Good book: High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way

[PlatinumGold]

Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.

No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??

 

[WhoDeeny]

Originally posted by: NFS4

If you replaced all the SUVs on the road with cars (and their better mileage), we would be using that much less oil per day. That was unfortunately the best estimate I could come up with since I was unable to find an exact figure for how much of the oil fueling the transportation industry is used by passenger vehicles. If someone could dig up that figure we could extrapolate a more accurate yearly oil savings figure based on number of cars vs SUVs on the road and their relative average mileage figures.

Why don't we all just drive Honda Civics then? They're good on gas. Hell, lets get rid of all the pickups too. The suck up SOOOOOOOO much gas. Hell, nobody needs pickups. No one needs SUVs either, right?

Stop sounding off like a selfish tree-hugger.

People do need the utility of trucks and SUV's however they stoped being utilitarian and became Yuppie status sybmols about as fast as they hit the market. What gets me is how many of these SUV's are ever even used for their intended purpose? How many of them ever even see a dirt road or anything more than a large stash of groceries? People buy them thinking they're more safe but that just isn't true. In fact they're more dangerous than most cars and there are statistics to prove it.

And get it right NFS4, its Tree Hugging, Dirt Worshipper

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.

No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??

So are you saying there is no practical reason to buy a mid-size SUV? How about comfort? How about storing capacity (with the exception of the Rav-4 maybe)?

And there is another way to get more spacious than a minivan and that's a full-size van, which I own. It uses just as much gas, rolls just as easy and will destroy a smaller car just as easy as an SUV. Damn, I need to remind myself to keep my mouth shut when the going is good.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.

No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??

Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

 

[PlatinumGold]

And there is another way to get more spacious than a minivan and that's a full-size van, which I own. It uses just as much gas, rolls just as easy and will destroy a smaller car just as easy as an SUV. Damn, I need to remind myself to keep my mouth shut when the going is good.

Nope, not suggesting anything of the kind. BUT, station wagons are more utilitarian than mid sized SUV's.

also, as to your contention that full sized vans are JUST as dangerous, actually that's not true because clearance and bumpers are much lower on full sized vans than on SUV's.


Once again, i'm not arguing that NO one should buy SUV's, just that when they do buy one they should be educated to the TRUTH about SUV's, the dangers they present to other vehicles, the dangers of thinking SUV's are soo much safer than other cars, etc.

 

[PlatinumGold]

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.
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No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??
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Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

I guess you missed the part where he said CHILDREN. i can fit 3 children comfortably in the back of the prius and it accelerates fine.

again, my argument isn't that SUV's are no more useful than a PRIUS but that SUV's aren't as roomy compared to their exterior dimensions as other vehicles, Camry, Accord, CIvic to name just a few would fit 5 comfortably. a Station wagon would handle 5 people and luggage as well as or better than mid sized SUV's.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.
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No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??
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Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

I guess you missed the part where he said CHILDREN. i can fit 3 children comfortably in the back of the prius and it accelerates fine.

again, my argument isn't that SUV's are no more useful than a PRIUS but that SUV's aren't as roomy compared to their exterior dimensions as other vehicles, Camry, Accord, CIvic to name just a few would fit 5 comfortably. a Station wagon would handle 5 people and luggage as well as or better than mid sized SUV's.

But who are YOU to decide what's useful for a family or to decide for THEM that a station wagon meets there needs?

This is America, not 80's Russia.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

And there is another way to get more spacious than a minivan and that's a full-size van, which I own. It uses just as much gas, rolls just as easy and will destroy a smaller car just as easy as an SUV. Damn, I need to remind myself to keep my mouth shut when the going is good.

Nope, not suggesting anything of the kind. BUT, station wagons are more utilitarian than mid sized SUV's.

also, as to your contention that full sized vans are JUST as dangerous, actually that's not true because clearance and bumpers are much lower on full sized vans than on SUV's.


Once again, i'm not arguing that NO one should buy SUV's, just that when they do buy one they should be educated to the TRUTH about SUV's, the dangers they present to other vehicles, the dangers of thinking SUV's are soo much safer than other cars, etc.

Station Wagon? Eccchhh! Those are so uncool.

And a station wagon would not fit the need of my family either, since I have four kids. It's either a full size van or an Expedition (or similar model). And I have no problems choosing either one.

