Gillette’s wonderfully woke new commercial

[UglyCasanova]

I was curious so I looked it up

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html

56% men / 44% women in advertising. More men but a good representation of women. FWIW in my business school it seemed the marketing students were primarily female and when I was in graphic design there were a large representation in there as well, so I see that profession becoming more and more female dominant as time goes on.

Only one I know in marketing atm is a guy I work withs daughter who is head of marketing at Geico.

 

[Jhhnn]

I am no where near a conservative and pretty liberal on social issues and support #MeToo, but this commercial still annoys the crap out of me. I have no idea how anyone sitting around a conference room table thought this would be a good business decision.

FWIW, I almost always think companies should stay out of politics and political things, even when they agree with me, so that is one reason it annoys me.

But seriously, someone could make a similar ad with a bunch of stereotypical black behaviors and then talk about how "some" black men aren't dealing drugs and "some" black men raise their own kids. If that happened every single person in this thread defending this ad would rightfully have a cow over it, but for some reason since it is directed at all men it is a good message.

Just imagine @Jhhnn coming in here "Black people hate it because it hits too close to home for them. They see being deadbeat dads and using drugs as part of their culture." Generalizing and stereotyping any group is wrong, even if it is a group that generally holds power.

Made you squirm, huh? and now you'll lash out at the people who made you feel that way.

 

[pmv]

Yeah I've decided Theresa May is Oliver Hardy (the grown-up sensible one, whose every plan goes horribly wrong) and Boris Johnson is Stan Laurel (the irresponsible child-like one, who keeps dropping his partner - if not the whole country - in another fine mess). Which would make the EU that guy with the moustache (who actually invented Homer Simpson's "d'oh") who usually played their protagonist.

Though L&H were better dancers.

Or maybe they're Father Ted and Father Dougal? Making Boris Johnson foreign secretary or Mayor of London was like that episode of Father Ted where Dougal was left in charge of a funeral.

 

[Zorba]

What a major fucknut you are, I judged them by their character and what I know that happened in their lives, not by the fact that they were men. You're just upset that they are men. You might also note that I'm talking about all men, not just black, brown or white as individuals. Some of these assholes I've known were white, some brown and some black. Same with the ones I know now. In addition I can point you to numerous conservative sites where they do exactly what you want me to do; single out people of color who have screwed up and call them all kinds of names. Men who are assholes aren't just white so take your color argument and shove it. Nobody except for the whiny men are saying that women are saints or the like. Nor is the commercial calling all men toxic, as one moron said above.

The commercial is asking men to be the best they can be. You and those like you don't like the message and can't say anything against it without looking like assholes so you instead attack the messenger (the commercial).

Thanks for the name calling, good way to prove you aren't a bully, asshole, stereotypical male. This thread is about the commercial that does a good job implying the majority of men are assholes. I have never said or implied that there aren't asshole men in the world. There are plenty of terrible men in the world, just like there are some terrible women.

My issue with the ad is that it is stereotyping all men. I'm sorry you are attempting to argue something completely different.

 

[Zorba]

Made you squirm, huh? and now you'll lash out at the people who made you feel that way.

WTF is this shit? Just because I disagree with you, I must be a wife beater and sexually assault women.

I'm against massively stereotyping groups of people, that used to be a liberal ideal.

Any ways, nice diversion. It's amazing how quickly so many people fall back to personal attacks instead of actually discussing the actually post.

 

[Jhhnn]

WTF is this shit? Just because I disagree with you, I must be a wife beater and sexually assault women.

I'm against massively stereotyping groups of people, that used to be a liberal ideal.

Any ways, nice diversion. It's amazing how quickly so many people fall back to personal attacks instead of actually discussing the actually post.

It's amazing how much you've over reacted, even to the point of putting words in my mouth.

And, uhh, "Made you squirm" isn't personal attack. It's mere observation. Made me squirm a little bit, too, but it's a message I can take to heart & use it to help me be a better person. Why is that so hard?

