Girl decides to get the #1 worst degree in the USA, now whines about no jobs.

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ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Jesus H Christ, not this shit again. 95% of Americans do jobs that will be replaced by "intelligent enough" computers and robots. If you believe that's not a problem for our current economic system, then you're simply an idiot.

Looks like I picked the correct career path then!

<< Designs "intelligent enough" systems
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Our library is awesome. My google-fu is as good as anyone's but when I need something in depth or arcane, the librarians come through. I don't know where people got the idea that a search engine has access to everything, but there are tons of sites that don't get crawled by search engines.

Last visit, I was looking for information on an particular area of trust administration and none of the books on trusts they had addressed it. The librarian said she'd do some research and email me. Next day I get an email to come in because she found the information. They have access to a database with full-text articles from a magazine on the subject (costs $400 a year!) - and there was an article with the exact info I needed. Probably saved me a couple hundred in legal fees right there. That stuff isn't available to search engines.
 

mcvickj

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2001
4,602
0
76
I worked IT for a large public library system for 13.5 years. It was a great place to work but the biggest issue in recent years was funding cuts at the city & state levels. People seem to think that you can get it all on the Internet and why should I pay taxes to support the library. A library is so much more than books. Ours had a wide range of DVDs, CDs, eBooks, Audio Books and online databases. Along with the many wonderful programs throughout the year. Each event was free to attend. There are some very dedicated and skillful librarians who do so much more than just look up your answer on Google. The entry level Librarian 1 was walking in and making almost 50k to start.
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
81
If Bobber didn't try to generalize from one very specific and limited form of research to the wider world, I might give his opinion greater weight. You seem to think enough baby steps in computer science will eventually replace the intelligent application of the human computer. While you have a great deal of company in these forums, you're all wrong.

No matter how great the fervent hopes of basement dwellers across the globe are who yearn for the halcyon days of never having to interact directly with another human being while, having every fantasy delivered directly to their brain by fiber optic implants, believes it to be the ultimate freedom, those of us who can still think will tuck you in, wipe the drool from your mouth and, go on building real accomplishments while you dream.

Even if we accept your argument about the perpetual superiority of humans at helping people find information (which I don't), it doesn't necessarily mean that the current model of local physical libraries each with one or more librarians on staff is superior to more centralized electronic libraries.

For example, imagine that all the primary and secondary schools libraries in a particular state were replaced by a centralized digital library. In addition to standard guides for finding information on common topics, the state could have librarians on staff to answer students' questions by phone or chat. This would be much more efficient as it would eliminate most of the administrative work that your local public school librarian actually spends their time doing, and would also allow for more specialization. It's a win/win for students and taxpayers.
 

Gunbuster

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,852
23
81
Protip: going on NBC news to complain about not getting hired or taken seriously, wear more than the t-shirt/rumpled hoodie combo.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
What frustrates Hanna Newberg about her life right now isn't just that she's working as a waitress at a chain restaurant or renting a small apartment in western Massachusetts. The problem, Newberg says, is that she did everything she was told she was supposed to do -- went to college, went to graduate school -- and still, she's waiting tables.

This is the issue. Parents and society delude young people into thinking that life will be secure if you follow these exact steps:

1) Go to College
2) Go to Grad School
3) Get a great paying job
4) Start a family
5) Save for retirement
6) Go off into the sunset...

There are ZERO guarantees in life honey! I like this quote from Helen Keller:

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
Her thesis: The Dewey Decimal System: Our Last Defense Against Terrorism.

This woman is a raging moron.

But, at least she is working somewhere to make some $$$ to pay for her rent and pot.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
The father is talking about how finding a job with a decent employer funded pension system is difficult to find anymore. And he would be correct. In NJ we have a HUGE dilemma with our teacher/police officer/fireman pension system. The money just isn't there, and this is what people need to realize. The way that we did things in the past just doesn't work anymore. The party is over. This is what most Americans have a difficult time grasping.

We are witnessing a major shift. The middle class is truly disappearing.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
Jesus H Christ, not this shit again. 95% of Americans do jobs that will be replaced by "intelligent enough" computers and robots. If you believe that's not a problem for our current economic system, then you're simply an idiot.

In the not too distant past, 98% of Americans were farmers. Today, only 2%, and we throw food away we have so damn much of it.

We also had buildings full of women manually connecting phone calls, now that work can be done by a Cisco router. We had teams of men cutting ice from mountain ponds, then a whole network of delivery trucks to get it to everyone's houses. We had rooms full of men crunching numbers that can now be replaced with a spreadsheet. The word sabotage itself is from a 15th century protest against automation of textile looms.

Do we have 99% unemployment because all these jobs were automated away? Of course not.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
In the not too distant past, 98% of Americans were farmers. Today, only 2%, and we throw food away we have so damn much of it.

We also had buildings full of women manually connecting phone calls, now that work can be done by a Cisco router. We had teams of men cutting ice from mountain ponds, then a whole network of delivery trucks to get it to everyone's houses. We had rooms full of men crunching numbers that can now be replaced with a spreadsheet. The word sabotage itself is from a 15th century protest against automation of textile looms.

