Good book: High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: NFS4
This should give you SUV bashers a big woodie:

Trucks Are Worst for Fuel Economy

The least fuel-efficient vehicles on the road are large pickup trucks, and the Dodge Ram is the worst of the bunch, a new study indicates. The Union of Concerned Scientists says that six of the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. are pickups, and that trucks account for 20 percent of the vehicles sold in the country. The Dodge Ram was singled out for fuel costs of $1,468 a year, or more than $13,000 over the lifetime of the truck, the group says. It based its findings on gas prices of $1.40 a gallon. The group suggests fuel economy in trucks could improve 30 percent through the use of advanced technology.

**Sound of SUV bashers jump their paper ship over to bash pickups**

Funny, my dad got a Dodge Ram to cut his gas bills.

8-10MPG empty and 3-4 towing with a 400SB equipped '78 GMC wasn't as good as 17MPG (w/ 500Lb steel camper shell w/ lumber rack and a few things in the back) and 14MPG towing.

YAY Diesels!

*looks for those morons wanting to ban diesels*

 

[dolph]

i'm glad most of the people defending suvs here own them and have legitimate need for them. that validates your posts regarding suvs considerably more than if you were just spouting off from your own opinion. but i think that no one here wants to eliminate suvs completely - they just want people not to buy them when a less dangerous, more feul efficient car would be better suited for them. unfortunately, i think most people who buy suvs don't bring them offroad, don't use them to haul anything, and don't need the storage or seating capacity for a professional football team with equipment, gatorade containers and goal posts. that's why people don't like suvs - they're unnecessary and the cons far outweigh the pros. fortunately, this is just a trend, and hopefully in a few years the idiots who buy suvs for no reason will decide golf carts are the new hot method of travel.

 

[PlatinumGold]

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

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Oooh...............I can't wait to hook my 27' boat or my 20' horse trailer up to that PRIUS..................................wonder how it'll do?????
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oh VERY good, I'm sooo impressed. oh wait, I never spoke about hauling a trailer at all did i??? i was just speaking on the ONE issue that was brought, up and presented to the EXTREME. CPA said he had more than 2.4 CHILDREN. He never said he planned on hauling boats or horses. oh wait, facts aren't important, just the one liner.
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Ah.....did I hurt your widdle feelings????? You were pointing out how well the Prius compares to an SUV in several threads.......so, how's it compare above????? I've got more than 2.4 children too and happen to use my SUV a lot and there is nothing short of another pickup that would replace it...........and you know what????? I know a hell of a lot of other people whom use them just like I do!

This is the ONLY thread where i've compared SUV's to Prius.

If you read my other POSTS you would have noticed that i'm not denying the practicalities of SUV's just that there are other factors.

and no, where did you get the impression my feelings were hurt??

 

[LostHiWay]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: PG

Originally posted by: Fausto1
An interesting statistic for you all:

Estimated oil usage in the US for 2002: 7.2 billion barrels

Amount of imported oil: 50%

Amout of oil imported from the middle east in 2001: ~ 1 billion barrels (964 million to be exact) or about 14%

We're using up 1.2 million barrels more per day thanks to the lower fuel-efficiency of SUVs. This means an extra 400 million barrels of oil per year....almost half of what we purchase annually from the middle east. I think our policy-making with regard to the middle east would be a lot less sticky than it is now if they weren't collectively holding that trump card. I don't think that the proposed action on Iraq is "all about oil" as some have said, but I think it is certainly a factor in the decision-making....as is our relative inactivity toward Saudi Arabia (who graced us with 15 of the 19 September 11 terrorists).

Point being, sure you all have the right to purchase a drive an SUV, but at what point is this right outweighed by the need to make some sacrifices in order to somewhat extricate ourselves from the mess in the middle east?

I don't understand your post at all.

Where do you get that we are using "using up 1.2 million barrels more per day thanks to the lower fuel-efficiency of SUVs"??
And the word "more" in that sentence.....more compared to what? Compared to if we all drove Metros? The statistics don't mean much unless we know the whole story.

