Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourettes

[Red Dawn]

In the case of Arizona, I don't think they are worried too much about them illegal hozers. Not sure if you were sarcastic or not, though..

I'm not even sure that combatting Canadian illegals would be worth the cost of enforcement, would it? I have absolutely no numbers to back that up, but it would seem like a Canadian citizen would be much less likely to work for sub-minimum wage paychecks and ship their earnings north.

So you'd support racial profiling? That's exactly what it'd be if they were to check the person's immigration status solely based on his race. If that's the way they do it then there is definitely something wrong with this law. Of course the law is written so this isn't suppose to happen. The problem is making sure the LEO's follow it to the letter of the law.

I'm sure if every state adopted this law and people pulled over and not having their ID with them were detained so their immigration status could be checked there'd be huge outrage over it.

 

[MrEgo]

So you'd support racial profiling? That's exactly what it'd be if they were to check the person's immigration status solely based on his race. If that's the way they do it then there is definitely something wrong with this law. Of course the law is written so this isn't suppose to happen. The problem is making sure the LEO's follow it to the letter of the law.

I'm sure if every state adopted this law and people pulled over and not having their ID with them were detained so their immigration status could be checked there'd be huge outrage over it.

I don't know why my views on racial profiling are coming into question, because a Canadian illegal will probably know how to fluently speak English.

 

[Red Dawn]

I don't know why my views on racial profiling are coming into question, because a Canadian illegal will probably know how to fluently speak English.

Damn, I guess I didn't explain my point as well as I thought I did. I suck.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm sure if every state adopted this law and people pulled over and not having their ID with them were detained so their immigration status could be checked there'd be huge outrage over it.

I don't see how there would be any more outrage than if you get pulled over with no license and detained to verify your identity.

The problem is making sure the LEO's follow it to the letter of the law.

Shouldn't this be the case for ALL laws? All I see are comments about how the most negative circumstances will happen, what about the cops that really don't care about immigration status? I'm sure there will be plenty of under-zealous LEO that just don't care, and will ignore any in depth checks, or are more concerned with other crimes and can't be bothered with checking status.

 

[MrEgo]

We're starting to get way off topic.

 

[NFS4]

Who the fuck was Beck before he became a professional Baffoon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83tnWFojtcY

 

[xj0hnx]

We're starting to get way off topic.

Wandering is the nature of discourse. We play a child's game of why, why, why on internet forums, here's the what, discuss the whys.

 

[Red Dawn]

I don't see how there would be any more outrage than if you get pulled over with no license and detained to verify your identity.

Well first of all you aren't suppose to drive without your license with you so there's really no reason to complain. But if you left the house to go running for example and you were caught jaywalking and you didn't have any ID with you and were detained to verify the you are an American citizen or at least a legal immigrant,well it seems to me to be a little too intrusive. But if you don't mind that happening to you then fine, it would really irk me though.

 

[Red Dawn]

Shouldn't this be the case for ALL laws? All I see are comments about how the most negative circumstances will happen, what about the cops that really don't care about immigration status? I'm sure there will be plenty of under-zealous LEO that just don't care, and will ignore any in depth checks, or are more concerned with other crimes and can't be bothered with checking status.

I bet most of them would be very under zealous about that law, especially when it came to checking the status of whites.

 

[xj0hnx]

I bet most of them would be very under zealous about that law, especially when it came to checking the status of whites.

Or not. This is exactly the attitude that is the problem. You are inferring that cops are racist, and they will do their job only on Hispanics ignoring the glaringly obviousness of the situation that unfortunately the vast majority of the illegals in AZ are Hispanic which means that a very high percentage of those checked will be Hispanic, giving your asinine statement some legitimacy in a deranged mind. Of course all they have to do is follow the law, and use common sense and your position is moot.

 

[Red Dawn]

Or not. This is exactly the attitude that is the problem. You are inferring that cops are racist, and they will do their job only on Hispanics ignoring the glaringly obviousness of the situation that unfortunately the vast majority of the illegals in AZ are Hispanic which means that a very high percentage of those checked will be Hispanic, giving your asinine statement some legitimacy in a deranged mind. Of course all they have to do is follow the law, and use common sense and your position is moot.

Nothing asinine about it. If they are to administer this law fairly then they need to do this with everyone, not just Hispanics. Otherwise it's racial profilling.

 

[xj0hnx]

Nothing asinine about it. If they are to administer this law fairly then they need to do this with everyone, not just Hispanics. Otherwise it's racial profilling.

Exactly, but your assumption is that they are racist, and will not.

I bet most of them would be very under zealous about that law, especially when it came to checking the status of whites.

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly, but your assumption is that they are racist, and will not.

No not really, my assumption is that they know that the likelihood of the white person they pull over isn't going to be an illegal alien and it'll be a waste of their time. However to be totally fair they'll have to treat all the same no matter what race/ethnicity.

 

[xj0hnx]

No not really, my assumption is that they know that the likelihood of the white person they pull over isn't going to be an illegal alien and it'll be a waste of their time. However to be totally fair they'll have to treat all the same no matter what race/ethnicity.

So, what about the Hispanic cops? Since apparently white cops will unfairly under-zealously enforce the law on whites, if a Hispanic cops pulls over a white guy, and doesn't run the check, but does check a Mexican, is he a racist? Or does this whole racial profiling/racism thing only apply to the white cops?

 

[rjl]

I bet most of them would be very under zealous about that law, especially when it came to checking the status of whites.