 

[Zorba]

It's amazing how much you've over reacted, even to the point of putting words in my mouth.

And, uhh, "Made you squirm" isn't personal attack. It's mere observation. Made me squirm a little bit, too, but it's a message I can take to heart & use it to help me be a better person. Why is that so hard?

I am pretty sure I already specifically said that I'm not against the message, I just don't like the delivery because it comes off as a very broad stereotype, especially with the "a few of us are doing something."

I have never done any of the behaviors shown as bad except roughhousing as a kid, so it doesn't personally make me squirm.

It does make me squirm we I see anyone using stereotypes and treating large groups as an "other."

 

[Vic]

"Toxic black people exist and all this commercial is asking is for blacks to step up and be better. The horror."

The people complaining about this commercial tend to be the same ones who say that quite frequently. Just in different words, something about the "black community" doing something about "thugs," and usually when referring to the crime rate in South Chicago or similar.
And the inherent racism of that is usually missed by everyone.

 

[Zorba]

"Toxic black people exist and all this commercial is asking is for blacks to step up and be better. The horror."

The people complaining about this commercial tend to be the same ones who say that quite frequently. Just in different words, something about the "black community" doing something about "thugs," and usually when referring to the crime rate in South Chicago or similar.
And the inherent racism of that is usually missed by everyone.

Find any post of mine that I've done that. (Although I realize I am not keeping the best company atm)

The commercial strongly implies most men are assholes. If you did that against any other group the people on here defending it would be very against it. I would also be against it. The difference is I'd be being consistent. Groups of people shouldn't be judged and stereotyped regardless of if they are in a position of power or in a position of disadvantage.

I agree that most* of the things shown in the commercial are wrong and should be stopped, but I don't believe they are being done by anywhere near the majority of men.

I personally think once you start generalizing people you should stop and ask yourself how it would sound if you said the same thing about a different group of people. Or better yet, unless you are doing scientific research or discussing scientific research just don't generalize and stereotype people. I think SNL has done a good job bringing up similar subjects multiple times, without implying only 1 in 30 men would stop a bully beating up another kid.

*I don't understand what's wrong with the boys roughhousing.

 

[greatnoob]

The commercial strongly implies most men are assholes

I didn't see it that way at all. Which parts of the ad do you believe implied that most men are assholes? I saw it as a message for all men, asshole or not, to be a better version of themselves. I thought the ad directed assholes to stop being assholes and non-assholes (the majority) to be more proactive, call out and stop assholish behaviour when they see it. I wouldn't say it was calling most men assholes.

 

[Jaskalas]

Toxic people exist and all this commercial is asking is for guys to step up and be better. The horror.

That's funny, you said toxic people. The ad was quite clearly saying men are toxic. Toxic masculinity, and let's demonstrate that with a couple of kids wrestling on the grass. A real danger to society those two were. "Boys will be boys", again it stereotypes. The ad has a real problem with its delivery. It is complex, multilayered, and people are not going to view it from the same perspective. Which means it will, genuinely, be received differently.

 

[Vic]

Find any post of mine that I've done that. (Although I realize I am not keeping the best company atm)

The commercial strongly implies most men are assholes. If you did that against any other group the people on here defending it would be very against it. I would also be against it. The difference is I'd be being consistent. Groups of people shouldn't be judged and stereotyped regardless of if they are in a position of power or in a position of disadvantage.

I agree that most* of the things shown in the commercial are wrong and should be stopped, but I don't believe they are being done by anywhere near the majority of men.

I personally think once you start generalizing people you should stop and ask yourself how it would sound if you said the same thing about a different group of people. Or better yet, unless you are doing scientific research or discussing scientific research just don't generalize and stereotype people. I think SNL has done a good job bringing up similar subjects multiple times, without implying only 1 in 30 men would stop a bully beating up another kid.

*I don't understand what's wrong with the boys roughhousing.

I was just making an observation, not accusing you of anything. You said, imagine if this happened, and I pointed out that that happens all the time, and usually no one cares.

