The OP is taking issue with how people look to corporations for moral guidance. He also takes issue with Gillette associating itself with an issue that he does not think that they are connected to. The goal in his mind is to associate the brand with a social movement so people will buy their product in a shallow way of trying to also associate themselves to that movement.
The OP understands that there are social issues to be addressed, he just takes issue with the idea that this company was trying to do the right thing, rather than just trying to make more money.
From that summary, what do you disagree with in terms of how I framed his position?
If it makes no god damned sense, I'd put my money on it being conservative. Notice that something can make no sense and something can make no god damned sense. What is the difference. I think it is emotional need, the assumption, in your case, that it's tragic or personally threatening when something makes no sense as opposed to beyond your ken.Constructive? Are you kidding? This is one big turd hurling thread... I had convinced myself I was out, yet, here I am again participating the the turd hurling. It makes no god damned sense.
LOL at who down voted your postFor those who question which way this form leans, how many "Right" leaning posters go around down voting people on the forum. Then, look at the people that are on the "Left" doing it. People get triggered by a whole mess of things, its just that some groups are triggered by different things.
The thing is you're proving the ad worked flawlessly. Because you're here fucking discussing its message. You're not even discussing the quality of Gilette's products or anything but the message of their ad. Which was explicitly the intention of the ad. And then you're trying to say that it doesn't work and missed the mark, when they nailed you in the bullseye so hard that your argument is essentially looking at some other target and going "look its not even on the target" while you've got an arrow sticking out of your chest.
I can automatically tell the intelligence level of anyone that uses such a stupid fucking term.
Id much rather get rid of the voting system, if anything give it thumbs up or nothing.... But I guess we live in the age of "The Kardashians"... And I think I just might despice that part of this generations culture. Generation Reality. And not "Reality" in a good way.For those who question which way this form leans, how many "Right" leaning posters go around down voting people on the forum. Then, look at the people that are on the "Left" doing it. People get triggered by a whole mess of things, its just that some groups are triggered by different things.
Intoxicating?"Toxic Masculinity" is in of itself intoxicating to rational thought.
I can automatically tell the intelligence level of anyone that uses such a stupid fucking term.
For those who question which way this form leans, how many "Right" leaning posters go around down voting people on the forum. Then, look at the people that are on the "Left" doing it. People get triggered by a whole mess of things, its just that some groups are triggered by different things.
Id much rather get rid of the voting system, if anything give it thumbs up or nothing.... But I guess we live in the age of "The Kardashians"... And I think I just might despice that part of this generations culture. Generation Reality. And not "Reality" in a good way.
100pct agreeOnly needs two options at most, as far as I can decide - 'agree' and 'funny'. Decided I don't like other kinds of 'votes' (OK, maybe 'informative'). I mean I actually, only for a very brief moment mind you, found myself feeling sorry for a poster upon seeing the vast array of different kinds of down votes one of his posts had attracted. It makes them look like victims and makes the forum look a bit...undignified.
There are a few people who clearly care about the rating system. Some of us don’t know the “history” of the forum, so quite often, the voting system just comes across as a group of passive aggressive pack animals protecting their echo chamber.Lol, the down vote is funny. This forum has more lefties than righties for sure, but certain righties will roll through and down vote stuff regularly. Certain other ones like to use the boring vote a bunch, the OP being one of those.
See, while you defend the OP, he has a history here that others don't ignore. His sincerity is known, but Gilette's isn't.
People care about the votes if they care about their "rating", but seriously...why would you care about that lol.
There are a few people who clearly care about the rating system. Some of us don’t know the “history” of the forum, so quite often, the voting system just comes across as a group of passive aggressive pack animals protecting their echo chamber.
You and a few others will at least comment in the threads to back up your votes.
Id much rather get rid of the voting system, if anything give it thumbs up or nothing.... But I guess we live in the age of "The Kardashians"... And I think I just might despice that part of this generations culture. Generation Reality. And not "Reality" in a good way.
Lol, the down vote is funny. This forum has more lefties than righties for sure, but certain righties will roll through and down vote stuff regularly. Certain other ones like to use the boring vote a bunch, the OP being one of those.
See, while you defend the OP, he has a history here that others don't ignore. His sincerity is known, but Gilette's isn't.
People care about the votes if they care about their "rating", but seriously...why would you care about that lol.
Out of my 26 down vote, 25 of them come from 2 people. I don't know if its a generational thing, but, there are people that value doing that.
