GM Crying Over Better MPG Standards

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

HAHA. Shut your ass down and you can't just shut up and admit it. Yeah, you're towing 4 tons with that Corvette alright. Let's see how fast you can get that load up to speed! :laugh:
:roll:

It is amazing how obtuse one person can be, but you lower that bar ever so much on a daily basis.

Looking in the mirror again?

Yeah, that's what I thought, John Boy.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Is there any particular reason why we have not switched over to carbon fiber body yet? I mean, I can understand not getting all the way to all carbon fiber unibody (because of fender benders) but the body panels can surely be replaced by carbon fiber at lower weight for equal strength. Volume should take care of the cost no?

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1662

cost.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

HAHA. Shut your ass down and you can't just shut up and admit it. Yeah, you're towing 4 tons with that Corvette alright. Let's see how fast you can get that load up to speed! :laugh:
:roll:

It is amazing how obtuse one person can be, but you lower that bar ever so much on a daily basis.

Looking in the mirror again?

Yeah, that's what I thought, John Boy.

PWI?

I wasn't arguing against diesel engines, you might want to read the thread again. And there's no reason why a 505 bhp 427 cid big block Chevy V8 couldn't tow a measly 8,000 lbs., you'd just want to install it in a studier chassis than a Corvette before you did so.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Yeah and die 10 years earlier. Greaaaaaat. :laugh:

Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. I suggest you talk to gas parts and fittings salesmen who drive full-size trucks for a living. They are usually hauling at least a thousand pounds worth of stuff in the back and occasionally pulling a trailor that weighs 4,000-6,000 lbs. This is usually on a 5.3L Gas motor manufactured by GM...oh and btw, when they trade them in, they're still running strong at 300k miles.

Like I already stated earlier, I over-estimated the 8000lbs (don't ask me where I got that number). What's the cost of going from a GMC/Chevy 1500 with a 5.3L Vortec to the cheapest Duramax diesel from GM? Too much to be worth the trouble.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Look jackass, if your vaunted gas engines are so wonderful, point out which tractors use them, as in Volvo, Freightliner, etc. Which one? Hellloooo? Speak up smart guy! You want torque and the best fuel mileage, diesel is it. Period. End of story.

What exactly are you trying to argue? Nobody is arguing about what diesels can/can't do.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium


Look jackass, if your vaunted gas engines are so wonderful, point out which tractors use them, as in Volvo, Freightliner, etc. Which one? Hellloooo? Speak up smart guy! You want torque and the best fuel mileage, diesel is it. Period. End of story.

Whoa. Can't come up with some reasonable facts to back up your statement so let's resort to name calling. :disgust:

Like BlancoNino said, no one is arguing that diesels don't have their place and can't exceed gas engines in certain departments. If I ever had the need for a full-size truck I would probably buy a diesel for just the reason's you mentioned, fuel economy and low-end grunt. What you seem to be arguing against is the fact that there is no place in the world for big gasoline engines. I respectfully disagree.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

HAHA. Shut your ass down and you can't just shut up and admit it. Yeah, you're towing 4 tons with that Corvette alright. Let's see how fast you can get that load up to speed! :laugh:
:roll:

It is amazing how obtuse one person can be, but you lower that bar ever so much on a daily basis.

Looking in the mirror again?

Yeah, that's what I thought, John Boy.

Oh you really got me there captain.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sdifox
Is there any particular reason why we have not switched over to carbon fiber body yet? I mean, I can understand not getting all the way to all carbon fiber unibody (because of fender benders) but the body panels can surely be replaced by carbon fiber at lower weight for equal strength. Volume should take care of the cost no?

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1662

cost.

With the way steel price is going, I don't think price should be a problem anymore. problem with carbon fibre has always been low volume. Given enough volume, say 1 million units of front left quarter panel, it should be feasible. Carbon fibre hood is already popular, why not all the outside panels?

 

[CryHavoc]

GM is running scared over a proposed reduction in fuel MPG standards.

since I haven't read this entire thread to see if there was a correction, but its not a reduction in the MPG, but a mandatory increase in MPG.

 

[JPSJPS]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Yeah. That's the extent of it. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

What?

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Study up.

