GM signs deal to move electric car development to China

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...hina-electric-car-deal----a-china-shakedown/1
General Motors agreed in Shanghai today to develop an electric vehicle platform with longtime Chinese partner SAIC. It effectively moves GM's future electric vehicle development to China. Unclear is whether this would also lead to assembly of future EVs for the U.S. market in China.

The deal came as the Chinese government is pushing foreign automakers to give Chinese companies EV technology they lack, according to an Associated Press report. U.S. lawmakers have complained that China is "shaking down" GM to get Volt secrets. Electric vehicle development in the U.S. has been developed with extensive U.S. taxpayer funding.

Details of the plan were not provided, and GM has denied it will involve handing over intellectual property underlying the Volt.

GM Vice Chairman Steve Girsky, in a conference call from Shanghai, said that neither SAIC nor the Chinese government have demanded Volt technology. Any future EV would, of course, draw on GM's Volt experience and technology. Under the deal, SAIC and GM will equally share the cost of developing a new all-electric vehicle, Girsky said.

GM plans to start exporting Michigan-made Volts to China by year's end, but isn't likely to sell many. The Chinese government is pushing electrics with a subsidy that amounts to about $19,000 per car -- but only if the car is made in China. No imports allowed. There also are tariffs on cars imported to China, which lawmakers argue are unfair and may violate world trade rules.

Girsky hinted that the Volt could eventually be built in China. "If we localize, eventually it won't have a tariff and it will get the subsidy. We have made no decision on if, when or where we build Volt in the future."

The deal with Chinese government-owned SAIC was signed during a meeting of GM's board in Shanghai — a visit underscoring China's importance to GM. It was the board's first meeting outside the U.S.

GM spokesman Jay Cooney said the companies will work together to develop a next-generation, fully electric car.

GM sees China, the world's biggest new-car market, as crucial to its future:

Shanghai is the site of GM's international headquarters and its successful venture with SAIC, which on Monday rolled out the 5 millionth vehicle since production began in late 1998.

The push for more advanced technology reflects China's frustrations with its continued weakness in automotive technology, analysts say. After 25 years of auto joint ventures that require local partners to hold at least a 50% stake, domestic automakers still lag behind global rivals in automotive engineering.
Here's what our taxpayer-funded government bailout bought us. Good thing they robbed the bond holders and gave the union a majority of the stock.

The good news is that the left and the right agree on something - that the other side is selling us out and willfully destroying the country as it is presently configured. The bad news is that both sides are correct.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I have been saying for years, until our government cuts off all these tax breaks for companies that do this kind of stuff, the american people will continue to be taken advantaged of. Why didn't they go to China and get a loan when they had nothing?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

We shouldn't be buying them anyway. I try as much as I can to buy american made products, even if its a few dollars more.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Yeah, it does sound bad. I'm unclear whether GM intends to build Volts for sale in the US in China, or just ones for sale in China. I can certainly understand the logic of the latter, but if the former is true, that would be very unfortunate. I certainly won't consider buying a Volt if that ends up being the case. I was thinking about it maybe a couple years from now if the price came down.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

What really worries me is the transfer of knowledge and high technology, especially related to manufacturing. This deal, if I understand correctly, basically transfers a ton of intellectual property and knowledge that the Chinese will leverage for their own gains. It is one thing to have them manufacture rubber dog shit gag pieces, a whole other issue for high technology, as they will eventually use our technology to undercut our own industries in the near future.

Same thing happens when Apple or whomever builds a high tech manufacturing facility in China. You can bet those facilities have been gone over with a fine tooth comb by Chinese industrial intelligence.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
lols, of course they are. The Chinese are the ones digging up the materials needed to build the shit, while here in the USA we're bitching about it being to dirty and ruining our environment. Idiots.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
What's good for the goose (company) isn't good for the gander (country) with outsourcing. Each company looking out for its bottom line, all striving toward the lowest common denominator. You outsource, you have an edge. Until your competitor does it, then you're fighting just like before, except now you're outsourced and can't back it out if you wanted to.

Do you remember when stuff used to be made in Hong Kong? I remember it all the time, now it's invariably China, damn well everything I open up and look at was made there.
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

For boneheads- ones, like Fern:

Economy is, when someone produces some product and government prints money that equivalent to worth of product has been made.

