removing goo, pretty much the same results. Pins are good and its fully secured to the board.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Every time I build a new system, I start thinking its time to just buy a Dell.

Well, that's a choice. My cousin, for instance, had chosen to keep a 90' yacht and pay the $2,000/mo slip-rental at Port Orchard. My brother has a couple horses -- that's his luxury. Now, the cousin chooses to live on the yacht (with a galley bigger than my mom's kitchen) having sold his house.

My own hobby indulgences aren't nearly so extravagant. I have a friend, also retired, whose income considerably exceeds mine, but he says "I only USE computers; I don't build them." He got a Dell XPS-7100 with the Phenom II X6 running stock at 2.8Ghz. Instead of $700 (maybe less?!) for the basic unit, he purchased the extended service and warranty for an extra $300.

I decided forego my goal of doing this build in September and start working on it two months early. The initial budget was somewhere around $1,300. Adding the belated purchase of an OS upgrade I might have deferred until next year, and the SSD drive for the ISRT HDD-caching, a bargain I got on a VelociRaptor that isn't all that necessary, I'm over $1,600.

As a former software and DB pro, I would've swung toward the $700 option. All my priorities have changed since leaving behind my former-life in the world of work. Or -- at least my computer-hardware priorities.

I'd also have to say that -- as a retired person -- maybe I shouldn't do this. Maybe -- I should save the extra ducats. But I'm also an aspiring Burt Munro wannabe in this computer-tech realm, even if I don't make it to that big ComDex show equivalent to the bonneville salt flats where the liquid-nitrogen-cooling crowd has their little competition.

I may not build "The World's Fastest Indian," or get to run it at the computer-equivalent of the Salt Flats. But I like sleeping here in this room with all the hard-drives, circuit-boards and other slock on the shelves and strewn all over. Maybe -- even -- I go out in the morning and relieve my bladder on the ground next to my Eureka lemon tree. . . . . You'll never know, and neither will the neighbors . . . :biggrin:

 

[you2]

If that is your cpu and your not overclocking than it is the fan not being mounted correctly. I use intel stock cooler and the idle speed is 34 for both the overclock and non overclocked system; under full load the non-overclock is around 58; and the overclock is 65. Anyways there is no doubt that at those temp you have mounted the fan incorrectly (or used too much thermal paste). Then again if you boost the speed way up; try setting it to stock speed to get a base temp reading.
-

I'm now dealing with heat issues as well. Running over 50c idle and 82c under load. Tried fiddling with adding and removing goo, pretty much the same results. Pins are good and its fully secured to the board.

 

[TJones2]

If that is your cpu and your not overclocking than it is the fan not being mounted correctly. I use intel stock cooler and the idle speed is 34 for both the overclock and non overclocked system; under full load the non-overclock is around 58; and the overclock is 65. Anyways there is no doubt that at those temp you have mounted the fan incorrectly (or used too much thermal paste). Then again if you boost the speed way up; try setting it to stock speed to get a base temp reading.
-

Like I said, I've fiddled with thermal paste using more, using less. I've sat the hsf every which way. Always the same result. And yes, its all the way in and the fan is spinning.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Like I said, I've fiddled with thermal paste using more, using less. I've sat the hsf every which way. Always the same result. And yes, its all the way in and the fan is spinning.

Check a recent thread -- I've posted extensively there -- about "Sandy Bridge running hot with Noctua-D14" on the "CPU/OC'ing" forum.

I suggest you check the motherboard's monitoring software and compare VCORE and "package" thermal reporting (or CPU temperature) against what is reported by HWMonitor from CPUID version 1.8 (latest).

I would not trust either CPUID"s CPu-Z or CoreTemp or RealTemp at this time, since their software revisions preceded release of Z68 motherboard by months and many months.

 

[you2]

In my system they all came out about the same but having said that the mb you have should have a utility for measuring temp. Anyways it is difficult to comment. You said you did it correctly but then it is running very hot which suggest otherwise.

Did you try the stock cooler ?

 

[TJones2]

In my system they all came out about the same but having said that the mb you have should have a utility for measuring temp. Anyways it is difficult to comment. You said you did it correctly but then it is running very hot which suggest otherwise.

Did you try the stock cooler ?

It is the stock cooler.

I've also checked the Gigabyte utility, it reports the same thing that Core Temp does.

I just got an email back from Intel. They say the Tcase temp is 72c, which they explain is normal operating temperature, and that getting temps of 80-85c is "ok" under "heavy processor applications". It will shut down at 100c. I'll dick around with the cables to get the temp down in the case, and a better cooler. I found a good price on a Noctua NH-D14 but I'm pretty sure I won't get the case to close with that in it.

 

[TJones2]

More bluescreen!!! This time it happened after I cleared up the cabling and shut the computer up. It loaded into windows, said it was loading new drivers. Said to reboot. I rebooted then got a bluescreen, this one to be exact:

http://i.imgur.com/FsVJ2.jpg

Check everything out cable wise, rebooted, got another bluescreen. Tried again, ran Windows repair.

I'm hoping that I'm overlooking something or totally screwing up because this is driving me nuts. This isn't my first build...it certainly is my most frustrating.

I suspect my retailer won't refund a computer I've been dicking with for the past four days, so I'm just going to sell off the parts and be done with it. Any suggestions for a low frustration reasonable gamers motherboard? This computer, btw, isn't for me, its for my son for doing well in school this year...was supposed to be ready for him when they returned from vacation...bummer.