Obviously you have never "Studied up" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH man!

Following are two simple non technical questions that even you can answer and those answers will demonstrate what a moron you are:

1) Consider a situation where you are struggling to pull a heavy load up a hill and you have a manual transmission. Would you use a gear that keeps you at low engine RPMs where you have maximum torque or would you down shift to get higher RPMs, less torque, and more horsepower?

2) Same situation except you have an automatic transmission. When you "punch it" would the transmission stay in the same gear at low engine RPMs and high torque or would it down shift to get higher RPMs, less torque, and more horsepower?

You know the correct answers and they prove that you are FOS!

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Yeah and die 10 years earlier. Greaaaaaat. :laugh:

Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. I suggest you talk to gas parts and fittings salesmen who drive full-size trucks for a living. They are usually hauling at least a thousand pounds worth of stuff in the back and occasionally pulling a trailor that weighs 4,000-6,000 lbs. This is usually on a 5.3L Gas motor manufactured by GM...oh and btw, when they trade them in, they're still running strong at 300k miles.

Like I already stated earlier, I over-estimated the 8000lbs (don't ask me where I got that number). What's the cost of going from a GMC/Chevy 1500 with a 5.3L Vortec to the cheapest Duramax diesel from GM? Too much to be worth the trouble.

See, now that you put the usage mix in that way, it makes sense. If you want the capability to tow heavy trailers, you can get there with gas. If you actually want to do that towing on a regular basis, diesel is probably the better option.

More to the point of the topic, GM's pissing and moaning is getting almost as old as the 'I need an SUV (so I can pretend it's a station wagon 100% of the time)' argument. And I say this as someone who has no particular love for imports.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

HAHA. Shut your ass down and you can't just shut up and admit it. Yeah, you're towing 4 tons with that Corvette alright. Let's see how fast you can get that load up to speed! :laugh:
:roll:

It is amazing how obtuse one person can be, but you lower that bar ever so much on a daily basis.

Looking in the mirror again?

Yeah, that's what I thought, John Boy.

lol, is this 3rd grade recess?

 

[blackllotus]

I would feel bad for these companies if they actually put some effort into improving MPG but they don't.

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
I would feel bad for these companies if they actually put some effort into improving MPG but they don't.

Two mode hybrids, assisted hybrids, plug-in hybrids, E85 and E100, active fuel management/displacement on demand, variable valve timing, electric cars, hydrogen powered cars, direct injection, and six speed automatic transmissions.

Obviously not all of these are availible right now, but several of them are.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

HAHA. Shut your ass down and you can't just shut up and admit it. Yeah, you're towing 4 tons with that Corvette alright. Let's see how fast you can get that load up to speed! :laugh:
:roll:

Read what he put in bold and stop acting like a fvcking moron. Toyota's 4.7 has been and always will be a joke of an engine. Terrible efficiency and gutless to boot.

 

[senseamp]

You can't tow with a Corvette. Unless you are one of the European fellows who likes to tow ridiculous trailers with small cars inadequate for the job.
Not that there is anything wrong with that

 

[Jadow]

It's been statisticly proven that 94% of car guys and gearheads are gay.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: sdifox

With the way steel price is going, I don't think price should be a problem anymore. problem with carbon fibre has always been low volume. Given enough volume, say 1 million units of front left quarter panel, it should be feasible. Carbon fibre hood is already popular, why not all the outside panels?

ever see a carbon fiber car in a crash? bits absolutely everywhere. bitch and a half to clean up and i bet any stray bits could easily slice a tire. because carbon is so brittle i doubt there is a way to keep it from going everywhere in an accident. at least, not in a way that it can also absorb energy by deforming/breaking.

not to mention that a body shop would have to order and mount a whole new panel for even the most minor accident. can't just heat it up and bend it smooth.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: sdifox

With the way steel price is going, I don't think price should be a problem anymore. problem with carbon fibre has always been low volume. Given enough volume, say 1 million units of front left quarter panel, it should be feasible. Carbon fibre hood is already popular, why not all the outside panels?

ever see a carbon fiber car in a crash? bits absolutely everywhere. bitch and a half to clean up and i bet any stray bits could easily slice a tire. because carbon is so brittle i doubt there is a way to keep it from going everywhere in an accident. at least, not in a way that it can also absorb energy by deforming/breaking.

not to mention that a body shop would have to order and mount a whole new panel for even the most minor accident. can't just heat it up and bend it smooth.

