Gm's old Delphi parts division wants a 68% pay cut for its UAW employees..

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Unions will never go for it, Delphi will be bankrupt.


Japanese car driving douchebags are the NUMBER ONE REASON that Ford and GM are struggling.

That and high healthcare. The ridiculous wages and benefits the unions demand tie in with the healthcare issue tho.

Fixed

Nonsense. People buy Japanese cars because they are a BETTER VALUE than American cars. The "American Way", contrary to the opinions of idiots, is *not* a mentality of "throw your money away just because it was built on this continent!". The American Way is to find the BEST quality and features for the BEST price.

Unions have made it IMPOSSIBLE for American car companies to compete effectively in that market.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: BD2003
Oh thats right, because youre not a real american if you dont buy american cars eh?

Exactly.
Perfect.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

And...
Everyone who owns a jap car should have it pushed into the ocean while they are in it.

Actually what should happen is that we should line up all the CORRUPT UNION LEADERS right next to Jimmy Hoffa's dead ass, FIRE their overpriced, underskilled workers and restart American Automotive Operations WITHOUT Unions.

If you want to make $50,000 or more, get some real skills and become an ASSET to your employer. Get yourself degrees, certifications, SKILLS, and stop taking the candy-ass man's way out by joining a Union.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: mugs
$27 an hour is absurdly high

Drive down to mexico if you want to see what a low wage economy is like..heck you can open a business cheap too down there..LMK how it goes.

Man, you could pay Mexico's employee's $100 an hour and that place would *still* be a sh1thole. The whole Mexican government is corrupt, very little Private Property exists, little or no documentation about WHO owns WHAT exists unless you're *very* rich, and the government nationalizes (read: STEALS) any private property it wants, any time it wants, and there is no legal protection against it. The streets of Mexico City are patrolled by military police with AUTOMATIC WEAPONS to keep people in line. Education isn't emphasized or encouraged, illiteracy is rampant and people have to live multiple families to a single home just to survive.

Low wages are the LEAST of Mexico's problems.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: jadinolf

Originally posted by: BD2003
Oh thats right, because youre not a real american if you dont buy american cars eh?

<--------------Unreal American. Drives Toyota.

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

Supposedly we'll be getting CARS here from China next year. Allegedly they'll get 40+ MPG and cost $5,000 at *retail* with a 100,000 mile warranty. Suffice to say, I WILL be buying one.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: middlehead
I'd rather see them fire all the union people and start fresh

QFT

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

See that's the thing - the Chinese make cheap crap. So that's the equivalent of buying an American car, not a Japanese car.

That's often true. But if I can get a car for $5,000 that will last me 100,000 miles I'm *still* ahead of the American car which will cost me $20,000 and if I'm *lucky* it will last 100,000 miles.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Unions will never go for it, Delphi will be bankrupt.


Japanese car driving douchebags are the NUMBER ONE REASON that Ford and GM are struggling.

That and high healthcare. The ridiculous wages and benefits the unions demand tie in with the healthcare issue tho.

Fixed

Douchebag here, signing in. Would you like a new headgasket with your Ford?

I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

LOL, you've never changed a head gasket, apparently. Resurface the head, check the valves, replace any burned valves, replace the valve seats, the keepers, possibly the springs, shorten the valve stems to match the material removed in the resurfacing of the head, buy the gasket (probably from the dealer at a hugely inflated price), and since you've got it all apart you better change the timing belt, tensioner(s) and perhaps the front seals if they need it. Then you can replace the valve cover gasket as well while putting it back together.

There you have it, you've just sold not just your entire weekend, but probably $500. Now multiply that by 52. Can you afford that time and money?

Only a complete nimrod would make such an assertion, man. Pull your head out already!

Jason

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

See that's the thing - the Chinese make cheap crap. So that's the equivalent of buying an American car, not a Japanese car.

That's often true. But if I can get a car for $5,000 that will last me 100,000 miles I'm *still* ahead of the American car which will cost me $20,000 and if I'm *lucky* it will last 100,000 miles.