I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with friendly roughhousing. I disagree with you that the commercial implied that the majority of men are assholes.
It would seem that appealing to our better natures is considered offensive now.

 

[Vic]

That's funny, you said toxic people. The ad was quite clearly saying men are toxic. Toxic masculinity, and let's demonstrate that with a couple of kids wrestling on the grass. A real danger to society those two were. "Boys will be boys", again it stereotypes. The ad has a real problem with its delivery. It is complex, multilayered, and people are not going to view it from the same perspective. Which means it will, genuinely, be received differently.

To extol men to be the best they can be is the same as saying that men are toxic?

Really?

 

[greatnoob]

That's funny, you said toxic people. The ad was quite clearly saying men are toxic. Toxic masculinity, and let's demonstrate that with a couple of kids wrestling on the grass. A real danger to society those two were. "Boys will be boys", again it stereotypes. The ad has a real problem with its delivery. It is complex, multilayered, and people are not going to view it from the same perspective. Which means it will, genuinely, be received differently.

I disagree that was the message the ad was trying to convey but I'll agree that the boys play fighting isn't what I'd call 'assholish' behaviour taking into consideration the rest of the ad. That was a stupid addition and honestly did sour my overall take on it even though I do agree with its message - be a better version of yourself.

 

[Moonbeam]

To extol men to be the best they can be is the same as saying that men are toxic?

Really?

This is to me the same unconscious assumptions about the rectitude of ones moral position absent the recognition that you may hold that belief, it's good that men strive to be the best they can be, and what you believe what the best men can be is really not the best they can be. What if you believe the best men can be is to take a moral stance of anything and everything they may have been told is masculine in their past. I will not cede to you the right to tell me that your idea of what the best a man can be IS the best he can be and I would certainly hope you would not take my word for what that is either. I define bigotry as a belief in the good that is based on a conditioned unconscious acceptance it is good, usually based on some sacred text, but equally, based on the unconscious uncritical acceptance of some current widespread consensus-held cultural norm.

So what I see happening is that the radical right's utter rejection of sanity has set you off as a deeply rational person as the right has been set off by reason's challenge to blind faith. And I can't climb on your horse because I see no threat to faith by reason and no threat to reason by its rejection. I have faith in faith and reason. My faith is in reason which tells me not to believe anything that certainty is a grinding machine.

My sympathies to you @Zorba . You have stepped into the grinding machine. You have challenged a growing disease on the left, that any challenge to their moral certainty must be eliminated. Remember, the Startrek episode, I think it was called Nomad??? Must eliminate error Must eliminate error Must eliminate error.........?

 

[Zorba]

I didn't see it that way at all. Which parts of the ad do you believe implied that most men are assholes? I saw it as a message for all men, asshole or not, to be a better version of themselves. I thought the ad directed assholes to stop being assholes and non-assholes (the majority) to be more proactive, call out and stop assholish behaviour when they see it. I wouldn't say it was calling most men assholes.

I was just making an observation, not accusing you of anything. You said, imagine if this happened, and I pointed out that that happens all the time, and usually no one cares.

I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with friendly roughhousing. I disagree with you that the commercial implied that the majority of men are assholes.
It would seem that appealing to our better natures is considered offensive now.

Where I get that it is implied that it is most men is the line "a few of us are already doing something" implying most aren't. The other is the 30 guys watching what I think is supposed to be one kid beating up another kid all zoned out until finally one did something. Implying 29 out of 30 guys wouldn't do anything.

I agree with you that people generalize disadvantaged groups all the time, but I can't really think of a major commercial campaign doing it lately. Either way it is wrong, but it is different when it is a random person on the internet vs a major ad campaign.

I'll admit, if I just saw it on TV and hadn't seen anything else about it I'm not sure I would've thought that much about it.