If you don't make any products and government printed money goes to goods producer, WHAT KIND OF ECONOMY are you talking about?

Of course, you can't buy nothing, since you haven't produced anything....
End Of The Game? On your side, not Chinese.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...hina-electric-car-deal----a-china-shakedown/1

Here's what our taxpayer-funded government bailout bought us. Good thing they robbed the bond holders and gave the union a majority of the stock.

The good news is that the left and the right agree on something - that the other side is selling us out and willfully destroying the country as it is presently configured. The bad news is that both sides are correct.

I remember 7 or 8 years ago bush blocked funding for these types of companies doing battery work here in america. Some experts warned if we dont get ahead of it we wont have that as a industry. Now look what happened.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

heh, don't forget they have 1.4 billions people. If all those people earns a decent middle income salary, they won't need any other country to buy their product.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Are you serious? It's ridiculously obvious. They are industrializing at the expense of the west. Industrialization is wealth and power. The west will be lucky if we still have some Hollywood brands that aren't totally pirated by the Chinese.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Seriously? We the taxpayers subsidized electric car development and now they're moving R&D to China? As if China has actual engineers vs Confucian automatons? The other piece of news here is that China subsidizes electric cars to the tune of $19k but only if they're made in China. "Free" trade = America gets screwed
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Yeah, it does sound bad. I'm unclear whether GM intends to build Volts for sale in the US in China, or just ones for sale in China. I can certainly understand the logic of the latter, but if the former is true, that would be very unfortunate. I certainly won't consider buying a Volt if that ends up being the case. I was thinking about it maybe a couple years from now if the price came down.
The Volt isn't that popular for it to need 2 different factories running simultaneously.
The Volt certainly isn't selling like hot cakes.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Seriously? We the taxpayers subsidized electric car development and now they're moving R&D to China? As if China has actual engineers vs Confucian automatons? The other piece of news here is that China subsidizes electric cars to the tune of $19k but only if they're made in China. "Free" trade = America gets screwed
The solution is to not subsidize in the first place.
If we subsidize or bail them out, at the end of the day they still go to China anyway so what is the point of subsidization?
China is free to subsidize them if they want, they're not free however to steal from something subsidized with US taxpayer money.

The problem with this regard is US politicians are idiots.
When we bailed out our US Banks(Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Barclays, UBS, and others) we also gave billions of dollars to European banks for absolutely no reason. The Euro zone will only bailout their own banks and won't provide money to US banks that may be affected from the PIIGS crisis like we did for them 3 years ago.
China subsidizes electric vehicle only if they're produced in China. The US subsidizes them regardless of where they are produced?
It seems everyone else is taking us for a ride.
 

janas19

Platinum Member
Nov 10, 2011
2,352
1
0
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

Fern, I wonder the same thing myself sometimes. But the key thing to remember is that their society is arguably not as open and democractic as ours. My feeling is that China may rise to manufacturing and industrial superiority, much like Japan has done (or did) but the end game is that America will always be more innovative and unconstrained, and that's why I believe we'll remain competitive.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

Fern

Are you kidding? What part of gaining more power and control do you not understand?

I don't care if China had 100 people, their policies aren't base on making our economy good.

They have some short term interests in our economy doing better while there's a huge transfer of wealth their direction, but that only lasts so long.

Whatever our economy is losing to them, they're gaining. They have over 1 billion people.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Fern, I wonder the same thing myself sometimes. But the key thing to remember is that their society is arguably not as open and democractic as ours. My feeling is that China may rise to manufacturing and industrial superiority, much like Japan has done (or did) but the end game is that America will always be more innovative and unconstrained, and that's why I believe we'll remain competitive.

Hate to tell you, that'll only be a very small part of our workforce.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,391
31
91
Gotta wonder what China's end-game is besides stealing our economy out from under us.

Eventually, we won't be able to buy their products.

They have over 1 billion consumers.
Once their manufacturing base has been jump-started by the 1% siphoning money from the rest of America, the Chinese can turn around and start paying their workers enough to purchase the goods they are making. So they'll be living large while we'll be playing catch up.
 
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