Do we have 99% unemployment because all these jobs were automated away? Of course not.

America is per capita one of the wealthiest country in the world. It is also has some of the worst income inequality. Many countries have way lower wealth, but way better standards of living and employment rates. Why? Because money isn't exclusively in the hands of CEOs and investors, and because they don't outsource all their jobs, and the governments heavily fund industries and education programs so that people do have jobs.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
America is per capita one of the wealthiest country in the world. It is also has some of the worst income inequality. Many countries have way lower wealth, but way better standards of living and employment rates. Why? Because money isn't exclusively in the hands of CEOs and investors, and because they don't outsource all their jobs, and the governments heavily fund industries and education programs so that people do have jobs.

lol riiiight. The gov saved us!
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
You can lambaste her for the degree choice, but there are very few "safe" choices any more. Accounting/Tax work, Finance, IT/Programming, R&D... you name it. They're all being outsourced to India, the Philippines, China and others. Seems like if you're not actually getting your hands dirty in a medical job working directly with patient care the future can be pretty iffy.

As someone that works for a company that "outsources" to India in the Finance world I can truthfully say they make very little difference.

It's when we have some mind-numbing tedious task that would take any human a large amount of mindless time that we say "Send it to India". Needless to say, I'm not worried one bit. Business is as safe as you can get.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
As someone that works for a company that "outsources" to India in the Finance world I can truthfully say they make very little difference.

It's when we have some mind-numbing tedious task that would take any human a large amount of mindless time that we say "Send it to India". Needless to say, I'm not worried one bit. Business is as safe as you can get.

The big you're-gonna-get-outsourced-to-India scare died out last decade.

Software dev would be one of the EASIEST jobs to outsource, but the more companies tried it, the more they ended up bringing projects back to the USA. US devs are simply better problem solvers. Indians make good doctors, but by and large, are pretty bad compared to US workers when it comes to creative work.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
In the not too distant past, 98% of Americans were farmers. Today, only 2%, and we throw food away we have so damn much of it.

We also had buildings full of women manually connecting phone calls, now that work can be done by a Cisco router. We had teams of men cutting ice from mountain ponds, then a whole network of delivery trucks to get it to everyone's houses. We had rooms full of men crunching numbers that can now be replaced with a spreadsheet. The word sabotage itself is from a 15th century protest against automation of textile looms.

Do we have 99% unemployment because all these jobs were automated away? Of course not.

1. Someone has to physically make those Cisco routers. -Manufacturing/Production/Distribution Jobs
2. Someone has to design and test those Cisco routers. -R&D/Testing Jobs
3. Someone has to maintain those routers. -Customer Service/Support Jobs, as well as Firmware Updates.
4. Someone has to install those routers for customers -Setup Jobs.

I can go on-and-on-and-on for each of those examples of how one job closure opens a slew of more.

Some things, however, are competition issues - such as the farmers issue. The fact that we have so few is an actual competitive PROBLEM that should be addressed. But that's a different story.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
America is per capita one of the wealthiest country in the world. It is also has some of the worst income inequality. Many countries have way lower wealth, but way better standards of living and employment rates. Why? Because money isn't exclusively in the hands of CEOs and investors, and because they don't outsource all their jobs, and the governments heavily fund industries and education programs so that people do have jobs.

Also, other governments actually protect their citizens. In Thailand foreigners aren't allowed to purchase land. They also aren't allowed to do jobs that a Thai person can do. Retiring in Thailand can be quite difficult, because you need to have a certain amount of money in a Thai bank account.

Compare that to the American system. Anybody can come to America. They can work at any job. They can collect welfare and government assistance. They can attend college for free or at a very low cost. Maybe this is what makes us a great country?
 
Last edited:

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
1. Someone has to physically make those Cisco routers. -Manufacturing/Production/Distribution Jobs
2. Someone has to design and test those Cisco routers. -R&D/Testing Jobs
3. Someone has to maintain those routers. -Customer Service/Support Jobs, as well as Firmware Updates.
4. Someone has to install those routers for customers -Setup Jobs.

I can go on-and-on-and-on for each of those examples of how one job closure opens a slew of more.
that's the point.

Some things, however, are competition issues - such as the farmers issue. The fact that we have so few is an actual competitive PROBLEM that should be addressed. But that's a different story.
Do you know what the driving factor of farm consolidation in the USA is?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
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Do you know what the driving factor of farm consolidation in the USA is?

No, I don't. But I'm sure it's a number of factors stemming from things like GMOs (Large farming corps finding efficient means to quickly produce, leaving traditional farmers in the dust).

There is *STARTING* to be a comeback with things like farmers markets cropping up in towns - but I doubt that is going to explode since too many still rely on only what the grocery store sells.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
No, I don't. But I'm sure it's a number of factors stemming from things like GMOs (Large farming corps finding efficient means to quickly produce, leaving traditional farmers in the dust).

