GM says they will match Japan quality

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4
...rear park sense...

how come it takes a $50,000 car to get that in the US (or a $30,000 SUV) but elsewhere its standard on honda civics?

 

[vi edit]

The one huge advantage the M3 has over the Corvette is that it can seat 4 people, perhaps not comfortably, but it can be done. But that advantage doesn't seem to translate into better sales as the Corvette outsold the M3 2,912 to 426 last month. I guess the M3's bland styling is too high a price to pay for a $45,000 car

How many vette's besides the Z06 had people lining up 6-12 months in advance for them? BMW can't keep up with demands - hence dealer markups.

 

[geno]

Also, the M3 is just as fast as the Corvette...now the Z06 is a different matter.


$10,000 difference my ass You could say that the M3 is almost a steal for what you get.

All I know is that the top of the line Vette can smack the hell out of the top of the line 3 Series. And once again - no matter what the sticker price is, try getting your hands on one for that kind of money. Sticker price means NOTHING when dealers are jacking prices up.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

The one huge advantage the M3 has over the Corvette is that it can seat 4 people, perhaps not comfortably, but it can be done. But that advantage doesn't seem to translate into better sales as the Corvette outsold the M3 2,912 to 426 last month. I guess the M3's bland styling is too high a price to pay for a $45,000 car

How many vette's besides the Z06 had people lining up 6-12 months in advance for them? BMW can't keep up with demands - hence dealer markups.

all dealer markup means is that BMW is underpricing the car. chevy is overpricing the corvette a bit. whats the real prices on those cars, then we'll make the comparison. MSRP doesn't mean jack.

 

[vi edit]

all dealer markup means is that BMW is underpricing the car.

No it doesn't.

It means that there is that much demand out there that people are willing to pay for it. Is a $60,000 M5 marked up to $70,000 underpriced to begin with?

No. It's just that there is a lack of supply but an overabundance of demand.

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

The one huge advantage the M3 has over the Corvette is that it can seat 4 people, perhaps not comfortably, but it can be done. But that advantage doesn't seem to translate into better sales as the Corvette outsold the M3 2,912 to 426 last month. I guess the M3's bland styling is too high a price to pay for a $45,000 car

How many vette's besides the Z06 had people lining up 6-12 months in advance for them? BMW can't keep up with demands - hence dealer markups.

How many other vette's? The only two vettes I'm aware of right now are the C5 and Z06... and I'm pretty sure GM produces more vettes than BMW does M3s.. yet the demand is strong for the z06's. hmmm.

Tony

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

all dealer markup means is that BMW is underpricing the car.

No it doesn't.

It means that there is that much demand out there that people are willing to pay for it. Is a $60,000 M5 marked up to $70,000 underpriced to begin with?

No. It's just that there is a lack of supply but an overabundance of demand.

Yes you are right. Dealer markup has to do with supply and demand. If there are 1,000 M3's made, and 4,000 want them, you are going to be able to charge a premium.

Tony

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Cfour

Originally posted by: vi_edit

all dealer markup means is that BMW is underpricing the car.

No it doesn't.

It means that there is that much demand out there that people are willing to pay for it. Is a $60,000 M5 marked up to $70,000 underpriced to begin with?

No. It's just that there is a lack of supply but an overabundance of demand.

Yes you are right. Dealer markup has to do with supply and demand. If there are 1,000 M3's made, and 4,000 want them, you are going to be able to charge a premium.

Tony

which means that the MSRP is under the market price and so its under-priced.

 

[geno]

MSRP doesn't mean jack.

Yay! I'm not the only one who can see this...

 

[PlatinumGold]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one huge advantage the M3 has over the Corvette is that it can seat 4 people, perhaps not comfortably, but it can be done. But that advantage doesn't seem to translate into better sales as the Corvette outsold the M3 2,912 to 426 last month. I guess the M3's bland styling is too high a price to pay for a $45,000 car
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is EXACTLY why i would never buy an M3. if you want to buy a sports car, then buy a fvcking sports car. don't buy a car that is NEITHER a sports car or a decent sedan (space wise i mean). i could never see spending over 40K on a car that looks like an econobox, no matter how fast it was.

 

[CocaCola5]

The M3 needs a alittle wider track(suspension tweaks can only do so much)..to ultimately challenge the vette on its own term which is pure sports car road-holding tenacity.

 

[NickelTitanium]

Korean cars are the same quality as GM cars. Enough said.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NickelTitanium
Korean cars are the same quality as GM cars. Enough said.

not hardly, but ok.

EDIT: oh wait, GM owns a korean make so maybe thats right.

 

[geno]

This is EXACTLY why i would never buy an M3. if you want to buy a sports car, then buy a fvcking sports car. don't buy a car that is NEITHER a sports car or a decent sedan (space wise i mean). i could never see spending over 40K on a car that looks like an econobox, no matter how fast it was.

Wow, those are some harsh words

While I agree that the M3 isn't anywhere near the "Sports Car" that the Z06/Vette is, it's a good compromise between comfort and performance, you gotta give BMW that at least

 

[ElFenix]

i think the M3 is properly defined as a GT car. but then i could be wrong.

 

[gogeeta13]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

all dealer markup means is that BMW is underpricing the car.

No it doesn't.