Jason

Hurray for exaggeration :roll:

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Unions will never go for it, Delphi will be bankrupt.


Japanese car driving douchebags are the NUMBER ONE REASON that Ford and GM are struggling.

That and high healthcare. The ridiculous wages and benefits the unions demand tie in with the healthcare issue tho.

Fixed

Douchebag here, signing in. Would you like a new headgasket with your Ford?

I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

LOL, you've never changed a head gasket, apparently. Resurface the head, check the valves, replace any burned valves, replace the valve seats, the keepers, possibly the springs, shorten the valve stems to match the material removed in the resurfacing of the head, buy the gasket (probably from the dealer at a hugely inflated price), and since you've got it all apart you better change the timing belt, tensioner(s) and perhaps the front seals if they need it. Then you can replace the valve cover gasket as well while putting it back together.

There you have it, you've just sold not just your entire weekend, but probably $500. Now multiply that by 52. Can you afford that time and money?

Only a complete nimrod would make such an assertion, man. Pull your head out already!

Jason

and only the biggest of Nimrods would actually believe that a ford or any other car for that matter would need a new headgasket every week. :roll:

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

See that's the thing - the Chinese make cheap crap. So that's the equivalent of buying an American car, not a Japanese car.

Don't worry China is geting quality in fact the last major industries in both contries (Japan and USA) are moving to China to include Autos, Pharmacuticals, chemicals, and shipbuilding. It's easy to have a low wage envrioment when you have a communist opressive human rights violating police state, If that's what we want to compete with you go right ahead but I want no part of it.

You're right that there are *many* legitimate moral reasons *not* to buy anything from China. The fact, however, is that the practical often (usually) overrides the moral, particularly given that most people still think things like "self sacrifice" and "altruism" constitute morality. We can argue all day whether supporting China economically with our purchases is good or bad (bad because we're supporting the greatest human rights violator on the planet, good because through our support, patronage and interaction we *may* be able to help them overcome their history without having a war), but in the end no one knows definitively.

For the moment, an essentially slave market exists in China, and since they're selling, we might as well buy.

Jason

 

[MrBond]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

That's often true. But if I can get a car for $5,000 that will last me 100,000 miles I'm *still* ahead of the American car which will cost me $20,000 and if I'm *lucky* it will last 100,000 miles.

Jason

I read somewhere, I'm not sure if it was here or at another forum I read, but apparently crash test data on the Chinese cars is horrible. They're borderline not-safe. There was one SUV where something like a 40mph impact would have had the driver sustaining "serious injuries".

Like I said, I can't remember where I read that, but it seems like it was in the last month or so. There were pictures and everything - they didn't look like a car I'd want to ride in. If it comes down to me paying an extra $15,000 or being paralyzed/dead, I think I'll pay the extra for a real car.

Edit: found this:

http://motoring.reuters.co.uk/reuters/vocmain.jsp?lnk=101&id=1347

Also found another story saying that it passed all tests that are required to be certified for use in Europe, so who knows.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

See that's the thing - the Chinese make cheap crap. So that's the equivalent of buying an American car, not a Japanese car.

Don't worry China is geting quality in fact the last major industries in both contries (Japan and USA) are moving to China to include Autos, Pharmacuticals, chemicals, and shipbuilding. It's easy to have a low wage envrioment when you have a communist opressive human rights violating police state, If that's what we want to compete with you go right ahead but I want no part of it.

Zebo, did you ever get the feeling you're talking to a room full of selfish, spoiled, short-sighted self-indulgent children?

I dunno about Zebo, but when I listen to you guys I get the impression I'm sitting in a room with a couple of fanboys who think that all you have to do is make a product on *this* continent and it's automatically a good product. I've got news for you: The American automotive industry hasn't produced consistently high quality since the 1960's. Their management *consistently* proves itself to be short-sighted, arrogant and foolish, continuing to sell "Our biggest SUV EVAH!!!" while gas prices rocket past $3 a gallon.

