Global warming is 'twice as bad as previously thought'

[0roo0roo]

http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm

HA - that's the first thing I thought of posting when I clicked on this thread

Too many unknowns for one to make drastic policy/life changes. Sure there is always the "what if..." but there are many unanswerables if you play the "what if..." game.

CsG

 

[Tom]

when people can't get cold brew then they'll decide it's time to do something.

 

[Infohawk]

I don't think the question is whether humans are changing the climate but by how much. I don't pretend to know enough about the complex models behind it all but I could see some people calling it "natural" even if the temperatures went up 20 degrees in the next 20 years.

 

[ReiAyanami]

if you keep playing the "what if" game, eventually you'll happen upon a very bad if and next thing you know the surface of mars is lookin' pretty nice

 

[Grakatt]

Precisely and just so. We know we are contributing, and some studies show a somwhat ill-boading correlation between the mean globe temperature and the start of our industrial age..either way, we should, according to history, probably be in an ice age now..but even between ice ages, the temperature hasn't shiften as fast as it has since the late 1800's...and not nearly as fast as most models predict it will in the next 100 years.

>True, it all depends on what scaleyou are measuring against, but the shift in temperature that most models predict..is somehat unprecedented, and we don't really know what will happen, except that it won't be very grand.

I just don't think we should throw caution to the wind and burn barrels of oil just for lighting up the dull evening sky simply because we don't know how much damage it is doing.

 

[bauerbrazil]

I wish i could find a national geographic show i saw years ago.

They plot the Earths temperatures since 400000 years ago and it was a periodic graphic with 100000 years period.

Yes, the Earth has a periodic temperature.

But something really worried me, this period is exactly the same as methane and carbon dioxide concentration.

Why this worried me? Because the current carbon dioxide concentration is almost twice higher than the highest concentration ever in the lasts 400000 years on Earth.

Sorry about my english.

EDIT: they got samples of the buried ice in antartica.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bauerbrazil
I wish i could find a national geographic show i saw years ago.

They plot the Earths temperatures since 400000 years ago and it was a periodic graphic with 100000 years period.

Yes, the Earth has a periodic temperature.

But something really worried me, this period is exactly the same as methane and carbon dioxide concentration.

Why this worried me? Because the current carbon dioxide concentration is almost twice higher than the highest concentration ever in the lasts 400000 years on Earth.

Sorry about my english.

EDIT: they got samples of the buried ice in antartica.

Welcome to P&N, you're English is very good.

The study where they pulled the ice core samples was done recently as you saw but as you can see by the P&N experts in everything including Climatology and the fact that Science is a myth because everything is God's will so the study and Ice samples are meaningless and worthless according to them.

 

[ajf3]

Do you have an official Chicken Little ID card?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: bauerbrazil
I wish i could find a national geographic show i saw years ago.

They plot the Earths temperatures since 400000 years ago and it was a periodic graphic with 100000 years period.

Yes, the Earth has a periodic temperature.

But something really worried me, this period is exactly the same as methane and carbon dioxide concentration.

Why this worried me? Because the current carbon dioxide concentration is almost twice higher than the highest concentration ever in the lasts 400000 years on Earth.

Sorry about my english.

EDIT: they got samples of the buried ice in antartica.

Your English was much better than many of our "native" speakers here on P&N. Anyway, I'd like to see a response to this from the global-warming-is-nonsense camp.

 

[0marTheZealot]

This is my take now.

Despite whatever the current trend would have been, we are adding momentum to that trend. If temperatures would have gone up 1 degree C, with fossil fuel emissions adding to the CO2 level, it may be 2 degrees C. So, really, irrespective of what the global trend would have been, we are directly influencing the trend with our CO2 emissions.

Remember, global warming is not some sort of academic problem, or something that only affects nature. Life will find a way no matter what. If it can survive a 90% - 99% global extinction event, a couple degrees C won't really hurt at all. It is we who will suffer. Arable land will go away, major tracts of the world will turn into deserts etc etc. This really will affect human beings more than anyone is. The real question is whether the human race can survive with the aspects of global climate change. The flooding of coastal cities, loss of arable land, soils and natural fauna will be devasting to our ecological habitat.