 

[Linflas]

The reason the full sized station wagon is no longer marketed is due to CAFE regulations. That is why when Chrysler came out with the original mini van they sold like wildfire. The mini van became the defacto station wagon and since it was classified as a truck it was not subject to the same onerous CAFE regulations as the original station wagons were. All SUV's have done is broaden that market for consumers.

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.
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No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??
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Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

I guess you missed the part where he said CHILDREN. i can fit 3 children comfortably in the back of the prius and it accelerates fine.

again, my argument isn't that SUV's are no more useful than a PRIUS but that SUV's aren't as roomy compared to their exterior dimensions as other vehicles, Camry, Accord, CIvic to name just a few would fit 5 comfortably. a Station wagon would handle 5 people and luggage as well as or better than mid sized SUV's.

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

 

[BooneRebel]

What gets me is how many of these SUV's are ever even used for their intended purpose? How many of them ever even see a dirt road or anything more than a large stash of groceries?

<sigh> I'm so tired of seeing this whine. "Oh, Oh, Oh! He's not even driving his 4x4 off road!" What are you, the SUV spetznaz? Just because a sports car can do 0-60mph in 3 seconds doesn't mean that it has to be driven that way, does it?

Most of the people on these forums are intelligent, practical folks. On any given day, I could be making a trip to Lowe's for hardware, driving to work by myself, taking the family out shopping, or -occassionally- hauling a trailer or going to the lake with a boat, etc.

Now, in an ideal world I would own a pickup to haul materials with, an economy car for commuting, a station wagon for the family, and a 4x4 for camping trails.

Since I put myself in the intelligent, practical category, I realize that I can make due with less than 4 vehicles for far less of an investment while still covering all of my needs. So I own a sport utility. Just because you're a single freshman that doesn't have to worry about hauling anything more than laundry to momma doesn't mean that everyone else falls into that bracket. What gives you the right to mandate my driving habits?

 

[PlatinumGold]

But who are YOU to decide what's useful for a family or to decide for THEM that a station wagon meets there needs?

This is America, not 80's Russia.

I'm exactly who you are implying that I am, a NOBODY, BUT, i'm not saying anyone has to or should buy anything. I'm just expressing my opinion as to the usefulness of such vehicles given the parameters, last i heard that was still allowed in america.

if you read my other long @ss post, you'll see, it's not SUV's i'm soo much against, it's the mentality of the people that buy them. I personally believe that most people have NO IDEA what they are getting into when they buy an SUV.

 

[BooneRebel]

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

I'd say a 27 footer should be able to pull a Prius pretty easily. Once you get up on plane it will probably ride the wake nicely. Just watch out on the tight turns, it can go airborn.

 

[NFS4]

This should give you SUV bashers a big woodie:

Trucks Are Worst for Fuel Economy

The least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road are large pickup trucks, and the Dodge Ram is the worst of the bunch, a new study indicates. The Union of Concerned Scientists says that six of the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. are pickups, and that trucks account for 20 percent of the vehicles sold in the country. The Dodge Ram was singled out for fuel costs of $1,468 a year, or more than $13,000 over the lifetime of the truck, the group says. It based its findings on gas prices of $1.40 a gallon. The group suggests fuel economy in trucks could improve 30 percent through the use of advanced technology.

**Sound of SUV bashers jump their paper ship over to bash pickups**

 

[bulldawg]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
An interesting statistic for you all:

Estimated oil usage in the US for 2002: 7.2 billion barrels

Amount of imported oil: 50%

Amout of oil imported from the middle east in 2001: ~ 1 billion barrels (964 million to be exact) or about 14%

We're using up 1.2 million barrels more per day thanks to the lower fuel-efficiency of SUVs. This means an extra 400 million barrels of oil per year....almost half of what we purchase annually from the middle east. I think our policy-making with regard to the middle east would be a lot less sticky than it is now if they weren't collectively holding that trump card. I don't think that the proposed action on Iraq is "all about oil" as some have said, but I think it is certainly a factor in the decision-making....as is our relative inactivity toward Saudi Arabia (who graced us with 15 of the 19 September 11 terrorists).

Point being, sure you all have the right to purchase a drive an SUV, but at what point is this right outweighed by the need to make some sacrifices in order to somewhat extricate ourselves from the mess in the middle east?

If the fvcking tree huggers wouldn't nut up everytime someone mentioned drilling in the U.S. maybe we could reduce that foreign dependence another way.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

oh VERY good, I'm sooo impressed. oh wait, I never spoke about hauling a trailer at all did i??? i was just speaking on the ONE issue that was brought, up and presented to the EXTREME. CPA said he had more than 2.4 CHILDREN. He never said he planned on hauling boats or horses. oh wait, facts aren't important, just the one liner.

