GM debates how big is too big; Re: 13.5 liter V16

[SuperTool]

Why do people need to come out of the woodwork and bash one of the best US made cars, the Viper. It's not perfect, but it's something the US can be proud of. It's a car only US could build. Pure unapologetic brute force. I don't see people coming out and bashing lamborghinis or ferraris for reliability or bad visibility or whatever, but people miss no chance to bash American cars. And I drive a Japanese car, but I don't go around bashing American cars.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Millenium
911 Turbo is not the end of all of cars. Sorry. Really nice care but for that much money I would rather have the Viper. Actually I am content right now with what I have. Not scared of a 911 Turbo at all.

Wow, you have auto mustang GT with NOS? how is the tranny holding up?

The transmission is a new Lentech. They don't break.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: lizium
Viper does show some really good numbers no doubt... but then again, give the Porsche team a budget of 8 liters and lets see what they can come up with?

The viper drives like a log compared to the 911... thats why it loses those comparisons everytime. Its fast, but stiff and cant handle well.

You should REALLY stay out of car threads :disgust:

Anyhow, back to the topic, I don't know what GM is smoking... I just hope they bring out the Solistice

edit - sp3lling

 

[OS]

I would much, much, much rather have a Viper GTS than a 911 turbo.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Radeon

Originally posted by: lizium
Viper does show some really good numbers no doubt... but then again, give the Porsche team a budget of 8 liters and lets see what they can come up with?

The viper drives like a log compared to the 911... thats why it loses those comparisons everytime. Its fast, but stiff and cant handle well.

You should REALLY stay out of car threads :disgust:

Anyhow, back to the topic, I don't know what GM is smoking... I just hope they bring out the Solistice

edit - sp3lling

I think the solstice will be great competition for the miata. Looking forward to that car.

 

[idNut]

These engines should be in tanks.

 

[Alphacowboy]

The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: OuterSquare
I would much, much, much rather have a Viper GTS than a 911 turbo.

I wonder what theblondeone has to say about that....

-PAB

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Alphacowboy
The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

Actually, the Viper is 3.9 - 4.0
911 Turbo is 3.8

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Alphacowboy
The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

Actually, the Viper is 3.9 - 4.0
911 Turbo is 3.8

There's alot of variance due to the test drivers. Some don't want to stress the cars, other are nuts like myself who will beat the sh!t out of it until they get a badass time

 

[Alphacowboy]

it totaly depends on the driver... how well they can drive and shift!

 

[lizium]

The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

You just blabbered everything together. McLaren has nothing to do with this, and i dont think Dodge or Ford were even trying to beat the McLaren anyway...

The 911 turbo is a civilized road car. Its all quite simple really. If you have more cash, you can go for the RUF turbo, or GT2 or GT3.

I feel sorry for people who would take the viper or porsche, but you know whats even more sad? Driving your LONG, BIG, NO VISIBILITY, GAS CONSUMTION SUCKER viper in traffic jams Or on long trips, where your ass will start hurting after about 10 miles.

GT2

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: lizium

The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

You just blabbered everything together. McLaren has nothing to do with this, and i dont think Dodge or Ford were even trying to beat the McLaren anyway...

The 911 turbo is a civilized road car. Its all quite simple really. If you have more cash, you can go for the RUF turbo, or GT2 or GT3.

I feel sorry for people who would take the viper or porsche, but you know whats even more sad? Driving your LONG, BIG, NO VISIBILITY, GAS CONSUMTION SUCKER viper in traffic jams Or on long trips, where your ass will start hurting after about 10 miles.

GT2

The GT2 isn't any better about gas milage then a Viper is. They're well known to go below the 10mpg mark. Best around the city is 12 or 13 if you baby it.

Its nice to know that you can say so much about cars you've only read about, never seen or ridden in. I wouldn't make remarks about this had I not had first hand experience with both cars of different model years.

Net Racers are SUCK

 

[Shantanu]

911 Turbo is not the end of all of cars. Sorry. Really nice care but for that much money I would rather have the Viper.

<-- Another one who would take Viper over Porsche 911.

I never liked the stying of Porsche cars. They look like frumpy hatchbacks out of the 1970's. Dodge Viper is the quintessential sports car, in my mind.

It looks like GM's V-12 will get at least 3 deployments:

$200,000 Cadillac super sedan which will debut at NAIAS next year.

Cunningham C7.

High performance variant of new Seville (STSi).

If it's small enough - possibly a high performance variant of the Cadillac XLR to compete with the Mercedes SL600.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: lizium
Thats why american cars will never get to the level of european cars. American car makers all use the same formula: mix as much fuel as you possibly can, with a lot of oxygen, and BAM their is your horsepower. Kinda like the 8 liter viper, which cant even beat a 3.6 liter 911 turbo...

