Give Trump a chance

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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
Last time I checked there's a review of our vetting practices that's currently underway and we'll likely have an answer to your question when the review is completed. Apparently you think current practices are fine regardless of concerns expressed by the FBI. I personally believe that these concerns should be evaluated and a review of the process is prudent. We disagree...it's as simple as that.


Why did you assume I think current practices are fine?
 

Catriona

Senior member
May 10, 2012
976
18
81
Excellent choices in the President's cabinet for one. His Executive Orders for two. His choice of Supreme Court nominee for three.

I'll reserve judgment on the SCOTUS nominee for now. But I would be most interested to hear the reasons Sessions, DeVos, Price, Ross and Perry are excellent choices. And it would also be nice if you could explain what, besides chaos and confusion, his EOs have actually accomplished .
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Which is worse is an irrelevant argument. Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, one of the most troubling things these days IMO is that that seems to be the only argument that Republicans have any more. You'll desperately search for some false equivalence (I've never defended Obama for that), and then use it as a phony excuse to cry hypocrisy, when it's really just an excuse for partisanship. It's transparent and it's childish. And the more people see that our entire country is being run by people who think like that, the more worried and the less confident they're going to become.

The supremely court is much more of a political organ given the justices are literally appointed almost entirely for their political views. This compared to someone appointed by Bush Sr in any case.

The thing to notice about these "discussions" is that only one side actually cares about facts, so the two parties in play are doing fundamentally different things.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
The supremely court is much more of a political organ given the justices are literally appointed almost entirely for their political views.
I understand that. And that the same can be said for almost any judgeship.
But when it comes to interpretations of the law, I'm going to trust someone who has demonstrated at least some knowledge and understanding of the law over someone who has demonstrated neither of those and is clearly just grandstanding.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Give Trump a chance? Who are we to give him a chance? Do you honestly think people have ANY power at all to change what Trump does or doesn't do?

Your owners have got you under control.

They give you a D or an R and you happily accept this nonsense. You vote every cycle and encourage others to vote.

Your owners laugh at you.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I understand that. And that the same can be said for almost any judgeship.
But when it comes to interpretations of the law, I'm going to trust someone who has demonstrated at least some knowledge and understanding of the law over someone who has demonstrated neither of those and is clearly just grandstanding.

The judge in question was appointed by Bush Sr.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Which is worse is an irrelevant argument. Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, one of the most troubling things these days IMO is that that seems to be the only argument that Republicans have any more. You'll desperately search for some false equivalence (I've never defended Obama for that), and then use it as a phony excuse to cry hypocrisy, when it's really just an excuse for partisanship. It's transparent and it's childish. And the more people see that our entire country is being run by people who think like that, the more worried and the less confident they're going to become.

He's comparing apples & aardvarks, anyway. Obama's rebuke was respectful. Trump's was anything but.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Give Trump a chance? Who are we to give him a chance? Do you honestly think people have ANY power at all to change what Trump does or doesn't do?

Your owners have got you under control.

They give you a D or an R and you happily accept this nonsense. You vote every cycle and encourage others to vote.

Your owners laugh at you.

I figure if TrumpCo gets called on their lies often enough that they won't be able to take us completely post-truth.

Other than that, you merely preach a different brand of negativity that the Trumpsters.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
After getting to know of him over the past year. He's acting exactly as I imagined he would. The best you can say about him is that his behavior and actions really come as no surprise. His personal and business dealings over the last couple decades showed us exactly what sort of a person he is. He is, and always has been, in it for Donald Trump. Winning, profiting and glorification, that's what he wants. And it seems he will run the presidency the same way.

Look at his disdain for an independent judiciary. A key safeguard against tyranny and he attacks it barely two weeks in. That tells you everything about his character and confirms that no, this humbling important role as leader of the free world isn't changing him. He is under a small amount of pressure now and is already reverting to type. And the pressure is only going to get greater as he has to deal with actual, real world events of and not of his own making.

Many people ask what politicians fear most "Events, dear boy, events" I suspect Trump has none of that self-awareness or humility. Even after the crowning achievement of his life, the honor of being elected President of this great country, Trump remains a dreadful human being and the best anyone can hope for is that the constitutional and legal protections built into the system prevent him from doing too much damage.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Yeah, no. I objected to your post, and you replied to me with:
The context of my comments were obviously lost on you.

