GM boss rallies team for Toyota fight

[SweetSweetLeroyBrown]

GO GM!

 

[Freejack2]

At this point I don't care much about who makes the better newer car. All I know is this. Take 2 cars that cost $16k new and are now the same number of years old with the same miles. The domestic one sells for $7000, the import one sells for $12000. I drive the car for 4 years. During that time I put $3500 in repairs on the domestic, and $2000 into the import. Total spent after 4 years on the domestic: $10,500. Total on the import: $14,000
Far as I'm concerned I don't think I'm ever going to buy a new car again. Spending $23,000 on a new car + repairs I'll drive for maybe 6 years or $21,000 on 2 used cars I'll drive over 8 years. I'll put the $8000 I save to good use.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4


BUAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

**Takes Deep Breath**

BUAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

did toyota give you those kneepads or did you have to buy them yourself?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


hehe anyways, really honestly...what's not to like in a toyota!?...

Their boring sedans.

Sedans are suppose to be boring, people buy them because they want a cheap boring car. At least Toyota sedans don't fall apart at the drop of a hat.

But a new car is a pretty fat waste of money, since they lose like 2 grand in value from being driven off the lot. I'm going to try to snag them after a couple years use from now on...with the 7 year warrenty I'll still have a lot of new car like years out of them, minus the new car price.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: NFS4


BUAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

**Takes Deep Breath**

BUAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

did toyota give you those kneepads or did you have to buy them yourself?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


hehe anyways, really honestly...what's not to like in a toyota!?...

Their boring sedans.

Sedans are suppose to be boring, people buy them because they want a cheap boring car. At least Toyota sedans don't fall apart at the drop of a hat.

But a new car is a pretty fat waste of money, since they lose like 2 grand in value from being driven off the lot. I'm going to try to snag them after a couple years use from now on...with the 7 year warrenty I'll still have a lot of new car like years out of them, minus the new car price.

According to Edmunds.com, my car has theoretically risen in value. Since they do not have 2004's in their system yet I configured it as a 2003 and it is worth $113 more than I paid. Woohoo!

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP

hehe anyways, really honestly...what's not to like in a toyota!?...

the fugly styling.

 

[rahvin]

If GM can do to their other car lines what they have done with Cadi then Toyota better lookout. I though Cadi was a write-off two years ago, now they have some fantastically popular cars (and SUV's) coming off that line and have shifted their appeal to a whole new generation.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: rahvin
If GM can do to their other car lines what they have done with Cadi then Toyota better lookout. I though Cadi was a write-off two years ago, now they have some fantastically popular cars (and SUV's) coming off that line and have shifted their appeal to a whole new generation.

GM has done some very good things with Caddilac.

I honestly think GM just needs to cut out a lot of crap myself.

Something like:

Kill GMC and let Chevy focus on trucks and SUVS
Let Pontiac be the performance line
Let Buick be the upscale line and full size cars
Saturn be the small and misize cars
Caddy can be the luxury

Taking the same frame and badging it under 5 different brands is just a joke. I think they need to trim more than just Olds and simplify their linueup.

But I'm just an armchair analyst.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: OS
GM couldn't build a good car if it's life depended on it, which is the case right now.

Every 5 years or so you hear GM marketing say, oh yeah things are gonna change this time, but it's always still the same crap.

right. i guess this is certainly true with the corvette....

 

[iamwiz82]

2,900 of General Motor Corp.?s top executives from around the world

And this number comes after years of layoffs.

 

[vi edit]

It's also been discussed ad nasueum as well, but part of GM's vice is that it bleeds money because of employee benefits. I think there was a post recently that just health insurance for employees adds something like $3000 onto the price of each vehicle sold.

GM is the largest spender in health insurance in the world IIRC.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: OS
GM couldn't build a good car if it's life depended on it, which is the case right now.

Every 5 years or so you hear GM marketing say, oh yeah things are gonna change this time, but it's always still the same crap.

right. i guess this is certainly true with the corvette....

Okay, so GM makes one decent car. What about the rest?