 

[PlatinumGold]

This should give you SUV bashers a big woodie:

Trucks Are Worst for Fuel Economy


Quote

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The least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road are large pickup trucks, and the Dodge Ram is the worst of the bunch, a new study indicates. The Union of Concerned Scientists says that six of the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. are pickups, and that trucks account for 20 percent of the vehicles sold in the country. The Dodge Ram was singled out for fuel costs of $1,468 a year, or more than $13,000 over the lifetime of the truck, the group says. It based its findings on gas prices of $1.40 a gallon. The group suggests fuel economy in trucks could improve 30 percent through the use of advanced technology.
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**Sound of SUV bashers jump their paper ship over to bash pickups**

actually NOT, a higher percentage of Pickups are used commercially and for their intended purpose than SUV's. that's why people jump on SUV's not because they are inherently BAD vehicles, anyone who says so is a moron, but because they are missused.

NSF4, admit it, most of the yuppie women you see driving an SUV have NO CLUE as to how 4 wheel drive is SAFER and how it can be more dangerous, right? ALSO, the perceived safety factor actually makes them MORE DANGEROUS, yes??

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

oh VERY good, I'm sooo impressed. oh wait, I never spoke about hauling a trailer at all did i??? i was just speaking on the ONE issue that was brought, up and presented to the EXTREME. CPA said he had more than 2.4 CHILDREN. He never said he planned on hauling boats or horses. oh wait, facts aren't important, just the one liner.

Platinum, while yes for that specific example (which still doesn't fit my case) a prius "may" fit the need, I think the overall point is that SUV's have many practical purposes, regardless the number of kids or the "yuppiness" of a person's mentality.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

I'd say a 27 footer should be able to pull a Prius pretty easily. Once you get up on plane it will probably ride the wake nicely. Just watch out on the tight turns, it can go airborn.

BooneRebel, you keep deliverying good sig material. LOL.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.
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No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

I guess you missed the part where he said CHILDREN. i can fit 3 children comfortably in the back of the prius and it accelerates fine.

again, my argument isn't that SUV's are no more useful than a PRIUS but that SUV's aren't as roomy compared to their exterior dimensions as other vehicles, Camry, Accord, CIvic to name just a few would fit 5 comfortably. a Station wagon would handle 5 people and luggage as well as or better than mid sized SUV's.

You must be joking.

I had a fairly large sedan (Lexus GS300) but it could not fit my family in it comfortably because I need to have 2 child seats inside. I have a BMW 325i also and I cannot put 2 childseats inside it because the car is stick and the childseat in the center prevents me from moving the seat back to a comfortable position. I don't like SUVs as much as the rest of you but there are people out there who have a need for these types of vehicles. Sure I could have gone the minivan way but all the minivans I saw were cheezy inside and had no AWD. They are extremely practical but to me and my wife, they are a huge step down from a luxury vehicle like a Lexus. SUVs were the only compromise available since I needed 5+ passenger seating and I wasn't willing to shell out $60K+ on a stupid Mercedes wagon.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

This should give you SUV bashers a big woodie:

Trucks Are Worst for Fuel Economy


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road are large pickup trucks, and the Dodge Ram is the worst of the bunch, a new study indicates. The Union of Concerned Scientists says that six of the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. are pickups, and that trucks account for 20 percent of the vehicles sold in the country. The Dodge Ram was singled out for fuel costs of $1,468 a year, or more than $13,000 over the lifetime of the truck, the group says. It based its findings on gas prices of $1.40 a gallon. The group suggests fuel economy in trucks could improve 30 percent through the use of advanced technology.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



**Sound of SUV bashers jump their paper ship over to bash pickups**

actually NOT, a higher percentage of Pickups are used commercially and for their intended purpose than SUV's. that's why people jump on SUV's not because they are inherently BAD vehicles, anyone who says so is a moron, but because they are missused.

NSF4, admit it, most of the yuppie women you see driving an SUV have NO CLUE as to how 4 wheel drive is SAFER and how it can be more dangerous, right? ALSO, the perceived safety factor actually makes them MORE DANGEROUS, yes??

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and not assume that the only reason they pruchased the vehicle is for 4x4 capabilities. Hell, when I price SUVs it's with 4x2 only, because of the price difference. I doubt I would ever be a 4x4.

