"going green", part two - mini-PCs!

[VirtualLarry]

In case you missed the first installment of this series, it was here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2390507

Currently, I have two Q9300 rigs (not currently in service), two G3258 rigs with 7950 3GB cards (one not built yet), two Asus N2830 laptops (one on hold for a neighbor to buy), and several Winbook TW700 tablets (1GB, 16GB, Win8.1 w/Bing).

The Asus N2830 laptops were purchased as low-cost, low-power replacements for the Q9300 rigs. The TW700 tablets were purchased as a replacement for the Asus N2830 laptops (as even lower-cost and lower-powered replacements).

The G3258 rigs were kind of for gaming if I wanted to do any, and DC.

All of these rigs were connected via HDMI to two 24" LCD TVs used as monitors.

Usage is web browsing (this forum), and Skype, and some DC and gaming, on the desktops.

The N2830 laptops and the Z3735-based TW700 tablets (quad-cores, even!), were both adequate for my basic usage. Only problem was, in order to get the N2830 laptop to display in 1080P on my 24" LCD, I had to use WIN+P, and select "External display only", and then close the lid. But in order to take a Skype call, I had to open the lid again, and select "both displays", which lowered the resolution on the main monitor to 1366x768, and re-arranged my desktop windows. It was a minor PITA.

So I got the TW700 tablets. Only 1GB RAM was somewhat limiting, but with the 16GB eMMC, paging wasn't so bad. Skype was fine. Those have a USB2.0 host port, and a micro-HDMI out, so with the help of a USB hub with a charging port, and an adapter cable for the HDMI, I was able to use it as a makeshift desktop. I could even use the camera for Skype by leaning it up against my monitor at the right angle.

However, the one tablet I was testing for that duty, I found lots of "Disk" warnings in Eventlog, mentioning I/O retries.

Edit: This thread is not actually about saving the environment. Hence the quotes in the title. It's about bang for buck in low-power rigs.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, enter some nano-PC desktops:

Asus VivoMini (Celeron 2957U barebones) $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110129
Gigabyte Brix i3-5010U "H" model (Broadwell i3, 2.1Ghz, barebones, but comes with AC wifi and Bluetooth) $290
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164021
Zotac ZBOX-BI320-U (Celeron 2957U barebones, no integrated wifi) $112
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173102

Was thinking of just junking (well, selling) the desktop PCs altogether, giving away the tablets, and selling the laptops, and replacing all of them, with some nano-desktops.

Only, this time I would look a little higher on the product stack. Probably go with 8 or 16GB RAM, and either an mSATA or 2.5" SSD as appropriate for the device. (Asus takes mSATA, Zotac takes 2.5" SSD, and the Brix i3 "H" model takes both / either.)

Uncharacteristically, I was thinking of going for the most expensive choice out of the three. In terms of future-proofing, the Brix "H" model has both mSATA and 2.5" SSD. Plus, it has HDMI and mini-DP, and (I think) supports 4K. (Being Broadwell, it darn well better.)

(I was thinking of getting that sub-$400 4K@60 monitor, at some point in the future.)

The Asus also supports HDMI as well as DP, but their site only mentions 1080P support, which is fairly disappointing. (Then again, that could be a limitation from Intel, now that I think about it, they may cripple the IGPs of their Celeron CPUs, to only output 1080P max, even over DP. Ridiculous!)

Yeah, the Zotac 2957U unit is really cheap. I mean, it's hard to say, should I aim to purchase a new mini-PC every two years, and buy the cheapest "big core" option (in this case, a Haswell 2957U Celeron), or should I spend more to future-proof with a Broadwell i3 (4K@60 over mini-DP)?

I would prefer to stay away from BT options, thanks. Had mostly enough of BT with the N2830 laptops (can't play 1080P YouTube smoothly) and Z3735 tablets (only 1-2GB RAM max for these CPUs? No 64-bit OS?)

I want something that officially supports Win7 64-bit, a good amount of RAM, and a real SSD.

 

[Shivansps]

Well the first thing i can think off is this, it comes with a 2957u, 2GB (and a 2nd slot), and 64GB mSATA SSD, and still has room for a 2.5" HDD inside.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883218045&cm_re=zotac-_-83-218-045-_-Product

The one without the mSATA and ram is at $112.

A cheap one with a Quad BT is this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX1XH5544&cm_re=zotac-_-83-218-038-_-Product

But it has no ram or HDD, but you probably have those around.

 

[ninaholic37]

I remember once eating a really hot pepper, and my face literally turned green, I never thought that was even possible for your face to actually "go green" except on cartoons until that day. I almost fainted and fell down the stairs.