Take for example one guy, who is going back through old Warpossum posts and down voting them. Posts made over a year before the voting system, and this person that down votes me also down votes those posts.
That type of activity appears to be limited to those on the Left in this small insignificant part of the interwebs so its not like it matters. Something like this is nothing when compared to the Right's paranoia and it's belief of things like the war on xmas.
You know, you had me going right until you began generalizing left this, right that .. thats the precise foxhole we should not go down.
Anyway, the part about going back through a persons old posts and downvoting all of them is just sad.
I don't care about the ratio. I do care about what it says in the sense that I think it conflicts with what people think about this forum. You for example say that righties also use the downvote like those on the left do here. Look through my downvotes, and look at those righties that you think do the same. I would bet that you could not find as many on the right doing it as the left here.
If I cared about my rating, then I would have likely cared about the perception those same people had of me before. I clearly engage in discussions that expose me to a whole set of negative feelings. I think its pretty obvious that is not the case for me at the very least.
Yes, more lefties here, so more lefties will downvote conservative posters. Yet, I would bet you'll find a higher percentage of conservative posters performing downvotes when comparing the two groups.
I didn't think you cared about the ratings, obviously from your posts. Yet, you clearly think about it enough to address it?
While I tend to put likes, laffs, and the occasional boring action, I find the system to be social-media-esque and could do with it.
I seriously can not believe this thread about this topic is going on this long with this much heated debate. It's really quite telling and amazing.
It seems to me the conversation, not that we’ve had much of one, would improve if we could deal with the actual things people say instead of addressing the boxes into which we have put them. What I see is an intolerant rejection of others based on ideology.
Masculinity has toxic parts. The modern term, however, states that inherent to masculinity is something toxic.
I seriously can not believe this thread about this topic is going on this long with this much heated debate. It's really quite telling and amazing.
Careful you'll trigger those who are really concerned about a company saying something positive because it might be marketing intended to make them money. You know like when Amex runs ads about it support for food charities. I'm sure if we look back we'll find many threads outraged about "virtue signalling" and for profit corporations.
Apologizes to Moonbeam in advance, if my attempt to re-phrase in simpler terms causes me to be in error, or guilty of similar trespass.
@P&N
This is the crux of the discussion.
Some men do horrible things. But now we have stereotyped slander onto all men, and far too many posters are wondering why that is a bad thing. Or they'll tell us "!@#$ your feelings". To hijack a familiar phrase, these posters are telling us "I'm not Trump, you're Trump!". However, their comfort with Trumpanze behavior is disturbing. The last thing this country needs is for us to emulate the right wing. Or to embrace its depravity.
We are only human, and for that we all risk slipping into madness as we create and defend sacred cows. As we take shortcuts to throw people into boxes and strip them of their innocence, guilt by association! Guilt by being "other"! Do you not care, that you have likely targeted good people in a crusade against bad people?
The issue is that the commercial does it. Reinforced by posters repeating that mistake here as well. I posted earlier, Toxic Masculinity is not a common term. You are using foreign language that, in translation, will mean ALL MEN. Instead of saying "some men are bad", the message will be received as "all men are bad". And the reactions will follow in accordance with that reception.
It's not the underlying message that is wrong. It is the delivery.
But then to jump on people whose vocabulary is different, who probably didn't take some gender studies course in the past 10 years, who only heard that term from gender hating extremists, who think you're telling us that men are toxic. This miscommunication is creeping up all over the place. There was another recent topic, where the definition was racism is defined in a very restrictive way. Again, with language that is not common, or shared. Therein are differences of opinion where we risk seeding needless conflict.
People who do not share your definitions, of language, are going to have different reactions to complex narratives. That does not make them evil, or like Trump. Wars have been started over poor translations. Do not make the same primitive mistakes as your ancestors. American culture may be splintered, but those "other" people are not evil. You're just not delivering to them, the messages you think you are.
In this particular case, nuance is important to the message being delivered. And I fear that nuance is lost in translation.
#Metoo is an important moment of backlash for women to assert themselves. To stand up to the cultural abuse they have suffered. But we can support it more broadly if we find ways to appeal and bring together more independents and moderates with messages they can all understand and appreciate. That can appeal to a wider audience. Toxic Masculinity is not one of them.
There are better ways to ask men to do better. And better ways to react when they don't understand a message.