Then you misread my post. I'm not attempting to dehumanize you. I'm simply stating that you clearly have no empathy for the dead in the picture (based on my observation of your post history). You don't post it because you truly care, you post it to score cheap points and to divert from the issues being discussed. Spare us all your crocodile tears.
You say you know my posting history, yet you seem oblivious to my passion about Libya and my disgust over the horrible things we've done there. It's now plain to see that there's really no reason to continue wasting each other's time here.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
After getting to know of him over the past year. He's acting exactly as I imagined he would. The best you can say about him is that his behavior and actions really come as no surprise. His personal and business dealings over the last couple decades showed us exactly what sort of a person he is. He is, and always has been, in it for Donald Trump. Winning, profiting and glorification, that's what he wants. And it seems he will run the presidency the same way.

Look at his disdain for an independent judiciary. A key safeguard against tyranny and he attacks it barely two weeks in. That tells you everything about his character and confirms that no, this humbling important role as leader of the free world isn't changing him. He is under a small amount of pressure now and is already reverting to type. And the pressure is only going to get greater as he has to deal with actual, real world events of and not of his own making.

Many people ask what politicians fear most "Events, dear boy, events" I suspect Trump has none of that self-awareness or humility. Even after the crowning achievement of his life, the honor of being elected President of this great country, Trump remains a dreadful human being and the best anyone can hope for is that the constitutional and legal protections built into the system prevent him from doing too much damage.

Sad but true.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
I figure if TrumpCo gets called on their lies often enough that they won't be able to take us completely post-truth.

Other than that, you merely preach a different brand of negativity that the Trumpsters.
Ok, but realize that your no different than the "other" side. The "other" side thinks you and people you support are just as bad as you think Trump is. There is so much anti-Hillary stuff out there it is crazy. These people call Obama a Muslim, a traitor etc nonstop.

Yeah Trump is bad. He might be the worst thing to happen. His winning shows how much humanity has fallen.

But move beyond your partisanship. Look beyond political affiliations. It's much deeper than that.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,022
600
126
The context of my comments were obviously lost on you.

If you say so.

You say you know my posting history, yet you seem oblivious to my passion about Libya and my disgust over the horrible things we've done there. It's now plain to see that there's really no reason to continue wasting each other's time here.

I'm aware of how you feel about our actions in Libya, but it seems (to me at least) that the main reason it's such a big issue to you is because it happened under a Democrat administration. I don't recall ever seeing you post pics of dead Iraqis.

But you're right, this is a waste of time (and a big diversion). I'm done.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Ok, but realize that your no different than the "other" side. The "other" side thinks you and people you support are just as bad as you think Trump is. There is so much anti-Hillary stuff out there it is crazy. These people call Obama a Muslim, a traitor etc nonstop.

Yeah Trump is bad. He might be the worst thing to happen. His winning shows how much humanity has fallen.

But move beyond your partisanship. Look beyond political affiliations. It's much deeper than that.

I reaize that you're trying to establish false equivalency between people who value facts, respect, common decency & compassion with those who do not.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Appeals court panel rules unanimously against Trump travel ban
A federal appeals court on Thursday bluntly rejected President Donald Trump's attempt to revive his controversial travel ban executive order, giving no ground under unusual public pressure from the president himself.

A three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Thursday unanimously turned down the Justice Department’s request to lift a Seattle-based judge’s restraining order blocking authorities from carrying out the limits Trump sought to impose on travel to the U.S. by citizens of seven majority-Muslim countries and by refugees from across the globe.


In an unsparing 29-page ruling, the judges said Trump's order appears to deprive many affected foreigners of their rights without providing the legal process the Constitution requires.

"The Government has not shown that the Executive Order provides what due process requires, such as notice and a hearing prior to restricting an individual’s ability to travel. Indeed, the Government does not contend that the Executive Order provides for such process," the 9th Circuit ruling says.

The judges also appeared to bristle at the starkness of some of the legal arguments Justice Department lawyers offered in the case, including a contention that orders such as Trump's should not be subject to scrutiny by the courts.

