Gnome 2.14 released....

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
Fedora Core 5 will be released on the 20th and I *think* will have Gnome 2.14.

There's some serious momentum happening with the free desktops (but Gnome is my favorite). I used to think the whole KDE vs. Gnome war was bad for Linux but now it seems like they have a healthy competition going, plus sharing innovations.

Big thank-you to the developers.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: spherrod
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
The "demo" doesn't work.

Gnome seems to be broken in OpenBSD, I'll avoid it.

Demo took a long time to load here but eventually popped up

It seems to require some plugin for firefox.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: Nothinman
It seems to require some plugin for firefox.

Yep, it's a flash demo.

Yay for open source!


No s**t. This sort of thing is irritating. I wish they'd just have a theora ogg file or something like that. Much nicer. Also then I'd be able to pause and rewind and stuff like that.

Although.. to be fair the FSF/GNU folks are working on a solution, which has seen quite a bit renewed activity. http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ (gplflash2 folks have mostly gone to gnash also)

That and the GNU Java compiler and Classpath libraries, which are maturing also.
http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/java/index.html
http://www.kaffe.org/~stuart/japi/htmlout/h-jdk14-classpath.html (98.67% compatible with jdk14 tests)
 

Cdeck

Member
May 13, 2005
58
0
0
worked for me using linux, the latest version of firefox with macromedia's flash plugin version 7.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
worked for me using linux, the latest version of firefox with macromedia's flash plugin version 7.

That's the point, it requires the non-free flash plugin to view a demo of an OSS project.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Lol at the comment Nothinman....


Anyways I'm still thinking about it....and I've realized that Linux needs stuff like this to be implented to really bring people over. It is great if you always have compatability with Windows, but some people hang onto Windows because despite the fact Linux works greater with whatever desktop they are using, there are a few key applications that keep them there. Likewise Linux needs to do the same: strive for compatablity but add features, such as this, that you can't find elsewhere so people will WANT to migrate. Yeah its OSS so people can go and implement it on their operating system but realistically microsoft can't just add these kind of features without waiting for a new Operating system version. Like this, they have to be simple and revoluationary.

I remember with Win 3.1 even though I used DOS 90% of the time because it played my games better and there were too many confusing icons (I was seven at most What do you excepct) I loved booting into it because of simple stuff like PAINT. While I think I've grown past paint, the desire to use something to get a specific feature still exists.

And to think that in TUX Magazine the "Mango Parfait" lady HATES Gnome...one less reason for her to
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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0
That's what is hopefully nice about things like XGL.

What exactly XGL is trying to do is rewrite the X.org Xserver to run on a OpenGL API.

By itself it isn't a big deal.. but in Linux the software is always in layers, just kinda slapped together sometimes. This means that in order for it to be stable and working the various peices have to have well defined barriers and ways to communicate between the 'layers'.

For instance you can take a normal Gnome-style application that was designed a couple years ago with nice bitmapped graphics and a older sort of file chooser and stuff. Now you can take it and turn it into a vector-based graphics system that is opengl accelerated and with new dialogs and file choosers and such.. without rewriting it much of it, if at all. With Windows or OS X if you want this you realy have to rewrite your applicaitons to a new API.

Were XGL ties into this is with the 'eye' candy graphics. With OS X and probably Vista all the special behaviors it's all hard-coded into the system. With X Windows since it's all very compartamentalized you can change out parts to suite yourself.

Both Metacity and Compiz provide their own different composition effects. Compiz is a composition manager turned Window manager and Metacity is a window manager with composition effects added on.

But they are pretty much interchangable (or at least will be once the bugs are worked out). Other Window managers with their own special effects with their own new ideas can be used... Some lightweight, some very heavy. All sorts of crazy stuff. Even E17 will probably benifit from this sort of stuff.

And X windows has lots and lots of potential. It's a very weird thing and it's just to bad that it's grown obsolete.. with all of the XGL and X.org taking it over is giving it new life.

And it's not just X windows.. since everything is compartmentalize you can modify the system to do most anything..
For instance this: http://www.plastk.net/ Play Quake3 using a Linux cluster with 12 machines on 24 displays...
X with chromium and dmx
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: Nothinman
worked for me using linux, the latest version of firefox with macromedia's flash plugin version 7.

That's the point, it requires the non-free flash plugin to view a demo of an OSS project.

worked in pclos ..
I couldn't tell you if it was free or nonfree all I know is I didn't pay for it and it worked.
 

bersl2

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Lol at the comment Nothinman....

Did I miss a joke somewhere?

I think it's an expression of amusement more than humor.

I agree that the use of Flash is absurd, insofar as many FOSS programs exist that output Flash files, but no FOSS program can yet consume and display Flash. The faster Gnash gets done, the better. But of course, the long term solution is SVG + Javascript w/extensions (or equivalent scripting language); so until 1.1 Full compliance is complete for many browsers, Flash it is.
 

Seeruk

Senior member
Nov 16, 2003
986
0
0
It's (deskbar) a nice touch, but not a defining feature that would make me choose it over another desktop. Most of the functionality is just context search which is already in Vista & Many of the desktop toolbars around.

But pulling all the pieces together, XGL, things like the deskbar, and so on will mean a competitive linux desktop in the near future. But it's all still copycat/catchup stuff and thats never going to be enough.

For a compelling reason to use Linux (I am talking purely UI here) they need to be a trailblazer... do something new... as I have argued in another post Vista/OSX/Linux... they are all still using the basic design principal of a Windows 95 desktop with a 2-d mouse.