 

[slash196]

Uhh, everyone does know that global temperature measurements have been deciphered for hundreds of thousands of years in the past, right? Global Warming is not just based on increasing temperatures in the time that we've had thermometers.

 

[sundev]

Originally posted by: slash196
Uhh, everyone does know that global temperature measurements have been deciphered for hundreds of thousands of years in the past, right? Global Warming is not just based on increasing temperatures in the time that we've had thermometers.

Yes, however obviously those measurements wouldn't be as exact as the ones from the past 150 years, when we had thermometers. As I said in an earlier post, temperatures were actually higher than now in the years between 900-1200 A.D. (approx.). Vineyards thrived in England, the snow cap in the Rockies was much higher, etc.

 

[raildogg]

I know some of you have your minds made up about this subject, and I clealy realize its highly controversial. But facts are facts. I truly think Climte Change, or global warming as others refer to as, is real and we must face it, denying it is living in a fictional world.

Speaking of facts, the facts are that in the 20th century the temperates have increased greater than any century in 600 years or so. Some people will dismiss outright, but also the greatest temp. increases have happened in the 1990's, it just shows you that as we pollute the air more and countries around the world become more industrialized (i.e China and India primarily) this problem will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. I'm sure some of you remember the heat wave across Europe 2 years ago, about 15,000 French died. Now I'm not blaming climate chance solely for that but it happened out of nowhere.

One fact is definately clear, sea levels are rising.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I know some of you have your minds made up about this subject, and I clealy realize its highly controversial. But facts are facts. I truly think Climte Change, or global warming as others refer to as, is real and we must face it, denying it is living in a fictional world.

Speaking of facts, the facts are that in the 20th century the temperates have increased greater than any century in 600 years or so. Some people will dismiss outright, but also the greatest temp. increases have happened in the 1990's, it just shows you that as we pollute the air more and countries around the world become more industrialized (i.e China and India primarily) this problem will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. I'm sure some of you remember the heat wave across Europe 2 years ago, about 15,000 French died. Now I'm not blaming climate chance solely for that but it happened out of nowhere.

One fact is definately clear, sea levels are rising.

One fact is definately clear, sea levels are rising.

Not according to the very large majority of the radical Right here in P&N.

All just a myth and hype supposedly to torpedo the U.S. Economy according to them.

 

[Genx87]

Your English was much better than many of our "native" speakers here on P&N. Anyway, I'd like to see a response to this from the global-warming-is-nonsense camp.

If it is the same discovery channel special I saw, the Co2 levels were much higher in the ice core samples.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Your English was much better than many of our "native" speakers here on P&N. Anyway, I'd like to see a response to this from the global-warming-is-nonsense camp.

If it is the same discovery channel special I saw, the Co2 levels were much higher in the ice core samples.

Yes, that was during a period of extreme Volcanic activity.

Humans are the new Volcano now.

 

[Genx87]

I know some of you have your minds made up about this subject, and I clealy realize its highly controversial. But facts are facts. I truly think Climte Change, or global warming as others refer to as, is real and we must face it, denying it is living in a fictional world.

Ok you tell us the fact but present an opinion.

Temperature and climate changes have happened ever since the beginning of the earth. Now the question that needs to be answered is what caused them and are they preventable?

Seeing that we have had ice ages and warming trends over the matter of thousands of years isnt convincing me little old man has much say of anything in the matter.

The only thing that appears to be proved is the ocean level have risen slightly over the past 100 years and trees are growing faster than they used to.

What does it mean? Nobody can say for sure but the climate is changing and like it has for the past 6 billion years. It will continue to change.

btw last summer in MN was the coldest on record. Our avg temperature was off by 9 degrees in August, 6 degrees in July, and nearly 10 degrees in June.

While we usually have 80s we were having 65 and rain.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I know some of you have your minds made up about this subject, and I clealy realize its highly controversial. But facts are facts. I truly think Climte Change, or global warming as others refer to as, is real and we must face it, denying it is living in a fictional world.

Ok you tell us the fact but present an opinion.

Temperature and climate changes have happened ever since the beginning of the earth. Now the question that needs to be answered is what caused them and are they preventable?

Seeing that we have had ice ages and warming trends over the matter of thousands of years isnt convincing me little old man has much say of anything in the matter.