 

[BooneRebel]

oh VERY good, I'm sooo impressed. oh wait, I never spoke about hauling a trailer at all did i??? i was just speaking on the ONE issue that was brought, up and presented to the EXTREME. CPA said he had more than 2.4 CHILDREN. He never said he planned on hauling boats or horses. oh wait, facts aren't important, just the one liner.

No, but you apparently get up in arms about a soccer mom driving an SUV to school without taking into account any other use of the vehicle. Unless it's -your- vehicle, then you really don't know what it's used for, do you? Not that the SUVs of today are really intended for off road use anyway. Their capabilities (excluding a select few) are tailored for on-road performance, not off-road duty. Running boards, plastic bumpers and trim, IFS, low ground clearance, etc., rule them out for serious 4-wheeling. They're designed for handling ice/snow, mud, rain etc. on the roads. Don't get bent out of shape because people choose to drive them that way.

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????

oh VERY good, I'm sooo impressed. oh wait, I never spoke about hauling a trailer at all did i??? i was just speaking on the ONE issue that was brought, up and presented to the EXTREME. CPA said he had more than 2.4 CHILDREN. He never said he planned on hauling boats or horses. oh wait, facts aren't important, just the one liner.

Ah.....did I hurt your widdle feelings????? You were pointing out how well the Prius compares to an SUV in several threads.......so, how's it compare above????? I've got more than 2.4 children too and happen to use my SUV a lot and there is nothing short of another pickup that would replace it...........and you know what????? I know a hell of a lot of other people whom use them just like I do!

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Some of you have to realize that there are families out there with more than your average 2.4 children (mine included) and we aren't going to fit into some damn prius.
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No one is suggesting that you purchase a Prius to handle your large family, but explain to me how a pathfinder or a forrunner will handle a family of 6 any better than a prius?? because that's what i've seen all my friends buy, a pathfinder or a forrunner because they need a bigger car?? duh. i guess they didn't bother to actually seat all the family members before buying. The only way to get more spacious than a minivan is to buy a relatively large SUV. yes??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Have you tried to fit 5 people in a Prius? 4 is a tight enough fit. How about acceleration with 5 people onboard a Prius? THERE IS NO ACCELERATION!!! Five fit comfortably in our Highlander and there's plenty of cargo space in the back for long trips or to haul whatever stuff we've picked up from the store.

I guess you missed the part where he said CHILDREN. i can fit 3 children comfortably in the back of the prius and it accelerates fine.

again, my argument isn't that SUV's are no more useful than a PRIUS but that SUV's aren't as roomy compared to their exterior dimensions as other vehicles, Camry, Accord, CIvic to name just a few would fit 5 comfortably. a Station wagon would handle 5 people and luggage as well as or better than mid sized SUV's.

You must be joking.

I had a fairly large sedan (Lexus GS300) but it could not fit my family in it comfortably because I need to have 2 child seats inside. I have a BMW 325i also and I cannot put 2 childseats inside it because the car is stick and the childseat in the center prevents me from moving the seat back to a comfortable position. I don't like SUVs as much as the rest of you but there are people out there who have a need for these types of vehicles. Sure I could have gone the minivan way but all the minivans I saw were cheezy inside and had no AWD. They are extremely practical but to me and my wife, they are a huge step down from a luxury vehicle like a Lexus. SUVs were the only compromise available since I needed 5+ passenger seating and I wasn't willing to shell out $60K+ on a stupid Mercedes wagon.

Get the best of both worlds.

 

[PlatinumGold]

I think the overall point is that SUV's have many practical purposes, regardless the number of kids or the "yuppiness" of a person's mentality.

and NO where have I ever disputed the practicality of the SUV, BUT if you want to argue the practicality of an SUV than you have to accept the reverse of that argument that 70% of people never take advantage of that practicality.

i don't see why you guys take this soo personally, i would think you would agree with most of it, because you aren't the majority of SUV drivers. you have a practical reason for buying one. the reason why most people don't bash PICKUPS is that most pickups are purchased by people who have practical uses for them.

it would seem to me, that those who do have practical uses for SUV's would rail against the 70% who abuse them. My next vehicle is going to be the Chevy avalanche, unfortunately i can't buy it yet, because my wife want's to buy a new house first (it's better to get car loan AFTER getting a mortgage). BUT i can see the dangers and misuses of SUV's. I can also understand why soo many people bash them. realize that it doesn't apply to you.