The American Auto industry is OUT OF TOUCH with reality, period. I say we let the NATURAL LAW of the market follow its course, and if that means that GM coughs, sputters and dies, so be it.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Unions will never go for it, Delphi will be bankrupt.


Unions are the NUMBER ONE REASON that Ford and GM are struggling.

That and high healthcare. The ridiculous wages and benefits the unions demand tie in with the healthcare issue tho.

I would say lackluster products are the number one reason.

High fixed costs (many due to union contract obligations) are a big factor, however.

I have 2 GM cars... great vehicles. My Ion would smoke your crappy Civic.

I have a GM Leganza (you know, the one with a sticker on it that says "Daewoo" but is actually 100% General Motors, including the same 2.0 litre 4 cylinder that's used in numerous GM/Chevy/Buick models) and I'll tell you what: It's a piece of sh1t. At one time I also had a Chevy S10, and guess what? Piece of sh1t. At 94,000 miles I had to replace the head gasket on the Leganza, and at 34,000 miles the S10's engine seized and destroyed itself.

By contrast, my very first car, which I still have, incidentally, was a 1982 Datsun 210 with the A14 engine and a 5 speed. It has 349,854 miles on it (just checked it this weekend) and it still has the original *timing chain* on it. Additionally, when I actually still drove it regularly (I drive the newer cars now, obviously) I routinely got 40-45 MPG. The GM Daewoo gets about 25 if I drive well. The S10 is long gone, and the Dodge Dakota my GF drives gets *maybe* 12-15 MPG.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala
I'm still wondering why your company doesn't feel that you're worth nearly as much as GM's folks.
Maybe because there's 18,000 people standing in line waiting to do your job for a lot less?
Don't get too comfortable.

*I* work for a non-Union Aircraft components manufacturer. I'm the Network Administrator and I make *over* $50,000. I've never had a Union job and I've never worked in IT for less than $45,000 *anywhere*. Making $85k in a Union isn't a measure of what you're worth, it's a measure of how much your Union has managed to lie, cheat and steal on your behalf.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo

What do you do for a living? I'll be sure to get it from China next time. Or even better hire an illegal mexican cheap to do it for me.

See that's the thing - the Chinese make cheap crap. So that's the equivalent of buying an American car, not a Japanese car.

Don't worry China is geting quality in fact the last major industries in both contries (Japan and USA) are moving to China to include Autos, Pharmacuticals, chemicals, and shipbuilding. It's easy to have a low wage envrioment when you have a communist opressive human rights violating police state, If that's what we want to compete with you go right ahead but I want no part of it.

Zebo, did you ever get the feeling you're talking to a room full of selfish, spoiled, short-sighted self-indulgent children?

It does'nt bother me..It's a fad. Give it another 20 years or less and they find themselves competing in a cheap labor job market and walmart is the only place they can afford to shop.

I used to love japanese cars myself had a 4runner and a landcruiser at certain times until I thought about the devestation to my countrymen in Michigan to the benefit of Japanese.

Awww, what a valiant, long-suffering self-sacrificial martyr you are! Poor baby, having to suffer with crap quality in order to help your fellow man! How noble!

:roll:

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: shilala
I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

Well, while you spend $700 to put in a new head gasket every week, I'll be saving it so my kid can go to college some day. Get a clue.

Where exactly is that kid going to get a job?
There's your clue.

Actually, that's not a clue into anything except your mentality, which is this: Maintain the status quo. You imagine a world in which your kids work at the same job for 30-40 years and retire, safe in knowing that they can't be fired, that they're immune from the market, from competition, from someone else who does a *better* job than they do.

Unions artificially inflate wages. At one time they tried to get fair wages for SKILLED workers, now they work to get *absurd* wages for *UNSKILLED* workers, a practice which *can NOT* be sustained. A grocery clerk should NOT be making $20 an hour, buying a house and raising a family. He or she should be scanning those groceries for minimum wage or a little above while they go to COLLEGE and get an education so they can contribute to the real world in a meaningful way and *justify* a high wage.