If you replaced all the SUVs on the road with cars (and their better mileage), we would be using that much less oil per day. That was unfortunately the best estimate I could come up with since I was unable to find an exact figure for how much of the oil fueling the transportation industry is used by passenger vehicles. If someone could dig up that figure we could extrapolate a more accurate yearly oil savings figure based on number of cars vs SUVs on the road and their relative average mileage figures.

This sounds very similar to the WWII propaganda posters...just adjusted to today's problems.


"WHEN YOU DRIVE AN SUV, YOUR ACTUALLY DRIVING WITH SADDAM AND OSMA!!"

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

I think the overall point is that SUV's have many practical purposes, regardless the number of kids or the "yuppiness" of a person's mentality.

and NO where have I ever disputed the practicality of the SUV, BUT if you want to argue the practicality of an SUV than you have to accept the reverse of that argument that 70% of people never take advantage of that practicality.

i don't see why you guys take this soo personally, i would think you would agree with most of it, because you aren't the majority of SUV drivers. you have a practical reason for buying one. the reason why most people don't bash PICKUPS is that most pickups are purchased by people who have practical uses for them.

it would seem to me, that those who do have practical uses for SUV's would rail against the 70% who abuse them. My next vehicle is going to be the Chevy avalanche, unfortunately i can't buy it yet, because my wife want's to buy a new house first (it's better to get car loan AFTER getting a mortgage). BUT i can see the dangers and misuses of SUV's. I can also understand why soo many people bash them. realize that it doesn't apply to you.

Platinum, I don't take any of this personal.

And, actually, I don't own an SUV. My sister, though, owns a pickup and I can tell you she doesn't use it for it's intended purpose. But, so what.

BTW, Is an Avalanche an SUV or truck?

 

[Doggiedog]

CPA, I got me one of these.

17/23 MPG, huge interior, 7 passenger seating for $41K. Although I do admit the LX470 is nice, I never even considered it since it is so damn expensive.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Platinum, I don't take any of this personal.

And, actually, I don't own an SUV. My sister, though, owns a pickup and I can tell you she doesn't use it for it's intended purpose. But, so what.

BTW, Is an Avalanche an SUV or truck?

Me, i see it as a king cab pickup and that's how I intend to use it. but it also seats my family of five comfortably, so i'll probably sell my Minivan, when after i get the avalanche and get my wife a nice safe sedan to drive around during weekdays and when we go somewhere as a family, we can take the avalanche.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Platinum, I don't take any of this personal.

And, actually, I don't own an SUV. My sister, though, owns a pickup and I can tell you she doesn't use it for it's intended purpose. But, so what.

BTW, Is an Avalanche an SUV or truck?

Me, i see it as a king cab pickup and that's how I intend to use it. but it also seats my family of five comfortably, so i'll probably sell my Minivan, when after i get the avalanche and get my wife a nice safe sedan to drive around during weekdays and when we go somewhere as a family, we can take the avalanche.

Didn't you mean to say "...the nice, safe avalanche"?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: bulldawg

Originally posted by: Fausto1
An interesting statistic for you all:

Estimated oil usage in the US for 2002: 7.2 billion barrels

Amount of imported oil: 50%

Amout of oil imported from the middle east in 2001: ~ 1 billion barrels (964 million to be exact) or about 14%

We're using up 1.2 million barrels more per day thanks to the lower fuel-efficiency of SUVs. This means an extra 400 million barrels of oil per year....almost half of what we purchase annually from the middle east. I think our policy-making with regard to the middle east would be a lot less sticky than it is now if they weren't collectively holding that trump card. I don't think that the proposed action on Iraq is "all about oil" as some have said, but I think it is certainly a factor in the decision-making....as is our relative inactivity toward Saudi Arabia (who graced us with 15 of the 19 September 11 terrorists).

Point being, sure you all have the right to purchase a drive an SUV, but at what point is this right outweighed by the need to make some sacrifices in order to somewhat extricate ourselves from the mess in the middle east?

If the fvcking tree huggers wouldn't nut up everytime someone mentioned drilling in the U.S. maybe we could reduce that foreign dependence another way.

Leaving the whole environmental impact discussion for another thread; yes, we could indeed be free of middle east oil by drilling ANWAR. But only temporarily, and then we're back to square one: go back to the middle east for oil or conserve (in part via more efficient cars).

