GM vs Toyota

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Cars & truck that I have had in the past to present:

Nissan truck -- under power & the body didn't hold up as well as subsequence vehicles.

Sabb 99 turbo -- comfortable & fast, but seems to have electrical troubles.

Toyota Corolla -- no frill, cheap, reliable, but carb had to be rebuilt twice because it was sticking, and it had all 4 shocks replaced (end of life was over 350,000 km).

VW Scirocco -- a lemon that keeps having fuel pump problems even after 2 repairs, and it also had horrendous electrical problems.

VW Vanagon GL -- great little van that keeps on ticking however it was greatly under power.

Ford F250 -- power full, and very reliable except for the alternator that didn't last.

Ford Taurus -- Have 290,000 km at the moment, the V6 3 litter engine keeps on ticking with out trouble (repair history: transmission replacement, watter pump replacement, ignition module replacement, steering hose replacement, and shock replacement).

Toyota Corolla -- slightly better than the previous Corolla, and currently have 70,000 Km (the oil that come out of the engine at every 6,000 Km still is very clean with out much discolouration).

<-- Can't vote because I haven't had a GM.

A Gm right there bud!

Uhh...a 1999 Saab is not a GM. lol

 

[dug777]

So wait, this thread degenerated into a bunch of computer nerds whining loudly about how full size GM trucks are better than the Tundra? :roll:

There's something stupid about that, but i can't quite put my finger on it...

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Cars & truck that I have had in the past to present:

Nissan truck -- under power & the body didn't hold up as well as subsequence vehicles.

Sabb 99 turbo -- comfortable & fast, but seems to have electrical troubles.

Toyota Corolla -- no frill, cheap, reliable, but carb had to be rebuilt twice because it was sticking, and it had all 4 shocks replaced (end of life was over 350,000 km).

VW Scirocco -- a lemon that keeps having fuel pump problems even after 2 repairs, and it also had horrendous electrical problems.

VW Vanagon GL -- great little van that keeps on ticking however it was greatly under power.

Ford F250 -- power full, and very reliable except for the alternator that didn't last.

Ford Taurus -- Have 290,000 km at the moment, the V6 3 litter engine keeps on ticking with out trouble (repair history: transmission replacement, watter pump replacement, ignition module replacement, steering hose replacement, and shock replacement).

Toyota Corolla -- slightly better than the previous Corolla, and currently have 70,000 Km (the oil that come out of the engine at every 6,000 Km still is very clean with out much discolouration).

<-- Can't vote because I haven't had a GM.

A Gm right there bud!

Uhh...a 1999 Saab is not a GM. lol

GM owns Saab and uses a
Saab platform for the Malibu and G6. Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda since
early 90's and bases the Fusion on the Mazda6 platform

 

[deerslayer]

No one who actually uses a pickup truck for what it was built for would buy a Tundra.

 

[ScottFern]

I bought a new Camry, but I am still bitter at Toyota because their lowest APR was 6.55 for my Camry and I have near perfect credit! Jerks!

 

[BUTCH1]

My mom just bought an 07 Corolla, wound up paying 16K after taxes for it, the salesman
just flat out told her "we rarely do incentives". Nice little car but kinda pricey for a compact.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: phoenix79

Originally posted by: Strk
And yeah, GM killed the EV1, so what? It was a piece of garbage. GM is rapidly putting out hybrids though. Their hybrid system is a little different though. Right now they have the Saturn Vue. The Saturn Aura will have a hybrid out shortly. There also might be a hybrid Astra. GM has also stated it intends to put a production version of the Volt on the road.

Using the saturn vue to defend GM isn't very smart. It's drivetrain is built by Honda, as are most of the new Saturns, hence the higher quality than ever. Sorry.

I believe the post was referring to the Vue hybrid, which doesn't use a Honda drivetrain.

Aside from the V6 in the (current) Vue, what other Saturn powertrains are built by Honda?

None.