 

[Vic]

This is to me the same unconscious assumptions about the rectitude of ones moral position absent the recognition that you may hold that belief, it's good that men strive to be the best they can be, and what you believe what the best men can be is really not the best they can be. What if you believe the best men can be is to take a moral stance of anything and everything they may have been told is masculine in their past. I will not cede to you the right to tell me that your idea of what the best a man can be IS the best he can be and I would certainly hope you would not take my word for what that is either. I define bigotry as a belief in the good that is based on a conditioned unconscious acceptance it is good, usually based on some sacred text, but equally, based on the unconscious uncritical acceptance of some current widespread consensus-held cultural norm.

So what I see happening is that the radical right's utter rejection of sanity has set you off as a deeply rational person as the right has been set off by reason's challenge to blind faith. And I can't climb on your horse because I see no threat to faith by reason and no threat to reason by its rejection. I have faith in faith and reason. My faith is in reason which tells me not to believe anything that certainty is a grinding machine.

My sympathies to you @Zorba . You have stepped into the grinding machine. You have challenged a growing disease on the left, that any challenge to their moral certainty must be eliminated. Remember, the Startrek episode, I think it was called Nomad??? Must eliminate error Must eliminate error Must eliminate error.........?

I get it that being told I can be better comes with the implication that I am imperfect. But I'm ok with that because I want to be better and I know that the only way to get there is to acknowledge my imperfections and learn from them.

Your bipolar right and left bit is bothering me again though. I think I've said this before, but there are no brain defects that divide us. The reality is that it is mostly fictions and tribalism and (most of all) isolation that divide us. If we ever actually sat down and talked like friends, even the most radical righty with the most radical lefty, we'd find out that we agree far more often than we disagree.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'll just leave this here....

 

[Aikouka]

Personally, I think people are just overreacting to the ad.. which isn't really much of an ad but more like a statement from a company. The only ad-like material is right at the beginning where they quote their old slogan. Although, I guess you could argue that it does put their name in the news, and as the saying goes "no news is bad news." But anyway, I wanted to touch a bit on the content. I see a lot of remarks all over about the video being "anti-men" or "anti-masculinity", but I don't see that at all. From what I can see, the point is to not treat others poorly and don't stand by while others are mistreated. If you're the type of person that follows that sort of code, then this video isn't meant in any way negative toward you.

So... I mean... consider chilling out about it. It really isn't a big deal. Frankly, if I want to complain about Gillette, I'll complain about how expensive their products are.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Personally, I think people are just overreacting to the ad.. which isn't really much of an ad but more like a statement from a company. The only ad-like material is right at the beginning where they quote their old slogan. Although, I guess you could argue that it does put their name in the news, and as the saying goes "no news is bad news." But anyway, I wanted to touch a bit on the content. I see a lot of remarks all over about the video being "anti-men" or "anti-masculinity", but I don't see that at all. From what I can see, the point is to not treat others poorly and don't stand by while others are mistreated. If you're the type of person that follows that sort of code, then this video isn't meant in any way negative toward you.

So... I mean... consider chilling out about it. It really isn't a big deal. Frankly, if I want to complain about Gillette, I'll complain about how expensive their products are.

I get the general sentiment... but..... I think a simple feasible argument is that if you were to reverse the Ad and instead do it on females, would you get the same result? Or would you get pitchforks and Molotov cocktails in your window?

See my video above for an equivalent. It wouldn't fly. No one would allow it - because there would be WAAAAAY more uproar than what you are seeing now.

 

[Moonbeam]

I get it that being told I can be better comes with the implication that I am imperfect. But I'm ok with that because I want to be better and I know that the only way to get there is to acknowledge my imperfections and learn from them.

Your bipolar right and left bit is bothering me again though. I think I've said this before, but there are no brain defects that divide us. The reality is that it is mostly fictions and tribalism and (most of all) isolation that divide us. If we ever actually sat down and talked like friends, even the most radical righty with the most radical lefty, we'd find out that we agree far more often than we disagree.

