Originally posted by: Cfour
There wouldn't need to be a GXP package for the GTO, its gonna be putting down 350 horses as-is and should chime in at a 13.7 or so quarter mile.
Originally posted by: redly1
GM axed the F-body due to a dispute with the Union...fvcking unions
I dunno about the labor dispute thing that ended the F-bods, but I second the 'fvucking unions' statement!
Well straight from GM and Honda's sites.. we have the follwing... (highest end of each model)
2003 Grand Am GT1 - $22,995
2003 Hona Accord EX V6 - $25,900
Geez, is that a difference of three grand?
And if you think that price would change next model change, thats nuts because GM has to keep the difference between the GA/GP big enough as to not associate them in the same "category".
Tony
Honda and Toyota TOTALLY redesign their cars every 4 years with a refresh after 2 years
Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
Honda and Toyota TOTALLY redesign their cars every 4 years with a refresh after 2 years
And they still suck.
I hate those cars. I have yet to see one I like or that I would pay the silly amount of money for. I have a Grand Am GT and I love it. It is the nicest, and quickest car I have driven in a very long time. I once bought a nissan and will never buy Japanese again ever. I buy American.. American Muscle and American Know How.. all the way baby.
Why put SS on anything less then a V8?Originally posted by: Swanny
Why put the Super Sport designation on pickups and SUVs? It just ruins the point.
EDIT: New Cavaliers look awesome
Originally posted by: crYnOid
Originally posted by: Cfour
There wouldn't need to be a GXP package for the GTO, its gonna be putting down 350 horses as-is and should chime in at a 13.7 or so quarter mile.
Originally posted by: redly1
GM axed the F-body due to a dispute with the Union...fvcking unions
I dunno about the labor dispute thing that ended the F-bods, but I second the 'fvucking unions' statement!
Here is a hot tip for all you americans from an aussie. The GTO WILL have over 400hp. I'm not really sure how much over it could be, but it is I believe one of these, 409hp, 422hp or 436hp. I guess you will find out the exact figure in a little less than 2 months.
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Well straight from GM and Honda's sites.. we have the follwing... (highest end of each model)
2003 Grand Am GT1 - $22,995
2003 Hona Accord EX V6 - $25,900
Geez, is that a difference of three grand?
And if you think that price would change next model change, thats nuts because GM has to keep the difference between the GA/GP big enough as to not associate them in the same "category".
Tony
No offense, but compare apples to apples. Use the Grand Prix since the accord is bigger than the Grand Am. The top end Grand Prix goes for $26,900.
agreed, the same odds of finding a Dodge with a Tranny worth a Sh!tOriginally posted by: NFS4
EDIT: New Cavaliers look awesome
You mean this:
http://www.chevrolet.com/cavalier/images/gallery/gallery_major10.jpg
http://www.chevrolet.com/cavalier/images/gallery/gallery_major04.jpg
http://www.chevrolet.com/cavalier/images/gallery/gallery_major06.jpg
http://www.chevrolet.com/cavalier/images/gallery/gallery_major09.jpg
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, looks like a damn catfish It's almost as ugly as it's Sunfire cousin:
http://carpoint.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c441748A.jpg
http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/sunfire/ecotec/images/photo06_lg.jpg
http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/sunfire/ecotec/images/photo01_lg.jpg
Finding a good GM car design is like trying to find a sober, blonde, virgin at a frat party.
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
Honda and Toyota TOTALLY redesign their cars every 4 years with a refresh after 2 years
And they still suck.
I hate those cars. I have yet to see one I like or that I would pay the silly amount of money for. I have a Grand Am GT and I love it. It is the nicest, and quickest car I have driven in a very long time. I once bought a nissan and will never buy Japanese again ever. I buy American.. American Muscle and American Know How.. all the way baby.
saying Grand Am and American muscle is somewhat funny to me. Anyways, i probably wont buy an american car again, unless i need a beater and then I can get from DCX's Proving Grounds for $3000-$4000 under blackbook. American cars have fallen apart in the quality department. SUV/truck-wise, though, i'll but american. Jeep owns me
Sorry, the GTO won't have more HP than the Vette...
Why compare apples to apples when you have have a car that wil outperform the accord for 3k less?
Other than the Corvette namesake, is there really any reason why somebody would pay the extra $5k-$10k for a vette over the GTO? If what I've read is correct, the GTO will own the 'Vette in pretty much everyway (not counting the Z06). I think about the only thing the base 'Vette would have would be a weight advantage.
As for this
Show me a Grand Am that can do a 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, which is what the accord does it in. Or, better yet, show me a Grand Am that can do it in 5.5 seconds which is what a $24,000 WRX can do it in.
Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
I have a Grand Am GT and I love it. It is the nicest, and quickest car I have driven in a very long time.
Well, since the C5 will be gone in the next year or two if I'm correct, I'm sure there will be plenty of reasons to buy a vettee over GTO. Why not count the Z06? Anythign that can do a quarter in 12.2 for somewhere in the range of 50k shouldn't be looked over. Did I mention handling?
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Well, since the C5 will be gone in the next year or two if I'm correct, I'm sure there will be plenty of reasons to buy a vettee over GTO. Why not count the Z06? Anythign that can do a quarter in 12.2 for somewhere in the range of 50k shouldn't be looked over. Did I mention handling?
Gee I dunno, maybe the $15k+ difference between the Z06 and the GTO. I guess if you want a convertable you have to go Vette. Coupe wise though, it seems like the GTO is the bargain for the buck.