 

[hanoverphist]

my mom is a toyota fan. when she bought a new camry and didnt trade in her 84 celica GTS, my bro got it while he was in college. after he finished with it, i got it. it was a fun car, had about 170k on it. blew a head gasket and got donated. my 79 chevy stepside didnt disappear until it had 195k on it, 2 frame cracks and a steering box severed from the frame. it was a 4X4, about 90k of its miles were offroad. that darn truck ran forever, looked way more cool than any toyota truck ever will. my dad buys those TRD toyota trucks too, he loves em. it just feels like its too thin, too small and doesnt fit me well. my dodge fits just fine, i dont reall like the new style chevy took on. we do use the 3/4 ton and 1ton trucks with service bodies here at work, they last forever and haul a ton. even with the service bodies loaded with about 3k of stuff they still will pull a trailer with 2 ton of gear stacked on it. id say that was pretty good overall, and they definitely out work those fords we used to buy.

overall, id still go GM over toyota, but thats due to personal pref, not anything else.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: secretanchitman
toyota > gm. we have a 1992 toyota previa...still running like a charm, though all of the speakers except the back left sub works.

I have a 1994 Chevrolet Corvette... still running like a charm. All the speakers work.

i have a 80 cadillac sedan de ville. all the speakers still work as well. thing still runs great, has the cadillac 368 motor in it. that thing just peeped over 100k miles and doesnt rattle at all.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Of course on here Toyota will win...to put it simply there are a lot of people who have asian blood in them on here and they will vote for Toyota automatically.

Same as me, I'll vote for GM automatically.

And, quite frankly, it used to be true that Toyota or asian imports were of better quality than american cars...but not anymore. but that myth will not die out until this generation does. All cars these days will last past 100,000 miles if you keep up with maintaince...believe it or not fanboys but a Cobalt engine will run just as long. (Also the cobalt is a lot more fun to drive).

BTW The Tundra is getting spanked in all pick up truck comparisons by the new Silverado...comments like "struggles up hills with medium load" make me wonder how some people say they would buy a Tundra...believe that shitload of marketing about Toyota's hitch? A Fanboy? You better believe it. And, do not give me looks as a reason...the Tundra looks like a mix between an old 80's pickup and a new one.

I'll take a Ford Superduty diesel over any of them for that matter, if I wanted a real truck, and didn't want to ride around in some pseudotoyotapickup truck just to boost his ego.

Cliffs:
Asian fanboys suck
I am an american fanboy
No one who actually uses a pickup truck for what it was built for would buy a Tundra.

I thought the new 2007 Tundra had class leading power/hauling capability according to what I've read.

BTW-I drove my friend's 2006 Tundra Double Cab last weekend and it is one hell of a nice truck. Much better than the 2005 GMC Sierra he had prior (which I've also driven).

If I were to buy an American truck it would be a Ford though. I can't stand GM and think most of their vehicles are just plain ugly and cheap feeling. I also can't stand the current F-150.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Of course on here Toyota will win...to put it simply there are a lot of people who have asian blood in them on here and they will vote for Toyota automatically.

Same as me, I'll vote for GM automatically.

And, quite frankly, it used to be true that Toyota or asian imports were of better quality than american cars...but not anymore. but that myth will not die out until this generation does. All cars these days will last past 100,000 miles if you keep up with maintaince...believe it or not fanboys but a Cobalt engine will run just as long. (Also the cobalt is a lot more fun to drive).

BTW The Tundra is getting spanked in all pick up truck comparisons by the new Silverado...comments like "struggles up hills with medium load" make me wonder how some people say they would buy a Tundra...believe that shitload of marketing about Toyota's hitch? A Fanboy? You better believe it. And, do not give me looks as a reason...the Tundra looks like a mix between an old 80's pickup and a new one.

I'll take a Ford Superduty diesel over any of them for that matter, if I wanted a real truck, and didn't want to ride around in some pseudotoyotapickup truck just to boost his ego.

Cliffs:
Asian fanboys suck
I am an american fanboy
No one who actually uses a pickup truck for what it was built for would buy a Tundra.

I thought the new 2007 Tundra had class leading power/hauling capability according to what I've read.

BTW-I drove my friend's 2006 Tundra Double Cab last weekend and it is one hell of a nice truck. Much better than the 2005 GMC Sierra he had prior (which I've also driven).