It means that there is that much demand out there that people are willing to pay for it. Is a $60,000 M5 marked up to $70,000 underpriced to begin with?

No. It's just that there is a lack of supply but an overabundance of demand.

my uncle works at a BMW dealership, when the M5 first came out, the first 10 people on the list paid over $85,000 each.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but another problem with GM seems to be their relationship with workers.

First a little background before I elaborate:
Near Toronto, there are around FOUR major automotive assembly plants: Toyota, Honda (which I visited a few years ago as a school field trip), GM, and Ford.

Out of those 4, GM has always been in the news for workers being fired, being re-hired again, and workers going on strike. I remember a few years ago the GM workers went on strike and then they got fired...and later GM re-hired a few thousand of them to meet the demand of the Impala sedan. <Chronology may not be accurate>. And now again they are in the news for a near-strike by the workers at the GM plant. At the last hour they reached a deal which cancelled the strike.

Now I do not know if this occurs at all GM plants, but think of the moral of the GM worker who works in this plant. Do you think they care about the product they are making if all they are thinking about is going on strike or if they are pissed off with their employers? Obviously the quality of the car will be compromised!

You need happy workers to make a quality product, and that is what the Japanese companies are known for.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Vette is a nice engine in a crappy wrapper . . . granted the last redesign stole-well from Ferrari and Acura. The CA market is an interesting case study. During the boom, you almost had to steal a Boxster (wannabe-Porsche). Anybody remember the introduction of that hearse from Chrysler (can't remember the name) or S2000 or MDX. Market price is extremely subjective and beholden to a myriad of factors that have little to do with the quality of the vehicle.

Granted edmunds.com slobs BMW phallus . .
If there is room for improvement, it lies with the steering, tires and headlights. The speed-sensitive rack-and-pinion steering is quick, responsive and offers decent road feel, but in a car like this, it should be telepathic. Perhaps the Corvette engineering team could procure a BMW M3 to see how it's done. The Goodyear Eagle F1 tires howl and squeal even when they're nowhere near the limit of adhesion. The last thing a Z06 driver wants to do is advertise excessive speed, and that's just what this set of rubber does. At night, the pop-up headlights offer uneven illumination and odd striations along the leading edge of the light field. Given the mission of this car, mediocre headlamps are inexcusable.

Still, when the time comes to examine value and bang-for-the-buck (and it always does, even when spending $50,000 or more on a play-toy like this), the Corvette Z06 is simply unbeatable when stacked up against the competition. Dodge's Viper is crude, rude and genuinely unpleasant to drive. Acura's NSX suffers from torque envy, advancing age and a high price tag. Porsche's 911 remains attractive only for its available all-wheel-drive system and brand cache. Only BMW's M3 makes a compelling argument for skipping the Z06, given its four-passenger seating capacity and roughly equal price tag.

Having driven a 1999 Vette and a 1998 M3, for my money I prefer the Bimmer. If it was someone else's money I want an M5.

 

[Lucky]

which means that the MSRP is under the market price and so its under-priced.

No, that's not what it means. Only if supply was perpetually limited so much that there was substantial continual markup because of ongoing higher demand would that be the case.

 

[Lucky]

The one huge advantage the M3 has over the Corvette is that it can seat 4 people, perhaps not comfortably, but it can be done

You forgot to mention that the M3 actually looks classy and not like it was made by a three year old out of playdoh.

 

[Shantanu]

You forgot to mention that the M3 actually looks classy

Who are you kidding? The M3 looks like an econobox. No wonder people prefer Corvettes 6:1.

not like it was made by a three year old out of playdoh.

Could've fooled me. LOL.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Shantanu

You forgot to mention that the M3 actually looks classy

Who are you kidding? The M3 looks like an econobox. No wonder people prefer Corvettes 6:1.

not like it was made by a three year old out of playdoh.

Could've fooled me. LOL.

Wow, you talk out of your ass a lot, don't you?

Oh well, the M3 owns j000!

 

[Lucky]

Who are you kidding? The M3 looks like an econobox. No wonder people prefer Corvettes 6:1.

Boy, are you really that retarded? GM outsells Bentley 8500 to 1, that doesnt make it a better car. Just means one is more exclusive than the other.

Could've fooled me. LOL.

I guess so, you seemed to be blinded to quite a bit of reality in this thread!

 

[Shantanu]

GM outsells Bentley 8500 to 1, that doesnt make it a better car. Just means one is more exclusive than the other.

The difference is $15,000 Cavaliers and $300,000 Bentleys don't compete in the same price segment. $50K Corvettes and $50K M3's do you dumb fvcktard. LOL.

 

[holdencommodore]

In Australia, the Australian built Toyota Camry, Avalon and Mitsubishi Magna currently have higher levels of finish then the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore, however, both Ford and Holden are catching up with their new models. Both AU Falcon and VT Commodore have been subject to quite a few recalls, while the Avalon and Magna have had hardly any... maybe that says something about the quality and care taken into the production of these models. The Magna and Camry and Avalon are produced in lower numbers though. The Avalon that is built in Altona in Victoria came straight from design you guys have in the USA.... the Avalon isn't selling too well here... nothin' like a big Aussie Holden or Ford six (or eight)!

I love Holdens anyway....

Cheers