The tech to do the true 3-d UI with a wireless 3-d input device such as something like a nintendo revolution controller or a glove instead of a mouse has been around for donkey's years now, would have massive benefits in terms of reducing RSI etc and be ultimately a true freeform way of controlling your bits and bytes.

 

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
Originally posted by: Seeruk
It's (deskbar) a nice touch, but not a defining feature that would make me choose it over another desktop. Most of the functionality is just context search which is already in Vista & Many of the desktop toolbars around.

But pulling all the pieces together, XGL, things like the deskbar, and so on will mean a competitive linux desktop in the near future. But it's all still copycat/catchup stuff and thats never going to be enough.

For a compelling reason to use Linux (I am talking purely UI here) they need to be a trailblazer... do something new... as I have argued in another post Vista/OSX/Linux... they are all still using the basic design principal of a Windows 95 desktop with a 2-d mouse.

The tech to do the true 3-d UI with a wireless 3-d input device such as something like a nintendo revolution controller or a glove instead of a mouse has been around for donkey's years now, would have massive benefits in terms of reducing RSI etc and be ultimately a true freeform way of controlling your bits and bytes.

You do realize that Microsoft copied Apple's interface and that Apple copied the work done by Xerox PARC back in the 70's right? Graphical windows, icons, and mouse pointers all existed before Microsoft. You make is sound like Linux is ripping off all the "innovations" of Windows.

There have been plenty of attempts at new desktop motifs and lots of wacky inputs devices, but humans don't need more visualizations of data -- they need less. Overlap transparent windows and now you have confusion plus poor readibility. Rotate a display in 3D space and you've introduce distortion via perspective scaling. Your brain has to work slighly harder to read skewed words.

Our most efficient means of conveying visual information are the little glyphs I'm typing out right now -- in our case a western alphabet and arabic numerals. They are the most clear when presented in two dimensions and box up nicely in rectangles. A truly radical desktop would require migrating the human race from the written word to something Gutenberg could never have imagined.

If you look at what's being called innovation today you'll notice a running theme -- less. Less information packed into the same space. We're giving up pixel real estate for shadow effects, thick, colorful borders, and large boxes to logically group icons by function.

Simple. Flexible. Clear. That's the future.

All modern desktops are converging in capability and functionality because good ideas propagate and bad ones don't. Add cross platform applications and theme-skinning and suddenly it doesn't matter which one you're using.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: Nothinman
worked for me using linux, the latest version of firefox with macromedia's flash plugin version 7.

That's the point, it requires the non-free flash plugin to view a demo of an OSS project.

worked in pclos ..
I couldn't tell you if it was free or nonfree all I know is I didn't pay for it and it worked.

Didn't play in Win2k.
 

Seeruk

Senior member
Nov 16, 2003
986
0
0
Originally posted by: doornail
You do realize that Microsoft copied Apple's interface and that Apple copied the work done by Xerox PARC back in the 70's right? Graphical windows, icons, and mouse pointers all existed before Microsoft. You make is sound like Linux is ripping off all the "innovations" of Windows.

Is it me or is that little story guaranteed to come out within the 1st 10 posts of any interface forum post

Unlike a lot of people, I couldn't give a flying rats ass who invented what. But what I do care about is looking beyond the candy and the petty arguments of the OS obsessives who infest tech forums (like anandtech) that like to identify themselves through a freaking operating system.

Look at the KDE interface and tell me how it differs from a windows 95 interface. Likewise with gnome. The only real difference in OSX is the 'bar's position and shape. I am not saying MS 'invented' anything nor am I saying anyone is ripping off anyone elses design. I am merely using Windows 95's UI as example to say things havent moved on in over a decade!

At most the 'Deskbar' is a widget. I was merely saying it's not particularly groundbreaking nor innovative, thus no reason to choose gnome above anything else.

Back to the 2d/3d thing.

You do realise that a UI is only 25% about the display? The rest is the control mechanism and that interaction between user and data.

Of course data has to be displayed as text (duh). But at the risk of repeating other posts I have made, there are three dimensional ways of working that would benefit a computer users health and risk of injury MASSIVELY.

The mouse has to go!! It strains the tiniest and 'most painful if injured' muscles of the hand and wrist. ALL THAT DOUBLE CLICKING! Instead of a double click... a simple forward motion with a finger or an object would suffice. Instead of stretching two fingers for an 'alt-tab'... a gesture such as turning the hand through 90 degrees on a vertical axis would be both simple, more natural AND FASTER. A thumbs-up with the hand instead of clicking on an OK button, a thumbs down to cancel, playing an FPS shooter could be steered through motion detection with the left hand, whilst holding an imaginary gun with trigger in the right hand.

These few simple examples would reduce RSI injuries by the thousands as they would be natural movements using the whole arm and shoulders rather than a couple of tiny and easily damaged muscles in the hand. Such an input device would not require the sitting of the operator at the desk in a stiff, unnatural and stressful position. You could be lying back on a sofa like you are when you use a TV remote, or standing whilst doing something else.

XGL is NOT a 3d interface. Nor is any windows interface. It simulates the effect but I can't reach around the monitor and touch the back of the image can I?
 

doornail

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
333
0
0
Originally posted by: Seeruk
Is it me or is that little story guaranteed to come out within the 1st 10 posts of any interface forum post

Gosh, facts can be so darn annoying.

Unlike a lot of people, I couldn't give a flying rats ass who invented what.

Which, sadly makes your comments less insightful.

But what I do care about is looking beyond the candy and the petty arguments of the OS obsessives who infest tech forums (like anandtech) that like to identify themselves through a freaking operating system.

Dude, you troll Linux threads on here like it was your day job. You seem more than a little obsessed with a particular OS.
 
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