When you demand high wages for even the most unskilled workers you spit in the face of everyone who busted their ass to learn a skill, earn a degree and elevate *themselves* to a higher station than they started in. Today's Union mentality is a big "Fvck you!" to education, to skill, to hard work, efficiency and integrity.

Homer Simpson summed it up well:

"I always wanted to be a Teamster. Mmm...lazy and surly..."

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Yreka

Originally posted by: Zebo

I'm not in a union.. But I understand the more we distribute a companies profit the more gets spent and drives the economy and increases standard of lving. Every business relies on wages ultimatly for sucess which is why high wage Europe/Japan and the USA are primary markets.

I was in college, in culinary union as a banquet server. And yea I mnade about 3x what an OutBack server makes which allowed me to buy a house, a new 4runner (before I stopped buying japanese) eat at steak houses all while still in school which benefited a builder, a resturant owner, a car dealer. What's your $5 McDonlads worker doing for his local econ?

What you say is true to a point, but there needs to be a balance. You can take that line of thinking right up to having the line workers earning even wages with the CEO. What happens then ? They have to pay the skilled positions even less, so the quality people will go work somewhere else thus hurting the company as a whole. Why am I going to go to school and work my ass off to become an engineer? I can just get a job out of high school bolting fenders on frames making the same amount of $$. Once the cost of labor gets pushed so far out of balance it is ultimately bad for the company as a whole, the product turns to $hit and consumers vote with their dollars. Unfortunately when this happens, it is usually the ?working man? that gets hit the hardest.

There needs to be a compromise, and right now especially in the automotive industry the Unions have too much power. They are artificially increasing the value of unskilled labor right past ?fair wage? and into obscurity. This is forcing American Companies either into bankruptsy or overseas outsourcing.

We have seen what happens when there are no unions, and big business runs rampant *ex The Jungle, Upton Sinclair* but now it seems that the pendulum is swinging the other way. I just hope we can get it back in the middle before its too late.

Of course there has to be balance But we should not be trading with countries who have no regaurd for human rights unless we want to become like them because we can never compete with such a labor pool unless we do.

So you say the "Unions have too much power." I disagree and say corps pushing for free trade have too much power. Corps which have gotten lengthy drug patent extensions to inflate thier profits for years have too much power.etc. Thier goal is simple on the "free trade" deal and that's subject americans to the third world slave wage labor abitrage, ultimatly lowering our standard of living. It's a political decision and the only "middle" is are you willing to work for $150 a month?

That's right folks, you heard it here first, from Zebo: Corporations (meaning people who get together to provide a product or service and turn a profit to feed their families, put their kids through school, etc.) have TOO MUCH FREEDOM. In order to fight countries like China, who don't respect Freedom, we've got to tighten up and make sure our own people have LESS FREEDOM than they do now. The best way to fight against violations of human rights is to commit *more* violations of human rights, and the best way to ensure that American business keeps going is to ensure that they pay more than their business model can sustain not only to their employees, but to their *past* employees and their spouses and children ad infinitum!

Remember, only by curbing the freedom of Americans who run businesses can we ensure their success and help overcome the lack of freedom suffered by those in China!

:roll:

Jason

 

So, how many of you in this thread actually know dephi employees personally? Please, tell me, I'd really like to know. I'm willing to guess it's very close to zero.

I know I do. There are approx. 3800 people employed at a delphi plant near my in Lockport, NY. There have been numerous local articles in the paper about this whole ordeal.