I think the new Cadillacs are extremely ugly. Why would anyone buy one of those Escalades built on the Avalanche platform? Talk about an eyesore. Here's a $50,000 eyesore! I'm not real fond of the SUV Escalade either. It's a $50,000 Yukon. Blech.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: OS
GM couldn't build a good car if it's life depended on it, which is the case right now.

Every 5 years or so you hear GM marketing say, oh yeah things are gonna change this time, but it's always still the same crap.

right. i guess this is certainly true with the corvette....

Okay, so GM makes one decent car. What about the rest?

I think the new Cadillacs are extremely ugly. Why would anyone buy one of those Escalades built on the Avalanche platform? Talk about an eyesore. Here's a $50,000 eyesore! I'm not real fond of the SUV Escalade either. It's a $50,000 Yukon. Blech.

and the Lexus ES is a rebadged Camry, the LX470 is a rebadged Land Cruiser, and the GX470 is a rebadged 4Runner.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
It's also been discussed ad nasueum as well, but part of GM's vice is that it bleeds money because of employee benefits. I think there was a post recently that just health insurance for employees adds something like $3000 onto the price of each vehicle sold.

GM is the largest spender in health insurance in the world IIRC.

BINGO!!

And right now the unions are going after Toyota. Lets see toyota make anywhere near the money they do now if even 1 plant goes union. It only takes one then all the other ones will get mad when that 1 plant gets more money/benefits.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: vi_edit
It's also been discussed ad nasueum as well, but part of GM's vice is that it bleeds money because of employee benefits. I think there was a post recently that just health insurance for employees adds something like $3000 onto the price of each vehicle sold.

GM is the largest spender in health insurance in the world IIRC.

BINGO!!

And right now the unions are going after Toyota. Lets see toyota make anywhere near the money they do now if even 1 plant goes union. It only takes one then all the other ones will get mad when that 1 plant gets more money/benefits.

And to make up for that they cut costs in areas that affect the quality of the vehicles. This is why I'd never own one.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: OS
GM couldn't build a good car if it's life depended on it, which is the case right now.

Every 5 years or so you hear GM marketing say, oh yeah things are gonna change this time, but it's always still the same crap.

right. i guess this is certainly true with the corvette....

Okay, so GM makes one decent car. What about the rest?

I think the new Cadillacs are extremely ugly. Why would anyone buy one of those Escalades built on the Avalanche platform? Talk about an eyesore. Here's a $50,000 eyesore! I'm not real fond of the SUV Escalade either. It's a $50,000 Yukon. Blech.

and the Lexus ES is a rebadged Camry, the LX470 is a rebadged Land Cruiser, and the GX470 is a rebadged 4Runner.

I'd rather own a Lexus Land Cruiser than a Cadillac Avalanche.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: OS
GM couldn't build a good car if it's life depended on it, which is the case right now.

Every 5 years or so you hear GM marketing say, oh yeah things are gonna change this time, but it's always still the same crap.

right. i guess this is certainly true with the corvette....

Okay, so GM makes one decent car. What about the rest?

I think the new Cadillacs are extremely ugly. Why would anyone buy one of those Escalades built on the Avalanche platform? Talk about an eyesore. Here's a $50,000 eyesore! I'm not real fond of the SUV Escalade either. It's a $50,000 Yukon. Blech.

the avalanche is based on the escalade(/suburban/tahoe/yukon/yukon XL/bigger escalade) platform

 

[ragiepew]

In the latest MotorTrend they state the figures for car sales thusfar in 04 and Chevy (just chevy, not the other GM brands) is up ~14% selling more than Toyota, Ford, and Chrysler/Dodge... far from where they were last year. They stated that it was because GM's ongoing commitment and improvement in quality and consumer perception (or something to that effect).

Anyway, GM's getting better... people just love to rag on No 1 (just like people rag on Microsoft). Sure GM has some problems, name me one company that doesn't, but its steadily improving and still is the biggest auto maker in the world (a feat that some "horrible, crap, lousy, etc." company could not attain let alone hold for 70+ years.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: rahvin
If GM can do to their other car lines what they have done with Cadi then Toyota better lookout. I though Cadi was a write-off two years ago, now they have some fantastically popular cars (and SUV's) coming off that line and have shifted their appeal to a whole new generation.