There is *STARTING* to be a comeback with things like farmers markets cropping up in towns - but I doubt that is going to explode since too many still rely on only what the grocery store sells.

Nope. Farms merging is a direct results of Federal Farm Subsidies. That darn gov saving us some more.
 

ctbaars

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,568
163
106
Hellen Keller said:
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
Awesome quote. Just forwarded to my three girls in college.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Nope. Farms merging is a direct results of Federal Farm Subsidies. That darn gov saving us some more.

So why aren't new ones cropping up? Explain more....

I have a friend out in Arizona trying to farm and she keeps complaining how hard it is for her to startup anything (IE: Can't place words like "organic" or "natural" even though they totally are, she has to pay a huge ass fee in order to be able to put those words on them).
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
So why aren't new ones cropping up? Explain more....

I have a friend out in Arizona trying to farm and she keeps complaining how hard it is for her to startup anything (IE: Can't place words like "organic" or "natural" even though they totally are, she has to pay a huge ass fee in order to be able to put those words on them).

Because the larger the farm, the larger the subsidy, the easier it is to price out small/startups.

That's why most farms either merged or sold out to larger corp run farms.

Similar to how corp taxes actually help the biggest corps. Only huge companies can funnel money through Dutch & Irish loopholes like Google and Apple do.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
Two weeks ago, I spent an evening with three college friends who all live out in the Bay Area. One is the Global Executive for Data Analytics for one the largest marketing/ad firms in the world. The other is a software developer for a large CAD software firm (whose wife also works as a programmer for Apple). The third designs hardware AND software for meteorological satellites for UC Berkeley. They are three of the smartest people I know and we spent a good 4-5 hours just talking about the future...the singularity, etc. How it's not just coming, it's already here. How the future of UBER is self-driving cars and what they are doing now is simply collecting data on human travel and traffic patterns. How Google is not a search engine company but an AI company. How Oculus is a military front company in Silicon Valley. How such companies are developing technologies to identify people by their walking gate. And that's the tip of the iceberg. How ISIS is a plea to return to a "cave man" society as a response to the rapid technological convergence of man and machine, etc. On and on the conversations went.

Put simply, the future is rapidly becoming now, driven by a handful of very powerful people. And many of these people will tell you that traditional notions of government and culture are simply too slow to react to where we are going.

Driverless cars are coming. Then driverless trucks and delivery vehicles. Delivery and utility drones are coming. Then pilotless planes. Gone will also be most customer service agents. Gone. Gone. Gone. But people are still having babies. The world's population is getting bigger. Where will people work? How will they earn a paycheck? You think your degree is worthless now? Pretty soon programmers and coders won't be needed either because machines will do that even better.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
1. Someone has to physically assemble those Cisco routers. -Manufacturing/Production/Distribution Jobs
2. Someone has to design and test those Cisco routers. -R&D/Testing Jobs
3. Someone has to maintain those routers. -Customer Service/Support Jobs, as well as Firmware Updates.
4. Someone has to install those routers for customers -Setup Jobs.

I can go on-and-on-and-on for each of those examples of how one job closure opens a slew of fewer.
FTFY. The more efficient production does not open doors to more better jobs, it opens doors to fewer jobs--whatever the displaced can find. Those jobs may pay more, sometimes, but less people are going to be required to maintain the router-building machines than were required before, when humans were doing it all. Eventually the humans assembling modules that the machines actually made will be replaced, just as the people actually making all the parts were years ago, and the people maintaining the previous machines will just learn how to maintain the new ones in addition. Not only that, but machines don't even have to do the replacing. Chinese lives don't mean squat, so they can do just as well as human labor, to the same effect as machines (and, without even having all that domestic maintenance to pay for).

The R&D and service jobs are likely to stay, but the rest are just one economic innovation away from removing the number of available jobs, while the available workforce is not shrinking to match. Even the service jobs can get to needing less time per worker per issue, leading to fewer total service workers needed, over time. For example, there's no reason most of it could not be done remotely, removing the need for amny costly local service workers.

The doors don't open that way. They just close. Opening them is an entirely different effort, and needs demand, and the ability to supply it. The magic thinking that greater efficiency opened doors is from a bygone era when potential production capacity and demand for goods were both inconceivably larger than what our entire workforce could manage (post-WWII into the 70s, at least, there was a constant shortage of domestic labor). Without a large and healthy industrial base, which we largely don't have anymore, new wealth is mostly being created elsewhere, by others, with jobs, and related spending, that we are only very lightly connected to, and which do not represent any new opportunities for us.

Short of an unlikely huge cultural shift in values, that's not likely to change any time soon, either. By and large, this has been coming down based on the short-term wants of several generations in succession. Deluding kids into thinking they will have opportunity if they just do what they're told, and buy what they're sold, doesn't help, either (but, hey, it pacifies them for ~20 years), nor do colleges being allowed to be disconnected from the job markets, while pretending to prepare students for jobs (though, is that any worse than a public babysitting institution pretending to prepare students for jobs or college, yet doing neither?).
 
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