This is an old quote, but it's from the DOE head himself.

PALO ALTO, Calif. (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. Department of Energy pushed on Thursday for support of his controversial plan to allow expanded oil development in Alaska, saying the recent terror attacks had exposed the country's current energy policy as a national security concern.

``September 11 has clarified and intensified what needs to be done,'' Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham told a group at Stanford University. ``The issue of energy security is now clearly before us.''

His speech referred only briefly to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWAR), the oil-rich region of Alaska that the administration of President Bush has been trying to open up for oil exploration. But Abraham repeatedly cited a need for an increased supply of domestic oil.

``I am always amazed that the people who oppose every new source of domestic oil supply are the first ones to contact me to complain that the price of oil is tied to OPEC policy,'' he said.

``ANWAR will not eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, but it will help us.''

Although the amount of oil that stands to be produced from the wildlife refuge has been disputed, Abraham said average estimates were that it be enough to replace oil imports from the Persian Gulf region for 10 years or from Iraq for 50 years.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
CPA, I got me one of these.

17/23 MPG, huge interior, 7 passenger seating for $41K. Although I do admit the LX470 is nice, I never even considered it since it is so damn expensive.

do both the second and third row fold down? How easy is it to get to the third row?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Didn't you mean to say "...the nice, safe avalanche"?

OK, if that's how you want to say it, as long as I don't let that PERCEPTION lead me to complacency in the way that i DRIVE.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
CPA, I got me one of these.

17/23 MPG, huge interior, 7 passenger seating for $41K. Although I do admit the LX470 is nice, I never even considered it since it is so damn expensive.

do both the second and third row fold down? How easy is it to get to the third row?

Yes, that is the main reason we went for the MDX. The seats fold down completely flat and very easily too with no effort at all. Third row isn't difficult to get into. Pull a lever on the passenger side 2nd row seat, the seat slides forward and you hop in. Kinda cramped in the back but it really comes in handy when driving around my relatives.

Lots of room in the car too. Just this weekend I helped a buddy buy one of those long folding tables from Costco. It fit in no problem with the right side 2nd row seat folded.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
CPA, I got me one of these.

17/23 MPG, huge interior, 7 passenger seating for $41K. Although I do admit the LX470 is nice, I never even considered it since it is so damn expensive.

do both the second and third row fold down? How easy is it to get to the third row?

Yes, that is the main reason we went for the MDX. The seats fold down completely flat and very easily too with no effort at all. Third row isn't difficult to get into. Pull a lever on the passenger side 2nd row seat, the seat slides forward and you hop in. Kinda cramped in the back but it really comes in handy when driving around my relatives.

Lots of room in the car too. Just this weekend I helped a buddy buy one of those long folding tables from Costco. It fit in no problem with the right side 2nd row seat folded.

bah, no optional DVD entertainment center.

 

[Doggiedog]

bah, no optional DVD entertainment center.

The '03s do have a RES DVD entertainment center.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
bah, no optional DVD entertainment center.

The '03s do have a RES DVD entertainment center.

hmmmm, maybe I spoke too soon. Will have to check them out.

 

[MichaelD]

I love my 5,000-pound gas-guzzling Isuzu Trooper 4 x 4. Two inch lift, bigger tires on the way. I can drive thru most anything; rocks, sand, snow, rain, mud, Yugos, Tercels, Elantras, Miatas, Proteges', Galants, Mustangs, Camaros', Vettes'. I have a tiny problem w/the F350's though.

I can haul four adults (incuding myself...five adults in relative comfort) and enough gear (roof rack too) for a week's worth of camping. AND I can get from the road to the campsite thru two feet of mud. Do THAT in your Family Van.

I agree w/this: Minivans' have the cargo CARRYING capacity that SUV's do. I.E. I can fit a BIG BOX, (like a big TV) back there. You can't haul a 5,000 trailer w/a minivan though.

This arguement could also be applied to Family vans vs. pickup trucks.

