Originally posted by: Excelsior
Find me a scientific study that suggests SUVs are a large factor in our overall CO2 emissions. The impact they make is not large enough to make a fuss about, IMO. Until we start using a different energy source altogether, all cars that use gas are a part of the problem.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Official high here today was 108
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Find me a scientific study that suggests SUVs are a large factor in our overall CO2 emissions. The impact they make is not large enough to make a fuss about, IMO. Until we start using a different energy source altogether, all cars that use gas are a part of the problem.
I guess, for some people, its a hard equation.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www...es/transportation_industry/003127.html
So, lets use some logic here. If there are 24.2 million SUV's in the country, 9 million more than 5 years prior, that means that there are 9 million vehicles using roughly 75% more fuel than the standard passanger car.
Thus, considering the fact that the annual miles driven is ~12k and guestimating average SUV mpg is ~15, that would mean that each SUV consumes 800 gallons of gas per year. That is equal to 19,360,000,000 gallons of gas.
Consider that the average passenger car gets ~25mpg, or 480 gallons, and equiv number of cars will consume 12,096,000,000.
Now, consider that there are roughly 28 gallons of gas in a barrel of oil. That equals 259,428,571.42 barrels of oil difference, or $20,235,428,571 dollars annually, assuming $78/barrel.
Consider that the world consumes 75 million barrels a day, we could supply the world with oil for 3.45 days just from SUV conversion to regular passanger cars, in 2002.
Or, we can fuel the entire country for an additional 13 days just on the savings.
Consider if average mpg raised to 35 mpg. 342 gallons per car and 8,618,400,000 gallons of gas, and 307,800,000 barrels of oil. We could fuel theworld for 4 days and the US for almost 15. Just on those savings.
But hell, there is no difference. Saving the economy 20 billion dollars, polluting a hell of a lot less, and dramatically reducing the amount of oil needed is pittance to rampant consumerism.
Originally posted by: JohnCU
give it up, it's useless to argue with people who know nothing about the scientific method.
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Find me a scientific study that suggests SUVs are a large factor in our overall CO2 emissions. The impact they make is not large enough to make a fuss about, IMO. Until we start using a different energy source altogether, all cars that use gas are a part of the problem.
I guess, for some people, its a hard equation.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www...es/transportation_industry/003127.html
So, lets use some logic here. If there are 24.2 million SUV's in the country, 9 million more than 5 years prior, that means that there are 9 million vehicles using roughly 75% more fuel than the standard passanger car.
Thus, considering the fact that the annual miles driven is ~12k and guestimating average SUV mpg is ~15, that would mean that each SUV consumes 800 gallons of gas per year. That is equal to 19,360,000,000 gallons of gas.
Consider that the average passenger car gets ~25mpg, or 480 gallons, and equiv number of cars will consume 12,096,000,000.
Now, consider that there are roughly 28 gallons of gas in a barrel of oil. That equals 259,428,571.42 barrels of oil difference, or $20,235,428,571 dollars annually, assuming $78/barrel.
Consider that the world consumes 75 million barrels a day, we could supply the world with oil for 3.45 days just from SUV conversion to regular passanger cars, in 2002.
Or, we can fuel the entire country for an additional 13 days just on the savings.
Consider if average mpg raised to 35 mpg. 342 gallons per car and 8,618,400,000 gallons of gas, and 307,800,000 barrels of oil. We could fuel theworld for 4 days and the US for almost 15. Just on those savings.
But hell, there is no difference. Saving the economy 20 billion dollars, polluting a hell of a lot less, and dramatically reducing the amount of oil needed is pittance to rampant consumerism.
Excellent post! *applause* I mean it, really. I love the way you worked all of that out.
However, I said "....that suggests SUVs are a large factor in our overall CO2 emissions. "
All you did was prove that SUVs use more gas than a standard passenger car, and that if nobody drove them, we could cut down on our total use of gas, "save money", and pollute less (still waiting for some facts concerning how SUVs really affect the total amount of pollution in this country. Something tells me it is quite small (less than 2%).