I know 3 people that work there, and a couple more that I would only consider acquaintances. One is a janitor, one is a "warehouse inventory manager" and another is in manufacturing. The janitor makes $23 per hour with full benefits, the inventory "manager" (he really just takes boxes and moves them from one side of the warehouse to another for shipping) makes $27 per hour and the manufacturing guy makes $35.50 per hour. All of these rates include full benefits, hour lunches, and 2 15 minute breaks that extend into 30 min breaks daily. These guys even state that they are overpaid and they love their jobs. They don't lift a finger if they don't have to, they don't do anything beyond their quota, they don't ever go above and beyond. Their reasoning is, "why should we have to, were protected union guys".

You can't sit there and tell me these guys arn't over paid for their menial jobs that they do the absolute least they can possibly get away with legally. They do very little, get paid a lot and LOVE IT.

Now that the Lockport plant is in very serious danger of closing these people are extremely concerned. The jobs they are doing shouldn't fetch over $15 per hour in this area. So western NY is looking to have about 3800 people, approx 3300 of which are union employees thrust into the unemployment system. From there they will move on to much lower paying jobs, with realistic benefits and no ridiculous pension plans awaiting them. Hope you had fun boys, time to join the rest of the world, hold on a minute, let me shed a tear for you.

I do feel for the very long time employees who's entire families have been working there for generations. They will be losing their pension and their lifetime health benefits. That does suck for them, but guess what, lifetime health benefits and a VERY generous pension are dreams of most workers in the force today. Looks like NY is going to take on more of a burdon to pay for these people who had no thought of actually saving a dime of their income their entire lives. Sucks, but I just can't feel sorry for such lack of financial foresight.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: Zebo
But we should not be trading with countries who have no regaurd for human rights unless we want to become like them because we can never compete with such a labor pool unless we do.

Um... Japan and Germany? Huh? They have no regard for human rights?

Japan is iffy. Easily the most rasict society on the planet. They imported hundreds of thousands of koreans for labor in the 70's and 80's and when thier enonomy took a dump they shipped them all back, no rights, no vote, no nothing.

So what? If you need extra help that your own people can't provide you allow GUEST workers until you don't need them anymore. Key word here, dude, is GUEST. They come, they do the job, they go home. They aren't citizens, guess what? NO VOTE. If America's current administration had ANY balls at all, they'd ship back the 12 million or so ILLEGAL ALIENS who've scurried across our borders. NO Citizenship, NO VOTE.

Germany is alright unless you're a turk (about 12%) of the pop, again imported to work, then good luck ever getting citzenship.

Again, you go on with the citizenship. GUEST workers don't get citizenship. They come, they do the job, they LEAVE. When you hire a contractor to remodel your house do they get familial rights? Do they get to kick back on the sofa and watch TV? Stay for dinner? Spend Christmas Eve with the family? No. They come, they do the job, they go home to their own families.

But that's not the main issue to me but instead I'd rather employ a fellow american with my purchase since I know they will be spending thier paycheck in our community.

You'd rather employ a fellow American, yet you rave for voting rights for people who aren't even Citizens? Nice of you to show your inconsistency even more. If you want Americans to get first crack at American jobs, then we have to have MORE freedom for employers to negotiate proper wages with employees and LESS attempts to FORCE absurd wages for unskilled services.

Third, the products according to most professionals like JD power and the after market warranty biz are pretty much the same. Don't even bother quoting unscientific CR. I prefer acuaries for my numbers and you'll find it's the same to warranty an Japanese car as a FORD.

Yes, which Ford has 100,000 mile warranty? Which Ford gets 50 miles per gallon and runs super clean?

Ford, just like GM, is OUT OF TOUCH. That's one of the many reasons why they're LOSING MONEY every time they sell a car.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: shilala
I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

Well, while you spend $700 to put in a new head gasket every week, I'll be saving it so my kid can go to college some day. Get a clue.

Where exactly is that kid going to get a job?
There's your clue.

maybe in an industry that not featherbedded by people with no economic sense what so ever? If you base your purchasing on the fact that the car is domestic (whatever that means nowdays), you give the maker a disincentive to innovate. Capitalism is a very American concept and that's why everyone should buy the best product... not the best GM or Ford have to offer.