The only thing that appears to be proved is the ocean level have risen slightly over the past 100 years and trees are growing faster than they used to.

What does it mean? Nobody can say for sure but the climate is changing and like it has for the past 6 billion years. It will continue to change.

btw last summer in MN was the coldest on record. Our avg temperature was off by 9 degrees in August, 6 degrees in July, and nearly 10 degrees in June.

While we usually have 80s we were having 65 and rain.

I have to go in a bit so this reply with be short but I'll edit it when I come back.

Theres a reason its called climate change. There will be extremes in temperature, hot and cold all over the world ...

 

[Rainsford]

I think the real problem with the whole global warming debate is that people have trouble seperating the scientific facts from their opinions. It's true that there is a climate change going on, but it's incorrect to think that this is the only period in history where there has been a climate change. The climate is always changing, sometimes hotter, sometimes colder. As someone else pointed out, up until later in the 19th century, the climate was getting colder, now in the past 100 or so years it has been warming up.

Now, the real question is whether we are the cause of this or whether we can do anything about it. It's easy to say our industrialization over the past 100 years has led to increasing temperatures, but other than using some fuzzy logic, nobody I've seen has convinced me our activities are the principle cause of this, or that it's possible to reduce our acitivites enough to limit the rise in temperatures.

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Colt45
eh? I thought you loved bush country and SUVs

raildogg is a perplexing mixture of conservative and liberal values

To be fair that's the majority of the US .

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I know some of you have your minds made up about this subject, and I clealy realize its highly controversial. But facts are facts. I truly think Climte Change, or global warming as others refer to as, is real and we must face it, denying it is living in a fictional world.

Speaking of facts, the facts are that in the 20th century the temperates have increased greater than any century in 600 years or so. Some people will dismiss outright, but also the greatest temp. increases have happened in the 1990's, it just shows you that as we pollute the air more and countries around the world become more industrialized (i.e China and India primarily) this problem will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. I'm sure some of you remember the heat wave across Europe 2 years ago, about 15,000 French died. Now I'm not blaming climate chance solely for that but it happened out of nowhere.

One fact is definately clear, sea levels are rising.

you are claiming the heatwave in france is related to global warming? where are the stats to back that up? its like the tsunami, it looks horrible because its recently, but its happened before, and sometimes worse. and a few decades ago the temperatures looked like they were decreasing, yet we were still polluting more, its why we had predictions of global cooling. does that make sense?

 

[raildogg]

2004 was 4th-warmest year

2005 Could Be Warmest Year Recorded -- NASA

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: sundevb
Mount Everest is growing several centimetres per year (due to plate tectonics). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_everest

Anyways in regards to global warming in general, I don't know if the scientific data that has been gathered over the past 150 years or so is proof enough that global warming (that is, global warming caused by man) exists. 150 years is a ridiculously small amount of time when measured on a geologic timescale.

Rational doubt is certainly applicable to the Climate Change debate. Question is, what are you willing to risk?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Now, the real question is whether we are the cause of this or whether we can do anything about it. It's easy to say our industrialization over the past 100 years has led to increasing temperatures, but other than using some fuzzy logic, nobody I've seen has convinced me our activities are the principle cause of this, or that it's possible to reduce our acitivites enough to limit the rise in temperatures.

Ponder this.

Trees add to the atmosphere called evaporite, the larger the canopy the more droplets and cooling effect.

Take Atlanta for example. They monitored the Heat Island effect as the City spread outward with Urban sprawl. The city which used to be contained to a 15 mile radius inside I-285 would have a 10 degree higher tempature than the surrounding areas.

Then developers and development spread outward to a 65 mile radious and the heat Island effect spread outward as well.

Most of the U.S. has now stripped the land of tree Canopy.

The Amazon has been reduced to a handful of trees. Even in Australia they have stripped a lot of what used to be called the Outback. This has gone on all around the world.

Surface Wind speed has also increased because of the lack of a wind break that trees provided as well. This has resulted in weather patterns racing across from west to east 5 times faster than 100 years ago.

We screwed the planet landscape, period. Then add the the crap we are pumping into the atmosphere. The plant life was there as a sort of natural scrubber and was able to keep up for a while, now there isn't enough left to keep up.

The Earth was a finely tuned natural machine, now it is a broken human machine.