They make race cars out of carbon fiber, and build them to protect the driver in horrific wrecks.

The problem is cost, both to build and repair.

 

[OS]

i'd be cool with just higher gasoline taxes all around. Someone's gotta pay for our misguided ME foreign policy.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: sdifox

With the way steel price is going, I don't think price should be a problem anymore. problem with carbon fibre has always been low volume. Given enough volume, say 1 million units of front left quarter panel, it should be feasible. Carbon fibre hood is already popular, why not all the outside panels?

ever see a carbon fiber car in a crash? bits absolutely everywhere. bitch and a half to clean up and i bet any stray bits could easily slice a tire. because carbon is so brittle i doubt there is a way to keep it from going everywhere in an accident. at least, not in a way that it can also absorb energy by deforming/breaking.

not to mention that a body shop would have to order and mount a whole new panel for even the most minor accident. can't just heat it up and bend it smooth.

That is why they don't want it. Replacing a panel is a 30 min job, not a 3 hour job
And any monkey can screw on a panel, assuming the frame is not bent. Carbon can absorb quite a bit of energy, that is why it shatters.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: JPSJPS

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Yeah. That's the extent of it. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

What?

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Study up.

Obviously you have never "Studied up" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH man!

Following are two simple non technical questions that even you can answer and those answers will demonstrate what a moron you are:

1) Consider a situation where you are struggling to pull a heavy load up a hill and you have a manual transmission. Would you use a gear that keeps you at low engine RPMs where you have maximum torque or would you down shift to get higher RPMs, less torque, and more horsepower?

2) Same situation except you have an automatic transmission. When you "punch it" would the transmission stay in the same gear at low engine RPMs and high torque or would it down shift to get higher RPMs, less torque, and more horsepower?

You know the correct answers and they prove that you are FOS!

Not all engines do as you purport.

Imagine looking a car from the side over the windshield. In a C15 Cat engine, the torque curve peaks at 900, holds to 1500 and then drops as it falls to max RPM of 2100. Like looking at the car from the right.

The horsepower is exactly the opposite. Lowest at 900, then peaks at 1500. Looking at the car from the left, IOW.

Max torque ranges from just above idle to halfway through the rpm range. get out of it and you're inefficient.

link to Cat .pdf

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
Many of you folks need to learn a little elementary physics!

Torque related to this discussion is a completely meaningless term!

Horsepower is the only factor that is used to calculate the rate of acceleration, hill climbing speed vs load and % grade etc.

So the posters that talk about comparing equal horsepower vehicles (apples to apples) have it right.

If you would like to see an example calculation of the horsepower required to climb a hill based upon % grade, speed, and vehicle weight let me know.

BS. Torque for towing. Period. Otherwise, tractor trailers would be...GAS POWERED. DUH.

Yeah. 500 hp and 1800 ft lb of torque with 13 speeds FTW!

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87

Also, what about safety improvements? How do they require more power?

I dont have a problem with safety improvements. However the size\weight of the cars have gone up dramactically in the past 30 years from these improvements. With that, the requirement for larger engines to push that extra weight.

Proof please

I don't see a marked increase of the tonnage on the vehicles except for SUV's.

More composites and plastics are being used which lowers weight.

You blinded support of the U.S. giant SUV really shows.

Sorry, Dave, it's a known fact among car buffs that safety improvements, added size, and more options have led to a marked increase in vehicle weight in the past 20 years.
Let's use the Honda Civic as an example: in 1990, it weighed 2322 lbs. off the showroom floor. A similar 2007 model weight 2904 lbs.
Or the Toyota Camry: in 1990, a 4 cyl. model weighed 2811 lbs., a similar 2007 model today weighs 3373 lbs.

Your blind stupidity really shows. Who pays you to be this stupid?

:roll:


BTW, I drive a Subaru.

Do you have any dimensions on these vehicles you've compared? Are they the same size or bigger than back in 1990?

 

[JPSJPS]

EDIT - I hit the wrong button!