Capitalism does not, nor has it ever, suggested that you cut your own throat.

The concept of capitalism changes dramatically simply by considering time frames.
Pick a scenario. Think in terms of weeks.
Now think of the scenario in months. Now, in years.

Now inject some history. See?

Capitalism begins with the concept that each man is the owner of HIS OWN LIFE, and that no other man has a right to FORCE him to do anything, nor to agree or disagree, nor to work for the benefit of others without payment.

UNIONS circumvent Capitalism altogether by using FORCE and THREATS to EXTORT absurd wages and benefits from some people to be provided to others. Today's Union is the equivelent of a mugger in Central Park who demands your wallet lest he blow your brains out. Your position is essentially to defend the mugger and call the victim a greedy @sshole for not wanting to voluntarily surrender the money he worked all week to get.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: shilala
I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

Well, while you spend $700 to put in a new head gasket every week, I'll be saving it so my kid can go to college some day. Get a clue.

Where exactly is that kid going to get a job?
There's your clue.

With all the money I'll save on fixing my P.O.S. car, I'll send that fvcking kid to school in Europe for all I care.

Listen, I take GOOD care of my car. I watch for any problems I know to watch for. I check the fluids and tires when I go on any long drives. I change the oil (full synthetic) every 3000 miles, even though the synthetic will EASILY last me 7 - 8k miles. I have never had an American car that didn't constantly break down. If they were even CLOSE on quality, I'd do it. But I can't afford to continue pumping money into cars.

you are a dumb ass.

i can't keep my japanese car out of the garage. ABS is out, paint has flaked off, horrible buzz in the dash board, bad clunk on the rear bushings, annoying rattle in the passenger door.

the car is an '03 with 22k miles.

Do tell, what make and model is it? I ask because I've got an '82 Datsun 210 with 349,000 miles on it that still has the original *timing chain*.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Zebo

I think you guys (specifically ZEBO and SHILALA) are a bunch of hypocrites.

you guys are. You justify and even take a certian amount of joy in seeing these workers displaced as "capitalism" when in fact they are competing with socialist exporters. Companies where the whole nation subsidizes thier few exporters with life time pensions and health care. In effect while proclaiming to be a champion of capitalism you are susidizing communism or socialism if you buy from any German/Jap/Chinese company or product.

Sure they have it easy when businesses are from the burden of having to worry about those expenses. Even starting a small business much easier w/o those concerns since the govt in subsidizing. Tariffs are entire justified on this premise alone, let alone human rights concerns.

There's nothing hypocritical about it. The BEST PRODUCT at the BEST PRICE should win, period. The trouble with people like you, who wish to CIRCUMVENT Capitalism, is that you don't want to be bothered with the EFFORT of competition. You don't want to have to do a better job than the guy down the street, you just want to go to work, do your thing, get your check and not have to bother thinking about it at all. Your position is intellectually LAZY, it's IRRESPONSIBLE, and your sole goal in all of this is to have a cushy, comfy living without any regard for the world around you and the natural laws that govern it.

Shame on you for promoting such an incompetent, lazy, corruption-infested mode of operation.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Unions will never go for it, Delphi will be bankrupt.


Japanese car driving douchebags are the NUMBER ONE REASON that Ford and GM are struggling.

That and high healthcare. The ridiculous wages and benefits the unions demand tie in with the healthcare issue tho.

Fixed

Douchebag here, signing in. Would you like a new headgasket with your Ford?

I'll happily put a new headgasket in my Ford once a week if it means that it'll help create a job for my child (and yours).
I'm funny that way.

LOL, you've never changed a head gasket, apparently. Resurface the head, check the valves, replace any burned valves, replace the valve seats, the keepers, possibly the springs, shorten the valve stems to match the material removed in the resurfacing of the head, buy the gasket (probably from the dealer at a hugely inflated price), and since you've got it all apart you better change the timing belt, tensioner(s) and perhaps the front seals if they need it. Then you can replace the valve cover gasket as well while putting it back together.