"The Government has taken the position that the President’s decisions about immigration policy, particularly when motivated by national security concerns, are unreviewable, even if those actions potentially contravene constitutional rights and protections," the court wrote. "There is no precedent to support this claimed unreviewability, which runs contrary to the fundamental structure of our constitutional democracy....The Supreme Court has repeatedly and explicitly rejected the notion that the political branches have unreviewable authority over immigration or are not subject to the Constitution when policymaking in that context."
lol.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

It's worth quoting the ruling-

The Government has taken the position that the President’s decisions about immigration policy, particularly when motivated by national security concerns, are unreviewable, even if those actions potentially contravene constitutional rights and protections," the court wrote. "There is no precedent to support this claimed unreviewability, which runs contrary to the fundamental structure of our constitutional democracy....The Supreme Court has repeatedly and explicitly rejected the notion that the political branches have unreviewable authority over immigration or are not subject to the Constitution when policymaking in that context.

It'll only further the entrenchment of his base in their bunker 'o denial, sad to say. He also gets a scapegoat in the event that such an attack should penetrate our defenses.

The rest? He really doesn't care because he's locked in for 4 years & there's damned little anybody will be able to do about it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,575
146
It's worth quoting the ruling-



It'll only further the entrenchment of his base in their bunker 'o denial, sad to say. He also gets a scapegoat in the event that such an attack should penetrate our defenses.

The rest? He really doesn't care because he's locked in for 4 years & there's damned little anybody will be able to do about it.

It's amazing how profoundly stupid these guys are in the Oval office: Yeah, let's argue that our orders are unreviewable by anyone because we are POTUS and therefore always right. ...wait, what is a federal judge?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
What does "give Trump a chance" even mean? We don't have any choice but to give him a chance to be POTUS, because he's legally the POTUS. So far as not criticizing him? Sorry, no. Not only do we have a right of free speech but so far as I'm concerned, we have a civic duty to keep our president honest. What good is there in keeping our mouths shut while a president lies and/or is corrupt? Does "give Trump a chance" mean we wait some fixed amount of time, say 6 months, while he's dishonest and corrupt before pointing it out? Bull.
I actually think all these attacks help the country. Every President comes in with a certain amount of political capital that he can use for virtually anything. After that, he needs popular support to act. The attacks on Obama drove him to be more moderate, and hopefully the attacks on Trump will do the same. Not immediately, but eventually Congressional Republicans will feel the heat and be less willing to act except where there is broad bipartisan public support. That can only be a good thing for any President, in my opinion. If something doesn't have broad support, then the government probably shouldn't be doing it. The lone exception off the top of my head would be minority civil rights (like gay marriage) where something may be morally imperative in and of itself but not yet acceptable to the majority. Those are the examples where leaders need to lead us in directions we might otherwise ignore since it isn't our ox being gored. Beyond that, I prefer that our leaders lead us where we all already want to go.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81

That woman stole a American citizen's identity...do you know how bad that is, and how much that can mess up the victim's life?? She is a scumbag to do that and deserves to be deported out of here forever, i have seen people who are truely disabled and yet they had to go literally a year or even 2 years with no disability income or even basic help like foodstamps...because their identity was stolen and they had to prove who they are and that takes alot of time. Not to mention cases where if there are warrants out for the person who stole your identity, if you get pulled over for running a red light, well now the police think YOU caused those crimes that have warrants out for you - its a mess. But its so common. The illegals cause far more trouble than just hopping a border in many cases, identity theft is probably the most common damage done to American citizens by illegal aliens.

Also, the economic theft is another factor. Did she collect Welfare and foodstamps using the stolen identity to? She stole directly from American citizens if she did. Did she vote using her fake identity, thereby meddling with our elections? I dont see why she wouldnt be able to.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
That woman stole a American citizen's identity...do you know how bad that is, and how much that can mess up the victim's life?? She is a scumbag to do that and deserves to be deported out of here forever, i have seen people who are truely disabled and yet they had to go literally a year or even 2 years with no disability income or even basic help like foodstamps...because their identity was stolen and they had to prove who they are and that takes alot of time. Not to mention cases where if there are warrants out for the person who stole your identity, if you get pulled over for running a red light, well now the police think YOU caused those crimes that have warrants out for you - its a mess. But its so common. The illegals cause far more trouble than just hopping a border in many cases, identity theft is probably the most common damage done to American citizens by illegal aliens.

Also, the economic theft is another factor. Did she collect Welfare and foodstamps using the stolen identity to? She stole directly from American citizens if she did. Did she vote using her fake identity, thereby meddling with our elections? I dont see why she wouldnt be able to.

When one suffers from the vapours it often helps if you clutch your pearls tightly.
 
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