I agree with the other fella - you should definitely stay out of car threads. Anyone who puts so much emphasis on a largely insignificant number like hp/liter obviously has no idea what they are talking about

And BTW, a Viper, a 911 Turbo, and many other cars in the same segment get similar mpg - about 15 or so.

IMO though, even bringing up gas mileage when we're talking about cars of this caliber is a little silly since it largely has no impact on buying habits, driving style, etc. People who buy these types of cars generally don't care.

P.S. ALL car makers get their power by mixing fuel and air, and American cars can and do compete with some European cars very well.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Ummmmmmmmmmm, not performance wise where the NSX got ass rammed.

LOL - I was just going to say something similar. The results of that comparo were based largely on non-performance qualities and opinion.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Alphacowboy
The 03 Viper rocks... seriously, its pure american muscle and is one hell of a car, it is going to make the old viper just that... old! The 911 is also, I am not doubting that... GM has a long way to come in this area... Ford, well the GT-40 is going to be sweet as hell... but I think it will still fall short... but they all have not a chance in hell against the McClaren F1, that car is pure and simply the coolest baddest car! 0-60MPH in 3.2 sec... takes the 911 4.4 sec to do that... and the Viper 4.3 sec (if I remember right)

So I guess the Z06 doesn't count?

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: lizium
Even the NSX smoked the viper

This article has the 1997 911, the 2002 911 Turbo is way hotter.

WTF are you smoking? Did you even read that article?
Here's a few quotes:


about the slow NSX:
Still, theres no denying that the actual test numbers fall behind those of the other cars. Should we be disappointed by a 0-to-60 of 4.8 seconds? Are you troubled by only 106 mph showing at the end of the quarter-mile, with an ET of 13.4 seconds? Skidpad grip is a mere 0.90 g. Could an NSX owner still hold up his head if that news got around?

Viper vs. 911 on the track:
The Viper turned the quickest laps around the handling course at the Chrysler proving ground and was easiest to drive. The Vipers margin over the 911 was more than 2.5 seconds, the racetrack equivalent of a romp.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

An engine is like a penis. If it is big enough to do its job well, someone will still want one waayyyy bigger. Think of a 13.5L engine as 13 and a half inch penis. If you could make one, someone would buy it.

 

[Shantanu]

I agree with the other fella - you should definitely stay out of car threads. Anyone who puts so much emphasis on a largely insignificant number like hp/liter obviously has no idea what they are talking about And BTW, a Viper, a 911 Turbo, and many other cars in the same segment get similar mpg - about 15 or so.

IMO though, even bringing up gas mileage when we're talking about cars of this caliber is a little silly since it largely has no impact on buying habits, driving style, etc. People who buy these types of cars generally don't care.

P.S. ALL car makers get their power by mixing fuel and air, and American cars can and do compete with some European cars very well.

Someone was raving on the other day about how BMW's V8 produces more horsepower/Liter than the GM's V8 used in the Corvette.

People like to ignore price. BMW's V8 probably costs several times as much to produce as the LS1/LS6, a cost that is driven up by both the additional research and development that went into it, as well as the additional costs of producing a more complex engine.

The buyer doesn't give a fvck about HP/Liter. He's interested in Horsepower/Dollar

The Honda S2000 makes more HP/Liter than the Ford Mustang, but the Mustang cranks out more horsepower altogether, and since the price is roughly the same for both cars, it's not surprising the Mustang sells 10 times as many units as the S2000 every month.

Gas mileage is not even worth discussing, in the context of obviously gas guzzling sports cars.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy

EDIT: And if anything, LAUST will probably find a way to shoehorn it under his hood with a whipple charger....

lol...
I think I'm gonna settle for a built 6 liter if I can ever get my 5.3 to blow.. Forged everything from the crank up. I'll be putting in my 30lb injectors soon too, that way I can go back to only 8 injectors and get rid of the extra wiring for this secondary computer I'm limited cause I only have about 6 or so inches between my block and the raditor (is ONLY 6 inches a valid complaint in todays motorsport world )

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: OuterSquare
I would much, much, much rather have a Viper GTS than a 911 turbo.

:Q I don't think ViperGTS is interested, dude -- sorry.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: CocaCola5
The Porsche 959 is amazing that it only weighs like 2,700 Ibs(iirc), no wonder it held the fastest 0-60 times for awhile.

ED; actually it weights 2,976 pounds but it does carry a 4wd system like the regular 911 turbo which is 3,395Ibs

Link

959 = not street legal in the states. But still a saawweeeeet vehicle.

 

[LAUST]

Plus an Auto is safer with NOS

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Shantanu


and since the price is roughly the same for both cars, it's not surprising the Mustang sells 10 times as many units as the S2000 every month.

in america at least...