On topic: I don't buy new computers any more, which is probably a better way to go green I think (not contributing to the manufacturing of new electronics). I love walking and will probably never get a car either. I should throw my cell phone in the recycling bin since I never really use it too. Reading books in daylight FTW

 

[escrow4]

I'd just replace it all with a pair of mATX cases and Haswell refresh i3/H97 setup's. Easy to sell, easy to fix, easy to build and fiddle with. Or the Broadwell equivalent. Fancy BriX/mITX/ZBox meh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd just replace it all with a pair of mATX cases and Haswell refresh i3/H97 setup's. Easy to sell, easy to fix, easy to build and fiddle with. Or the Broadwell equivalent. Fancy BriX/mITX/ZBox meh.

I'm talking about getting Broadwell i3 rigs, and you're trying to talk me backwards into Haswell i3s? That seems... slightly unlike you. Are you feeling OK? I figured you would try to talk me into i5 or i7 Broadwell Brix boxes.

I want something tiny, that I can (possibly) attach to the back of my monitors. Nice and unobtrusive. I already have some ATX towers with G3258 GPUs and 7950 cards. (One not yet built.) I guess, I want to make more room in my small apt. I might keep the ATX rigs around for gaming and DC in the winter. Undecided on that. I guess it depends on how successful I am at trying to sell them off.

I have some dual-drive USB3.0 HDD/SSD docks, that I will use for plugging in HDDs for bulk storage needs.

Edit: The G3258 desktop is giving me trouble, maybe a mini-PC will be more stable?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424534

STOP 0x101, and then a hard freeze that I noticed 4 days later.

 

[cbn]

Gigabyte Brix i3-5010U "H" model (Broadwell i3, 2.1Ghz, barebones, but comes with AC wifi and Bluetooth) $290
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164021

If you want an Core i3 in a very small form factor, you might want to also consider one of these (but with Broadwell or Skylake instead of Haswell):

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/o...cid=285111&lid=5447194&acd=123092093822786725

I know those listed prices are rather high, but apparently the Core i3 (35 watt Core i3 4150T) has been on sale for $329 previously --> http://www.extremetech.com/deals/198889-et-deals-dell-optiplex-3020-micro-desktop-pc-for-329

 

[VirtualLarry]

Looking at these two Brix units, the first is Richland (AMD), the second is Broadwell (Intel).
I'm a bit disappointed that the Richland will NOT do 4K@60 over the DP output. Broadwell will, in fact, it will do 4K over HDMI too.

GB-BXA8-5557 (rev. 1.0)
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5414

HDMI Resolution (Max.) 1920 x 1080 @60Hz
Mini DP Resolution (Max.) 4096 x 2160 @30Hz

GB-BXi3H-5010 (rev. 1.0)
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5328

HDMI Resolution (Max.) 4096 x 2304 @ 24Hz
Mini DP Resolution (Max.) 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz

Then there's the Intel NUC Broadwell i3-5010U "H" model, with M.2 and 2.5" SATA.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102093

 

[cbn]

Here is a review on that Optiplex 3020 Micro:

http://www.itproportal.com/reviews/hardware/dell-optiplex-3020-micro-review/

According to the review it does come with M.2 for SSD (So the storage goes beyond just having a single 2.5" drive)

And here is a video showing the board up close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwQgx921O-w

(It does come with two SO-DIMM slots)

 

[coercitiv]

It's about bang for buck in low-power rigs.

As counter intuitive as it may sound, laptops beat mini PCs at bang for the buck.

When an Intel NUC with i7 5250 + RAM + Storage ends up being priced around the same as a notebook with i7 4712MQ + Nvidia 840M, you realize that choosing the NUC will not get you best bang for the buck.

The only thing the miniPC has up it's sleeve is the smaller footprint.

 

[cbn]

Another tiny desktop from a major OEM:

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/m93-m93p#tab-tech_specs

Looking at the picture gallery and specs I noticed there were various options for video outs.

P.S. Looking up some past hot deals, I noticed versions with Core i5-4570T (dual core with four threads), 8GB, 128GB SSD, Windows 7 Professional 64 bit versions were going for $360.

 

[Shivansps]

And about BT youtube 1080p, check that hardware acceleration is working, on my tablet it only works using IE11, for some unknown reason.

Another good option is definately this one:

http://www.zotac.com/products/mini-...es/detail/zbox-ma710-nano-zbox-ma710nano.html

It just dont seem to be availble anywhere.

 

[cbn]

Here are the specs for HP's mini PC:

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...Ms&CatalogCategoryID=C7IQ7hacbY8AAAFB_a8oJAmk

Like the others it uses a 35 watt processor in the LGA 1150 socket. It has two M.2 slots and a 2.5" drive bay. Video output via two Display ports and a VGA.

I couldn't find any sale prices on this one, but I would expect to eventually see a similar reduction in list price like we saw on the Dell and Lenovo mini-desktops.

 

[Ken g6]

The one problem I see with these ultra-small machines is that you can't put a video card in them. If you want that, [thread=2417090]here are some small gaming desktops[/thread] to consider. I'm personally considering the Silverstone SG05, or the DIYPC HTPC-Cube - though I'm not sure how the airflow is on that last one.

My other problem is that you can't put 32GB of RAM in them with current ITX chipsets. But I suspect that's only a problem for me.