If I may say so, I don't think I'm the one with the bipolar issue. Take this for example: "it is mostly fictions and tribalism and (most of all) isolation that divide us" Who would you say the typical lefty would define as having those problems? Is it the right that lives in an alternate reality bubble,obsessed with diseased rapist Mexicans and bomb vested Muslims that live in fly-over. backwater, six-fingered , idiot villages? My feeling is that I get tagged with defending the 'cretins' because I point out how the left views them that way and that's a big part of the problem I think.

 

[Aikouka]

I get the general sentiment... but..... I think a simple feasible argument is that if you were to reverse the Ad and instead do it on females, would you get the same result? Or would you get pitchforks and Molotov cocktails in your window?

See my video above for an equivalent. It wouldn't fly. No one would allow it - because there would be WAAAAAY more uproar than what you are seeing now.

I don't think there would be an uproar as long as it was made with realistic problems. For example, what if you did a video on promoting ending things such as slut shaming or upholding unrealistic beauty standards being propped up by glamour magazines? I don't see either of those being bad messages that would be rebuked. Personally, I think the beauty industry needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

Could Gillette do a video for women? Well, I guess if they wanted to use their Venus line to do it... I guess they could. Although, arguably, as noted by the inclusion of talking about #metoo, the video they did make was more topical.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't think there would be an uproar as long as it was made with realistic problems. For example, what if you did a video on promoting ending things such as slut shaming or upholding unrealistic beauty standards being propped up by glamour magazines? I don't see either of those being bad messages that would be rebuked. Personally, I think the beauty industry needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

Could Gillette do a video for women? Well, I guess if they wanted to use their Venus line to do it... I guess they could. Although, arguably, as noted by the inclusion of talking about #metoo, the video they did make was more topical.

How about fucking underage grade school students like the video says? I mean, it's only child rape by legal definition, no big deal though amirite? It's only something that is completely dominiated by women. We can reverse this situation all day and night, I guaran-fucking-tee you that no media company will have the balls to air such a thing. It's not about what is good for the culture, it's about what is good for their wallet. Come to grips with reality.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Of course I consider such things. I have stated a few times on here that I'm not an ardent admirer of Trump. But, unlike some on here, I've not lost my sanity when it comes to discussing issues. Not saying that I'm always right. Not saying that I'm unwilling to learn from people with differing opinions. I've criticized the political elites on the right several times on this board. I just can't deal with the my sh*t don't stink attitude that most of the elites on the left have these days.

'Toxic masculinity' has NOTHING to do with masculinity. Those types are plainly and simply scum.

There. Happy now? Nah, you're not. The only thing acceptable to the left is total submission to their ideas without any form of disagreement. I'll be content to be little old me. I do my best to live my MLK's dream to judge people by their character, not by identity politics and politically approved victimhood.

That too is unacceptable to some on the left these days.

This is why I stay away. It has NOTHING to do with our current president.

Or you know, you can consider why conservatives vote for a dude who injects himself into social movements in a regular basis and not act surprised when it comes up.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/10/politics/trump-rally-mocks-me-too/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

I'm sorry your feels got fucked. I'll try harder to be the guy conservatives want me to be, lol.

 

[Jhhnn]

Of course I consider such things. I have stated a few times on here that I'm not an ardent admirer of Trump. But, unlike some on here, I've not lost my sanity when it comes to discussing issues. Not saying that I'm always right. Not saying that I'm unwilling to learn from people with differing opinions. I've criticized the political elites on the right several times on this board. I just can't deal with the my sh*t don't stink attitude that most of the elites on the left have these days.

'Toxic masculinity' has NOTHING to do with masculinity. Those types are plainly and simply scum.

There. Happy now? Nah, you're not. The only thing acceptable to the left is total submission to their ideas without any form of disagreement. I'll be content to be little old me. I do my best to live my MLK's dream to judge people by their character, not by identity politics and politically approved victimhood.

That too is unacceptable to some on the left these days.

This is why I stay away. It has NOTHING to do with our current president.

Project often?