I hate to break it to you, but getting rid of SUVs isn't the answer (I don't drive one, btw). I dislike "rampant consumerism" just as much as you.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: JohnCU
give it up, it's useless to argue with people who know nothing about the scientific method.
especially when Republicans do not believe in science.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: JohnCU
give it up, it's useless to argue with people who know nothing about the scientific method.
especially when Republicans do not believe in science.
Originally posted by: JohnCU
give it up, it's useless to argue with people who know nothing about the scientific method.
We could do even more by eliminating personal automobiles altogether? Why not do that?Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Isn't the idea that you consume a lot less gas, which produces Co2 when burned in an ICE, enough?
2% is 2% less than what we are using today, that is significant enough to warrant their elimination.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
We could do even more by eliminating personal automobiles altogether? Why not do that?Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Isn't the idea that you consume a lot less gas, which produces Co2 when burned in an ICE, enough?
2% is 2% less than what we are using today, that is significant enough to warrant their elimination.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
We could do even more by eliminating personal automobiles altogether? Why not do that?Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Isn't the idea that you consume a lot less gas, which produces Co2 when burned in an ICE, enough?
2% is 2% less than what we are using today, that is significant enough to warrant their elimination.
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: BoberFett
We could do even more by eliminating personal automobiles altogether? Why not do that?Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Isn't the idea that you consume a lot less gas, which produces Co2 when burned in an ICE, enough?
2% is 2% less than what we are using today, that is significant enough to warrant their elimination.
lol, there is some good ole extremism. Instead of recognizing the problem and dealing with it, you just go to the extreme and jump the shark.
suvs are the biggest, most wasteful, and idiotic thing ever devised to lure consumers into buying.
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Originally posted by: BoberFett
We could do even more by eliminating personal automobiles altogether? Why not do that?Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Isn't the idea that you consume a lot less gas, which produces Co2 when burned in an ICE, enough?
2% is 2% less than what we are using today, that is significant enough to warrant their elimination.
That's a major part of the idea of carpooling and public transportation. In Atlanta they put in a carpooling (High Occupancy Vehicle) lane and believe me, it turns a 90min ride into a 20min ride during rush hour. I never go through Atlanta without carpooling anymore, it's just not worth it. If it hadn't been for all the rich white people where I live not wanting "undesirables" in our neighborhood I would have loved the expansion of Marta up to us. Unfortunately they opted for Cobb County Transit which is ok at best, the buses come every half an hour or so which isn't very helpful but it has made a difference. Anyways, if you read on the benifits of public transportation you will see the reduction of personal automobiles at the top of the list. Personally I carpool to/from college every semester but I bike almost everywhere when I get there, including the 4 miles each way to classes at Notrh Campus. It started as a way to reduce my gas money expendatures but I keep going now because I can eat 3 bowls of ice cream a night and not gain an ounce.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
And I say, "Good for you!" And I actually mean that, I'm not being sarcastic.
You have shaped your lifestyle in a way that's helping the environment and lessening our use of foreign oil. People like LegendKiller on the other hand think that they're doing things correctly, and it's everyone else who needs to change, not them. Typical nanny stater. They want to change the world, but they doesn't include themselves. They're already good citizens, it's everyone else that's wrong.
Those kind of people make me sick to my stomach.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
My assumptions? I assumed nothing. Regardless of how well you think you conserve, others do better. The problem with do-gooding nanny staters such as yourself is that YOU make assumptions that you're already in the right, and that it's everyone else who needs to change. Your use of a car, no matter how modest, and use of air conditioning puts you far ahead of 90% of the world in energy consumption. You're in the same league as SUV owners but you're blind to your own failings and have drawn an artificial line, on one side of that line are SUV drivers on the other is you. There could be a number of reasons you drew the line where you did, perhaps to make yourself feel better about your gluttony, or maybe you're truly that ignorant and don't know any better. But do you really think it's a coincidence that you feel that you aren't wasteful, it's only those other people? I imagine the billions of people in 3rd world and emerging economies would probably draw the line such that you and SUV owners are in the same group. But I doubt you'll be able to understand that.