 

[jihe]

G3258 is not much chop for DC... and use your phone to skype...and get a broken laptop for $50 to run headless.

 

[Yuriman]

I saw this linked in another thread and was eyeing it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164010&cm_re=brix_i3-_-56-164-010-_-Product

Haswell i3, SSD + 4GB RAM for $275 is pretty attractive, and it comes with a projector too.

I love the idea of NUCs. I'm currently in the process of downsizing all of the family computers to ITX, but I think NUC will be the next step for those that don't need discrete cards.

 

[Jen]

i have a 4590T and my faithful 5350 kabini , going green works for me


Jen

 

[VirtualLarry]

I saw this linked in another thread and was eyeing it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164010&cm_re=brix_i3-_-56-164-010-_-Product

Haswell i3, SSD + 4GB RAM for $275 is pretty attractive, and it comes with a projector too.

I love the idea of NUCs. I'm currently in the process of downsizing all of the family computers to ITX, but I think NUC will be the next step for those that don't need discrete cards.

Interesting. Not bad, price-wise, but spec-wise, kind of the pits. Neither the HDMI nor the mini-DP support 4K@60, the projector only supports 864x480, and the bundled 4GB/64GB is somewhat limiting too.

I was leaning towards the Intel i3-5010U NUC "H" model for $300. It takes an M.2 SSD, either SATA6G or PCI-E x4, and supports ATA password settings in BIOS. It's also compatible with the Intel 530 M.2 SATA SSD that Newegg carries, with 256-bit AES encryption (which I am assuming that it requires ATA password support to use it).

I also assume, that a PCI-E x4 M.2 SSD won't work with Win7, because no NVMe drivers, and no ATA password support with PCI-E M.2 as well.

 

[cbn]

Larry is there a particular reason you want Broadwell over Haswell?

I was thinking a sale priced mini-computer with that Core i5-4570T is going to have really good bang for the buck. (re: i5-4570T turbos up to 3.6 Ghz which is almost as fast as your OC G3258 Pentium in single thread).

P.S. Apparently Lenovo can install an optional HDMI port in addition to the VGA and Display port

 

[cbn]

The one problem I see with these ultra-small machines is that you can't put a video card in them.

That is true, but I did notice the HP Mini has the option for a A8 PRO-7600B:

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...AFBe3MoJAi_&facet_processortype=AMD+A8+Series

 

[Yuriman]

Mini-ITX is several times larger, but still a fraction of ATX and can accommodate full sized video cards and/or power supplies. Some will even include PCIe risers to lay the card down flat.

 

[cbn]

Mini-ITX is several times larger, but still a fraction of ATX and can accommodate full sized video cards and/or power supplies. Some will even include PCIe risers to lay the card down flat.

With a riser, an enclosure for Micro-ATX would not be much larger than an enclosure for Mini-ITX (re: the video card is going to lay flat in the area occupied by the other expansion slots). But Micro-ATX is often cheaper and allows more options to be used.

Actually, if laying a full size video card flat (via riser) the lower most part of the video card will line up the bottom edge of an ATX motherboard (though ATX motherboards usually have their PCIe x16 lane in the second position rather than the first position as with Mini-ITX and Micro-ATX)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Larry is there a particular reason you want Broadwell over Haswell?

Proper 4K@60 support, for the most part. Thinking of maybe getting a 4K monitor in a few years. It would be nice if I could keep the NUC for a few years too, and have it all work out.

 

[cbn]

Proper 4K@60 support, for the most part. Thinking of maybe getting a 4K monitor in a few years. It would be nice if I could keep the NUC for a few years too, and have it all work out.

Display port 1.2 on Haswell does support 4K @ 60 FPS.

P.S. According to this article only the Y-SKUs on Haswell didn't have 4K support:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8355/intel-broadwell-architecture-preview/3

Finally, Broadwell’s display controller will be receiving an update of its own. Broadwell is too soon for HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort 2.0 – it will support HDMI 1.4 and DP 1.2/eDP 1.3a respectively – but the Y SKU in particular is getting native support for 4K. This is admittedly something of a backport since Haswell already supports 4K displays, but in Haswell’s case that feature was not available on Haswell-Y, so this is the first time native 4K support has come to a Y series SKU. This means that Broadwell-Y will be able to drive 4K displays, whether that means a 4K display in the device itself, or a 4K display hooked up internally (with an overall limit of 2 displays on Broadwell-Y). Don’t expect Broadwell-Y to have the performance necessary to do intensive rendering at this resolution, but for desktop work and video playback this should be enough.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Display port 1.2 on Haswell does support 4K @ 60 FPS.

P.S. According to this article only the Y-SKUs on Haswell didn't have 4K support:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8355/intel-broadwell-architecture-preview/3

That's all well and good, but why don't the device specs show that?

Brix projector
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4779#sp
HDMI Resolution (Max.) 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz
Mini DP Resolution (Max.) 3840 x 2160 @ 24 Hz