Do you honestly think that "white" people make even a small fraction of illegal aliens in Arizona, or anywhere else for that matter? Do you think that there are enough white illegal immigrants in Arizona to reasonably suspect ANY white person of being an illegal?

According to DHS, 8.15 million illegals originate from Mexico (6,650,000), El Salvador (530,000), Guatemala (480,000), Honduras (320,000), and Ecuador (170,000). In other words 76% of those living in the United States are from just those 5 Latin or Hispanic countries. The remaining top ten countries of origin for illegals are Asian. Based on DHS number, less than one in ten illegal immigrants comes from African nations or countries we consider predominantly white.

Just going by the numbers, it wouldn't be reasonable to suspect a black guy or a white guy, who speaks English, of being an illegal alien. The Arizona law requires "reasonable suspicion" after a "lawful contact."

 

[Red Dawn]

So, what about the Hispanic cops? Since apparently white cops will unfairly under-zealously enforce the law on whites, if a Hispanic cops pulls over a white guy, and doesn't run the check, but does check a Mexican, is he a racist? Or does this whole racial profiling/racism thing only apply to the white cops?

First of all I'm not claiming anybody is a racist. Secondly I'd expect Hispanic Cops to do the same as White Cops

 

[xj0hnx]

First of all I'm not claiming anybody is a racist. Secondly I'd expect Hispanic Cops to do the same as White Cops

You said they are less likely to check a white guy ...why? Either it's because they are racist, or the chance of running into a white illegal immigrant is so remote that it's pointless.

 

[hal2kilo]

Wrong shot by a long shot. Olbermann is a partisan bound to annoy those who disagree with him, Glenn Beck really and truly IS a crazy loon MORON.

This/

 

[Red Dawn]

You said they are less likely to check a white guy ...why? Either it's because they are racist, or the chance of running into a white illegal immigrant is so remote that it's pointless.

The latter. But to be fair they have to treat everyone the same or it's racial profilling. If they can treat everyone the same then this law is OK, if they can't then it's flawed.

 

[xj0hnx]

This/

No way!!! Another leftist trying to pretend there's a difference between Olbermann and Beck? What a crazy world!!!

 

[xj0hnx]

The latter. But to be fair they have to treat everyone the same or it's racial profilling. If they can treat everyone the same then this law is OK, if they can't then it's flawed.

So then it is about race, but only because the Hispanic's are more likely to be illegal immigrants than whites? That sounds like ...racial profiling.

 

[rjl]

Actually they don't have to treat everyone the same. The reasonable suspicion standard pretty much puts that argument on ice. And the profiling isn't necessarily based on race, but country of origin. If an Hispanic or Latino person speaks English and seems to understand the whole process of dealing with police, it's not reasonable to suspect them of being illegal. Any non-English speaker who gets pulled over or lawfully detained can be reasonably ask to prove they are in the country legally. It just so happens that the vast majority of those non-English speakers in Arizona are going to be Hispanic.

To suggest that everyone has to be treated the same is irrational. There is not reasonable suspicion to believe that everyone is here illegally.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually they don't have to treat everyone the same. The reasonable suspicion standard pretty much puts that argument on ice. And the profiling isn't necessarily based on race, but country of origin. If an Hispanic or Latino person speaks English and seems to understand the whole process of dealing with police, it's not reasonable to suspect them of being illegal. Any non-English speaker who gets pulled over or lawfully detained can be reasonably ask to prove they are in the country legally. It just so happens that the vast majority of those non-English speakers in Arizona are going to be Hispanic.

To suggest that everyone has to be treated the same is irrational. There is not reasonable suspicion to believe that everyone is here illegally.

Maybe just for Arizona but what about nationwide?

 

[rjl]

Maybe just for Arizona but what about nationwide?

This particular law is in Arizona, but the numbers are still pretty valid across the country. 76% of all illegals nationwide are from 5 Hispanic/Latin American countries. Include the remaining Hispanic/Latin countries and that accounts for 8 out of 10 illegal aliens in the United States. Less than one in ten illegal aliens nationwide are from white/European or black/African countries.

Not even taking into account the numbers, if someone gets pulled over or detained for an otherwise legitimate reason, can't speak English and exhibits an overall lack of understanding, I think it's fair to inquire about their citizenship, black, white, brown or whatever. When I travel out of the country I always carry my passport and am ready to show it when asked.

But even using a reasonable suspicion standard based on language and other factors, the vast majority of those detained are going to be Hispanic/Latino for the simple fact that they comprise the overwhelming majority of illegal aliens. Some people are going to call that racial profiling, and it's not.

 

[Red Dawn]

This particular law is in Arizona, but the numbers are still pretty valid across the country. 76% of all illegals nationwide are from 5 Hispanic/Latin American countries. Include the remaining Hispanic/Latin countries and that accounts for 8 out of 10 illegal aliens in the United States. Less than one in ten illegal aliens nationwide are from white/European or black/African countries.

Not even taking into account the numbers, if someone gets pulled over or detained for an otherwise legitimate reason, can't speak English and exhibits an overall lack of understanding, I think it's fair to inquire about their citizenship, black, white, brown or whatever. When I travel out of the country I always carry my passport and am ready to show it when asked.

But even using a reasonable suspicion standard based on language and other factors, the vast majority of those detained are going to be Hispanic/Latino for the simple fact that they comprise the overwhelming majority of illegal aliens. Some people are going to call that racial profiling, and it's not.

I know, it's ethnic profiling. So we are targeting one ethnic group and not the others right? And that's fair how?