GM has done some very good things with Caddilac.

I honestly think GM just needs to cut out a lot of crap myself.

Something like:

Kill GMC and let Chevy focus on trucks and SUVS
Let Pontiac be the performance line
Let Buick be the upscale line and full size cars
Saturn be the small and misize cars
Caddy can be the luxury

Taking the same frame and badging it under 5 different brands is just a joke. I think they need to trim more than just Olds and simplify their linueup.

But I'm just an armchair analyst.

I agree except 1 thing, kill Chevrolet trucks and let GMC do ALL trucks.. ALL of them, that way if we need service we sit in a line of 2 maybe 3 people instead of the lines of 20,985 Cavaliers and the like

 

[StageLeft]

That's like an old boxer hitting the gym hard trying to hold off inevitability, all the while an up and coming star is only 22 and is only going to get better. GM will be very lucky if they can hold #1 for much longer against a superior company such as Toyota.

 

[TRDGT]

GM vehicles are for those who don't mind having a car for the length of the payments.
After that too bad. and they can only sell them because they give them away with incentives and the like.
Neighbors 2000 Suburban (a.k.a. the SS housepayment) is only worth 12k at the dealer and it's loaded!!!!
They just bought a new Seqouia.!!!!

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: TRDGT
GM vehicles are for those who don't mind having a car for the length of the payments.
After that too bad. and they can only sell them because they give them away with incentives and the like.
Neighbors 2000 Suburban (a.k.a. the SS housepayment) is only worth 12k at the dealer and it's loaded!!!!
They just bought a new Seqouia.!!!!

thats why you dont EVER sell the truck back to the dealer. they turn that car around and sell it for 3grand on top of it. atleast. the lower the number they can get from you, the more they make.

MIKE

 

[vi edit]

thats why you dont EVER sell the truck back to the dealer. they turn that car around and sell it for 3grand on top of it. atleast. the lower the number they can get from you, the more they make.

Not always true. Trade ins reduce the amount of sales tax you pay.

If I trade in a $20,000 vehicle on a $40,000 vehicle, I don't have to pay sales tax on $20,000, which could end up saving me $1000-$1500 depending on the sales tax in the area. Plus I don't have to pay advertisement fees, deal with people backing out of sales deals, and all the other hastles of selling on my own.

It's not always a black and white thing doing trade ins.

 

[MikeMike]

heh, sales tax by me is 5.25%

MIKE

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That's like an old boxer hitting the gym hard trying to hold off inevitability, all the while an up and coming star is only 22 and is only going to get better. GM will be very lucky if they can hold #1 for much longer against a superior company such as Toyota.

Toyota is hitting on all cylinders right now.


GM is getting there with quality, and seems to be getting better with their designs.

Whether they can turn the corner without hitting rock bottom first, I don't know. It seems that large American corporations need to fail miserably before they truly take stock in themselves and make the drastic changes that are necessary to excel.

 

[vi edit]

I still discern between reliability and quality. In my mind, there is a difference.

Volkswagen is a prime example of a quality car, but not exactly the pinnacle of reliability. Quality is a subjective thing by many. For me, a quality car has good "feeling" materials. It has rounded off trim pieces that aren't sharp. It doesn't have screws and insulation material showing on the dash. A quality built car doesn't have squeeks and rattles at 15,000 miles or 2 years of service. It doesn't have trim pieces that sag and droop after a year or two use. A well constructed car doesn't have a seat made of low grade foam that is unbearable after 4 hours of driving and broke down after a few years of use.

GM is lacking these things. They need to improve ergonomics. They need to improve the seats. They need to dump Delco head units :evil: (Die double DIN die!). They need to make switches and dials that dont pop off the dash or break after a year or two. Lutz himself made the interior guys at GM study VW & Audi to see what they were doing. Imitation is the best form of flattery.

If GM could make a dash that wasn't drooping and creaking after 3 years it would be a miracle. Improve the inside, make it quieter, make it feel better, make it look better, make it last longer and they will be well on their way to improving their image.