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
saying Grand Am and American muscle is somewhat funny to me. Anyways, i probably wont buy an american car again, unless i need a beater and then I can get from DCX's Proving Grounds for $3000-$4000 under blackbook. American cars have fallen apart in the quality department. SUV/truck-wise, though, i'll but american. Jeep owns me
Originally posted by: Swanny
Why put the Super Sport designation on pickups and SUVs? It just ruins the point.
EDIT: New Cavaliers look awesome
Revamped completely, eh? Are the chassis new? As long as the chassis is retained, you can't call the car "new". It's not a complete re-design uness it's from a blank slate. I'll make allowances for using existing engine/transmission families, but the vehicle is not "completely revamped" unless it's a whole new chassis.Originally posted by: redly1
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: redly1
I can't believe that he called those cars "new". All they did was slap some different sheet metal on them. It's completely obvious that they are based on the designs that came out in '95. To anyone who thinks that those are new designs, I've got a 486 in a brand new cool-looking case to sell you.
ZV
Uh, what else constitutes a new model? besides sheetmetal and better drivertrains and updated (while maybe unsatisfactory to some) interiors??
Something that came out originally in '95 can hardly be called new for '03. Hell, it's still using the same interior from '95.
Honda and Toyota TOTALLY redesign their cars every 4 years with a refresh after 2 years.
Uh, sorry. Don't think you've been in a GM vehicle in a while NFS4. Do a little research on the Tahoe, for example, and see how many changes...let alone interior changes, Edmunds mentions in the overview between 95 and 02. Besides the Cavalier (which ironically seems to be of most interest here) almost every model in GM has been revamped completely since 95
Originally posted by: bolido2000
I wonder what Toyota's plans are in the performance dept. All major car makers are coming out with performance oriented models. No wonder Toyota is considered the Jap Buick by some people. Does any one have any information in the suppously upcoming 05-06 Supra?
Revamped completely, eh? Are the chassis new? As long as the chassis is retained, you can't call the car "new". It's not a complete re-design uness it's from a blank slate. I'll make allowances for using existing engine/transmission families, but the vehicle is not "completely revamped" unless it's a whole new chassis.
American cars have made great strides, but domestic companies still milk designs for way too long. It's not like they are low-volume and can't afford more rapid re-designs.
ZV
EDIT: For the record, I do like domestics, but I'm a Blue Oval man myself. Two generations of my family (along with my current girlfriend's family) have worked for GM, and I still won't touch the cars. The family that buys them has nothing but trouble with them also. My aunt's Grand Prix GT has had two new engines in its life. First engine blew out the rear main while driving and lost the oil, trashed itself. The second engine threw a rod. She's going to let the car's next (second) owner find out how the third engine's going to fail. Also, it's not like my aunt abuses her cars. She's on a religious 3,000 mile oil change interval, and both times the engine failed the mechanics looked at everything and called it "spontaneous failure", said it had nothing at all to do with operator error.
I don't know about you, but I don't find any engine that spontaneously throws rods to be "improved".
My father was a manager for an industrial/semi parts supply company. He said that the few Chevy delivery vehicles they had were always breaking down and the Fords just kept going.
I know it's all anecdotal evidence, but I've never been let down by a Ford or by a modern import. (My 26 year old project car doesn't count.) But that's just me, my family may have just had a run of bad luck. I'm willing to admit that can happen.
Originally posted by: Cfour
Revamped completely, eh? Are the chassis new? As long as the chassis is retained, you can't call the car "new". It's not a complete re-design uness it's from a blank slate. I'll make allowances for using existing engine/transmission families, but the vehicle is not "completely revamped" unless it's a whole new chassis.
American cars have made great strides, but domestic companies still milk designs for way too long. It's not like they are low-volume and can't afford more rapid re-designs.
ZV
EDIT: For the record, I do like domestics, but I'm a Blue Oval man myself. Two generations of my family (along with my current girlfriend's family) have worked for GM, and I still won't touch the cars. The family that buys them has nothing but trouble with them also. My aunt's Grand Prix GT has had two new engines in its life. First engine blew out the rear main while driving and lost the oil, trashed itself. The second engine threw a rod. She's going to let the car's next (second) owner find out how the third engine's going to fail. Also, it's not like my aunt abuses her cars. She's on a religious 3,000 mile oil change interval, and both times the engine failed the mechanics looked at everything and called it "spontaneous failure", said it had nothing at all to do with operator error.
I don't know about you, but I don't find any engine that spontaneously throws rods to be "improved".
My father was a manager for an industrial/semi parts supply company. He said that the few Chevy delivery vehicles they had were always breaking down and the Fords just kept going.
I know it's all anecdotal evidence, but I've never been let down by a Ford or by a modern import. (My 26 year old project car doesn't count.) But that's just me, my family may have just had a run of bad luck. I'm willing to admit that can happen.
No, a revamp doesn't have to be a body style change... pretty much any improvement (cosmetic/performance) could be considered a revamp. And milking the styles? The Grand Am years were as follows: 92-95, 96-98, 99-04, 05-?. To me, 4 years seems pretty standard with anyone. Hell, the integra went '94-'01 and nobody is complaining. Are you sure your Aunt wasn't beating the piss out of that? Even then it shouldn't break, so it must have been real bad luck because the 3800 has made the 10 best engine list several times... And Fords kept going? Wasn't it ford that just halted production on all '03 Cobra SVTs and had a big recall on Explorers and now Focuses?
Tony