Sierra Denali has more HP and Torque and the F-150 out hauls it. So the new Tundra isn't really class leading, maybe for a month or two.

 

[imported_Goo]

Don't care about Toyota, none of their lineup do me anything. Here is the reasons.
-Toyota made some of the most boring car ever, whenever I drive a camry I feel I am steering a boat.
-None of the Toyota my friends and relative have are problem free like other people claim, they blow engine tranny left, right and center pass 200k km.
-Test drove a Matrix 6sp a couple yrs back and it is the worth tranny I ever put my hand on
-Corolla drivers are the worst driver on the road, I don't want to be part of the group.

 

[Unheard]

I'm a Dodge man myself, but if having to choose between a GM and a Toyota (of which my family has had 3, a 86 Pickup, 93 Pickup, and a 97 Camry, the only one not having major issues was the 86), I would pick a GM in a heartbeat.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Facts:

GM is losing billions a year while Toyota is having record sale and profits.

Toyota will become the largest auto maker in the world, not IF, but WHEN. Go to Fortune.com and do a search.

Toyota is entering the truck market with a brand new plant in San Antonio, TX and brand new redesigned Tundra truck. We will see how those trucks are doing soon.

Toyota will open ANOTHER brand new plant in Miss within a year or two When were the last time you hear GM open a new plant?

GM was losing billions of dollars a year. They're actually profitable once again.

Yes, Toyota just opened a plant and has plans on opening another one shortly. But how about we put a few things into perspective. Toyota has around 13 plants, GM has nearly 80 after the recent closings. Toyota has around 30,000 employees in the United States, GM has around 300,000. GM also has hundreds of thousands on pensions. Nearly $2,000 is added to each GM vehicle due to health care costs, Toyota has around $200.

GM was led poorly for a long time and it's not exactly easy to clean up, but they're doing quite well with it.

 

[oslama]

One thing i have noticed is that the Japanese and Europeans let the car sell itself. Their commercial and ads focus on the the car rather than people. I rarely see a person in toyota and hondas commercials.

 

[yhelothar]

I'm asian and I voted GM.
While Toyota does have an upper hand when it comes to practical cars, but their cars are ****** boring. Even Toyota's flagship sports coupe, the SC430 is junk.
With the GM, you have the Cobalt SS, Corvette Z06, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: oslama
One thing i have noticed is that the Japanese and Europeans let the car sell itself. Their commercial and ads focus on the the car rather than people. I rarely see a person in toyota and hondas commercials.

The only two I can really think of that really just have, for the most part, just the cars, would be BMW and Honda.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Strk
GM was losing billions of dollars a year. They're actually profitable once again.

Yes, Toyota just opened a plant and has plans on opening another one shortly. But how about we put a few things into perspective. Toyota has around 13 plants, GM has nearly 80 after the recent closings. Toyota has around 30,000 employees in the United States, GM has around 300,000. GM also has hundreds of thousands on pensions. Nearly $2,000 is added to each GM vehicle due to health care costs, Toyota has around $200.

GM was led poorly for a long time and it's not exactly easy to clean up, but they're doing quite well with it.

Profitable you said? Let take a CLOSER look at the numbers shall we?

"The world's No. 1 automaker posted net income of $950 million, or $1.68, but that was helped by the sale of 51 percent of its GMAC finance arm during the period". Source: http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/14/news/companies/gm/index.htm

When will the AUTOMOTIVE division make some money by ITSELF Remember how well their sales were after 9/11 with 0% interest and other gimmicks? Now GM bosses are saying it was a big mistake. I do agree about the handicap of heavy legacy/pension/healthcare costs but that will be another discussion.

GM was big and powerful back then. IIRC, GM was making about 1 out of 2 every vehicle in the US in the 50s and 60s <50% marketshare>. Now, their marketshare is not even half of that. That's one butt whipping no matter how you slice it.

We will see if they will turn around. Time will tell. I like for them to make it. Competition is good for consumers. Wall Street may not be waiting too long or give them that much time to turn around <bankruptcy, merger, and/or took over are possibilities>.