Personally I don't attempt to force other people to live their lives to my liking. Maybe I should. I could start lobbying to eliminate air conditioning for anybody without a documented medical condition that couldn't handle the heat. My wife and I haven't used air conditioning at all this year, we've just left the windows open 24/7. After all, you are more wasteful than me and therefore need to change. That's your attitude toward SUV drivers, and as the saying goes, what's good for the goose...
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So, you live like a 3rd world person then? Of course there will be a difference between modern and not, conveniences or not. However, there is a balance where you consume in an irresponsible manner when you really do not need to. I need to get to work in a timely manner, the bus schedules are not condusive to this, nor are there any reasonable places to live right next to my work. Therefore, I must commute, but I make reasonable efforts to reduce as much as possible.
You do assume that I do not do that. Furthermore, you also assume that I want a nanny state to force people to stop consuming at the rate they are. However, that couldn't be further from the truth. I would like most people to wake up and realize the impact of their decisions. SUV are a convenient target, but there are many more.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So, you live like a 3rd world person then? Of course there will be a difference between modern and not, conveniences or not. However, there is a balance where you consume in an irresponsible manner when you really do not need to. I need to get to work in a timely manner, the bus schedules are not condusive to this, nor are there any reasonable places to live right next to my work. Therefore, I must commute, but I make reasonable efforts to reduce as much as possible.
You do assume that I do not do that. Furthermore, you also assume that I want a nanny state to force people to stop consuming at the rate they are. However, that couldn't be further from the truth. I would like most people to wake up and realize the impact of their decisions. SUV are a convenient target, but there are many more.
Do I live like a 3rd world person? Absolutely not. I pick and choose where to use energy. I'm posting on this forum now, using electricity generated most likely by fossil fuels. All Americans, save for the extremely wealthy, make those choices as well. Just because some choose an SUV doesn't give you the right to demonize them. You talk about balance as though you're the fulcrum. What makes you the person who gets to decide what is wasteful and what isn't?
You state that you need to get to work, and you don't like the housing near your job, so you need to commute. Technically you need to do neither of those things. You could become a subsistence farmer. There are very few needs in modern society, almost everything we produce is wants. You can argue that such a lifestyle is not "balanced" but mostly I'm trying to figure out why you can't get it through your head that you are not the arbiter of balance. The HUMMER driver is wasteful to the minivan driver who is wasteful to the Civic driver who is wasteful to the scooter rider who is wasteful to the bus rider who is wasteful to the bicycle rider. Stop putting yourself on a pedestal.
Originally posted by: BoberFett
You obviously don't get it. You're a self righteous pig of a human being, and feel that you are the standard by which all others should model their lives. Nothing will convince you otherwise. Sorry to have wasted your time.
Not at all, and still further proof that you don't get it.Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: BoberFett
You obviously don't get it. You're a self righteous pig of a human being, and feel that you are the standard by which all others should model their lives. Nothing will convince you otherwise. Sorry to have wasted your time.
Hello mirror...
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Not at all, and still further proof that you don't get it.Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: BoberFett
You obviously don't get it. You're a self righteous pig of a human being, and feel that you are the standard by which all others should model their lives. Nothing will convince you otherwise. Sorry to have wasted your time.
Hello mirror...
I try to save energy. I try not to drive more than I have to, use public transportation when possible, ride my motorcycle when weather permits. I buy products that use minimal packaging, and recycle everything that local recycling will allow. They still don't take polypropylenes for some reason. *shrug* I don't use A/C if at all possible, and in the winter keep my house quite a bit colder than most people would consider normal. All of these things and I don't even really consider myself an environmentalist. I just try to do what I think is right. If other people do the same, I commend them. What I don't do is demonize people who live differently than me. That's where we differ.