Anyway, I really like my truck. Gas mileage sucks booty, but that's the price you pay. *shrugs*

 

[Zenmervolt]

When the day comes and I replace the old Honda, I've already decided that I'm going one of two routes. Either an older true sports car (pre-1990 911 if I can find one for a decent price) or a late-model SuperDuty 4x4 Ford pickup with the diesel engine and the "SuperCrew" cab with the long bed. Of course, this assumes I'll be replacing the Honda because I want to. If the Honda doesn't last me another 2-3 years I'm going to have to find another old Honda for cheap. No sense being practical unless I have to be. It's kind of nice to know that either way I go, I'll be pissing people off.

ZV

 

[Dragnov]

Vans cost near the same amount. Vans use up the same amount of gas. Vans are just as big.

If they want to endanger thier own life more with an SUV, let them. Oh, they are endangering yours also though? Oh right, like speeding on the freeway doesn't enedanger someone elses life. But no, that doesn't matter.
And those huge big rigs don't endanger your life either. Lets live in a shell where nothing

 

[SuperTool]

The only thing I don't like about SUV's is that they block my vision. Kinda like trucks and vans, but those usually stay in the slow lanes. SUV owners for some reason stay in the fast lanes, so I always have to pass them on the right to regain my visibility. I would never buy one, because of the whole minivan/suv soccermom stigma, and they are not as fun to drive as a sports sedan. I drive very rarely now, and I like to enjoy it when I do.

 

[Wolfsraider]

geez i bet you all would hate the fact i lived/drove a 25foot winabago everywhere
in the morning i drove it to get coffee at the local waffel house
then i would spend the day at the river(or park it at work if i had to)
back to town to visit
then more coffee
and in the evening i cruised town and parked in the parking lots where my friends all hung out
i cooked dinner and served the beer cold as we played cards after firing up the generator after we sobered up i drove home (free parking at the local dry cleaners as security and 7.00 hr to sleep)

christmas was a special treat i loaded her down with christmas lights 50 strings lol and set out traveling to different cities in the state

course i miss the old girl but hey vans and suvs ain't got nothing on a motorhome lol


oh yeah i got hit by a lady backing out of a parking space(i was parked in my space) in a dodge neon she ripped the hubcap off my passenger wheel but they towed her away(she was mad at the people at the phone company and floored it getting out of there lol)
it ripped her car at the back glass and knocked her rear end out(actually broke the springs lol) the tow truck guy couldn't stop laughing
he had to get a roll on to get her out of there lol oh and the hubcap still fit although it was dented a little.

i like them thar suv's too

 

[Doggiedog]

I only hate it when Winnebagos take up 2 1/2 parallel parking spaces.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
geez i bet you all would hate the fact i lived/drove a 25foot winabago everywhere
in the morning i drove it to get coffee at the local waffel house
then i would spend the day at the river(or park it at work if i had to)
back to town to visit
then more coffee
and in the evening i cruised town and parked in the parking lots where my friends all hung out
i cooked dinner and served the beer cold as we played cards after firing up the generator after we sobered up i drove home (free parking at the local dry cleaners as security and 7.00 hr to sleep)...

Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about!

 

[Ultima]

SUV's on average have quite higher deathrates than cars except for the very biggest ones. IF you want to be safe, get an Accord or an Expedition. An Explorer isn't much more safe than a Kia anything, when it comes to deaths per mile. Want statistics? Search off-topic for death rates.

 

[Chubs]

Originally posted by: PG

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Personally, I don't care what kind of vehicle a person decides to drive. My concern is the illusion that a four wheel drive vehicle with high ground clearance provides a safer driving experience. The problem seems to be driver error when there is a panic stop or loss of control. These vehicles have a high center of gravity and the wider tires can cause a driver to oversteer in an emergency situation. Rollover accidents are very common in SUV statistics.

Come on, you guys can't have it both ways. You say that SUV's are dangerous to cars....doesn't that imply that a nice big SUV is safer? So which is it?

It could mean that SUVs are less safe in an emergency situation *and* cause more damage to other vehicles when the accident occurs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Ju1cyJ]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe
I'll buy what I want, pay for what I want to buy, and drive what I like to drive

I would just like to point out that you are basically saying the same thing as people defending pot smoking.

For the record, in my book, pot good, SUV's bad.