Don't take my words for it. Here are a few links that say GM and the domestics are still in deep trouble:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/...e_archive/2006/02/20/8369111/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/13/autos/autos07.fortune/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/30/news/companies/pluggedin.fortune/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/03/news/companies/pluggedin_fortune/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/...e_archive/2006/03/06/8370664/index.htm

 

[AndrewR]

But, but, but...The UAW is good for America!

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
But, but, but...The UAW is good for America!

It is. Bad management, however, isn't good for anyone.

 

[j00fek]

honda > toyota > gm

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AndrewR
But, but, but...The UAW is good for America!

It is. Bad management, however, isn't good for anyone.

So, the crushing health care and pensions that the UAW forced of the management is good for everyone? The article states that GM has $1000 in health care costs alone in the price tag of each car while Toyota only has $200. Sure, no harm there!

The UAW is on the cusp of destroying all three American car companies. A large corporation can survive bad management (I used to work for one), but it can never survive bad management combined with a vampiric drain from its workforce. Just admit it and accept it already.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AndrewR
But, but, but...The UAW is good for America!

It is. Bad management, however, isn't good for anyone.

So, the crushing health care and pensions that the UAW forced of the management is good for everyone? The article states that GM has $1000 in health care costs alone in the price tag of each car while Toyota only has $200. Sure, no harm there!

The UAW is on the cusp of destroying all three American car companies. A large corporation can survive bad management (I used to work for one), but it can never survive bad management combined with a vampiric drain from its workforce. Just admit it and accept it already.

Nobody forced health care on anybody. Both sides sat down and negotiated a contract. Health care was something given many years ago in lieu of wages because a large corporation could get it at a lower price than an individual. Now health care costs have skyrocketed beyond anyone's imagination and for a number of reasons. The entire country would benefit if these costs were brought under control.

It would be beneficial to see individuals carry some of the burden of their health care costs if for no other reason than to make people aware of how their lifestyle choices can affect their wealth.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AndrewR
But, but, but...The UAW is good for America!

It is. Bad management, however, isn't good for anyone.

So, the crushing health care and pensions that the UAW forced of the management is good for everyone? The article states that GM has $1000 in health care costs alone in the price tag of each car while Toyota only has $200. Sure, no harm there!

The UAW is on the cusp of destroying all three American car companies. A large corporation can survive bad management (I used to work for one), but it can never survive bad management combined with a vampiric drain from its workforce. Just admit it and accept it already.

Nobody forced health care on anybody. Both sides sat down and negotiated a contract. Health care was something given many years ago in lieu of wages because a large corporation could get it at a lower price than an individual. Now health care costs have skyrocketed beyond anyone's imagination and for a number of reasons. The entire country would benefit if these costs were brought under control.

It would be beneficial to see individuals carry some of the burden of their health care costs if for no other reason than to make people aware of how their lifestyle choices can affect their wealth.

What he said. GM's costs are higher because they have more retirees. As the Toyota workforce ages Toyota wil be in the same boat. The obvious solution is national health insurance to level the playing field.

On the issue of unions, if managment made deals with the unions that were bad for the shareholders then the shareholders aught to have bounced the management out or sued their butts off for failing in their fuduciary responsibilities. Since neither happened it appears the labor deals were in the best interests of the companies.

 

[oslama]

i think hondas are overated in terms of price and quality/reliablity.

The Koreans are improving and are gunning to lead US companies.

The Hyndai Sonata borrows heavily from previous gen Camry (the front end design and ergonomics) and Accord ( trunk end design and seating).

There are a few brights spots in GM's "homegenized" product line up.

Saturn Aura has the potential to be a worthy "3rd" option to camry and accord. but GM is pushing the new malibu as an alternative to these japanese sedans.
Pontiac G6 looks good and is way better than the grand am it replaces.
Saturn Solstice is gorgeous and can be a mainstream roadster out classing what toyota, honda and mazda have to offer.

Toyota and GM do have one thing in common. They have a screwed up SUV product line. GM has the same "SUV" platform across all its brands. The new saturn and pontiac suvs are basically similar and compete in the same market segment.
Toyota has too many overlapping SUVs that also compete in the same market segment. Where do the 4runner and the FJ cruiser fit into their suv line up of:

RAV4>Highlander>Sequioa>Landcruiser