There you have it, you've just sold not just your entire weekend, but probably $500. Now multiply that by 52. Can you afford that time and money?

Only a complete nimrod would make such an assertion, man. Pull your head out already!

Jason

and only the biggest of Nimrods would actually believe that a ford or any other car for that matter would need a new headgasket every week. :roll:

Fair enough, that wasn't the point. The point is to illustrate the *ABSURDITY* of his statement.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: MrBond

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

That's often true. But if I can get a car for $5,000 that will last me 100,000 miles I'm *still* ahead of the American car which will cost me $20,000 and if I'm *lucky* it will last 100,000 miles.

Jason

I read somewhere, I'm not sure if it was here or at another forum I read, but apparently crash test data on the Chinese cars is horrible. They're borderline not-safe. There was one SUV where something like a 40mph impact would have had the driver sustaining "serious injuries".

Like I said, I can't remember where I read that, but it seems like it was in the last month or so. There were pictures and everything - they didn't look like a car I'd want to ride in. If it comes down to me paying an extra $15,000 or being paralyzed/dead, I think I'll pay the extra for a real car.

Edit: found this:

http://motoring.reuters.co.uk/reuters/vocmain.jsp?lnk=101&id=1347

Also found another story saying that it passed all tests that are required to be certified for use in Europe, so who knows.

Read that, too. Of course, that's from one particular manufacturer, not all of them. I agree that I'd pay more for a safer car if there were a substantial risk. However, anything that ends up sold in the US WILL have to pass US safety standards, so it should be plenty fine.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: SampSon
So, how many of you in this thread actually know dephi employees personally? Please, tell me, I'd really like to know. I'm willing to guess it's very close to zero.

I know I do. There are approx. 3800 people employed at a delphi plant near my in Lockport, NY. There have been numerous local articles in the paper about this whole ordeal.

I know 3 people that work there, and a couple more that I would only consider acquaintances. One is a janitor, one is a "warehouse inventory manager" and another is in manufacturing. The janitor makes $23 per hour with full benefits, the inventory "manager" (he really just takes boxes and moves them from one side of the warehouse to another for shipping) makes $27 per hour and the manufacturing guy makes $35.50 per hour. All of these rates include full benefits, hour lunches, and 2 15 minute breaks that extend into 30 min breaks daily. These guys even state that they are overpaid and they love their jobs. They don't lift a finger if they don't have to, they don't do anything beyond their quota, they don't ever go above and beyond. Their reasoning is, "why should we have to, were protected union guys".

You can't sit there and tell me these guys arn't over paid for their menial jobs that they do the absolute least they can possibly get away with legally. They do very little, get paid a lot and LOVE IT.

Now that the Lockport plant is in very serious danger of closing these people are extremely concerned. The jobs they are doing shouldn't fetch over $15 per hour in this area. So western NY is looking to have about 3800 people, approx 3300 of which are union employees thrust into the unemployment system. From there they will move on to much lower paying jobs, with realistic benefits and no ridiculous pension plans awaiting them. Hope you had fun boys, time to join the rest of the world, hold on a minute, let me shed a tear for you.

I do feel for the very long time employees who's entire families have been working there for generations. They will be losing their pension and their lifetime health benefits. That does suck for them, but guess what, lifetime health benefits and a VERY generous pension are dreams of most workers in the force today. Looks like NY is going to take on more of a burdon to pay for these people who had no thought of actually saving a dime of their income their entire lives. Sucks, but I just can't feel sorry for such lack of financial foresight.

Excellent post. Guaranteed jobs are a *bad idea* and always have been. Such guarantees ALWAYS breed complacency. If you're no better or worse off if you move 1 box or 50 boxes, why move the 50 boxes? A little fear for your job is a GOOD thing. It keeps you motivated, keeps you sharp, keeps you from degrading into the worst sort of human being imagineable.

Jason