Good guy with a gun stops bad guy with...oops nm we shot the good guy!

[UNCjigga]

Man, this is why the answer to gun violence should never be "moar guns!"

Also, PSA: If you live in an open-carry state and you're black, don't open carry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/us/alabama-mall-shooting.html

Black Man Killed by Officer in Alabama Mall Shooting Was Not the Gunman, Police Now Say

The police in Alabama said an officer fatally shot a 21-year-old black man on Thursday night who they said shot at least one person at a mall near Birmingham, turning a Thanksgiving holiday shopping scene into chaos.

But on Friday the police said evidence suggests that the man actually was not the gunman and that the true gunman remained at large.

The Hoover Police Department said on Twitter that the man who was killed, Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr., “may have been involved in some aspect” of an altercation at the mall, the Riverchase Galleria in Hoover, Ala., that preceded the shooting.

But, they said, he “likely did not fire the rounds” that struck an 18-year-old man as they had originally indicated. Another victim, a 12-year-old girl, was an “innocent bystander,” the police said. Both were hospitalized but their conditions on Saturday were unavailable.

“We regret that our initial media release was not totally accurate, but new evidence indicates that it was not,” the police said, adding that the conclusion was based on interviews with witnesses and “critical evidentiary items.”

 

[Jaskalas]

“encountered a suspect brandishing a pistol and shot him.”​

We're lacking details as to how exactly police encountered this man, and how both parties responded to each other.

Though I do suspect they saw a man holding a gun and decided to confront him. In the chaos I doubt he responded immediately in the specific manner they expected. So they ended up shooting / killing him. That's pretty much police 101 in America. See gun, kill holder of gun. Unless by some miracle they can anticipate, understand, and follow the police commands with zero time to "get it right". And that's if the police don't have itchy trigger fingers and/or get spooked by literally anything else.

The presence of guns makes any encounter a "do or die" moment of fear. Whether it is or not, that's how we all are forced to react due to the reality of our armed population. As Americans we fear and we kill as a consequence of that fear. That won't stop happening until we get most the guns off our streets.

 

[Indus]

Guns matter! Lives of people, no so much...

 

[1sikbITCH]

So in the bar shooting in California the first officer through the door was killed immediately upon entrance. I am not going to ask a cop to go through the door and start playing 20 questions with the guy holding the gun. Boom. Next.

There are plenty of times when the cops pull someone over and execute them but this seems to have been a live shooter scene or whatever. If you are stupid enough not to drop your weapon the instant you hear the command it's like running across a busy highway. Can't blame the cars when you die.

 

[Jaskalas]

(downvote) Show all

What's the matter @greatnoob , you don't want to hear how the gun ownership rate in America makes us less safe? The evidence speaks for itself, in the American lives lost every single day.

 

[sandorski]

So in the bar shooting in California the first officer through the door was killed immediately upon entrance. I am not going to ask a cop to go through the door and start playing 20 questions with the guy holding the gun. Boom. Next.

There are plenty of times when the cops pull someone over and execute them but this seems to have been a live shooter scene or whatever. If you are stupid enough not to drop your weapon the instant you hear the command it's like running across a busy highway. Can't blame the cars when you die.

This is why Carrying as a Civilian is a bad choice.

 

[1sikbITCH]

I appreciate folks want to have guns. However there is a saying, "live by the sword, die by the sword". Dude got to go out in a blaze of glory, riding off into the sunset. A monument to the 2nd Amendment. Hope he appreciates it.

 

[greatnoob]

What's the matter @greatnoob , you don't want to hear how the gun ownership rate in America makes us less safe? The evidence speaks for itself, in the American lives lost every single day.

Downvoting for your transparent concern trolling and your usual 'bothsides' BS. Don't be dense and disingenuous, buddy.

 

[sactoking]

I wonder what the man killed in this instance and the security guard killed a week or two back have in common. There's got to be something there, I just can't put my finger on it. Something that connects these dead "good guys with a gun" with most of the other police shootings in the news...

 

[Lanyap]

I used to live a mile from the Riverchase Galleria. Don’t remember any shootings taking place there so I guess things got worse in that area since I left. Hoover PD was above board so I’ll be waiting to see how this plays out.

 

[dank69]

They killed a black man. That's close enough. Case closed.

 

[kage69]

Sad stuff.

You don't open carry, no matter what color you are! Having said that, sounds like another judgment error by the police. A black guy with a gun is obviously immediately a suspect, regardless of where the gun was pointing I'll wager. I think it's safe to assume if he had been white the odds of survival would have been better, look at all the armed white people who are taken into custody without getting shot.

One more time for all the wanna be sheepdogs: ENOUGH WITH OPEN CARRY. And in the unfortunate event of needed CCW use, you either immediately re-holster or ditch the weapon completely. You don't know if experienced professionals are responding, or if it will be amateur hour with mostly adrenaline-saturated scared newbies, the kind that confuse the weight/feel of a loaded Glock with a service Taser. Oh hell, they could be racist cops with looser ROE for non-whites, you never know.

 

[Indus]

Sometimes a photo is worth a 1000 words..

 

[CZroe]

The Hoover Police Department said on Twitter that the man who was killed, Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr., “may have been involved in some aspect” of an altercation at the mall, the Riverchase Galleria in Hoover, Ala., that preceded the shooting.

But, they said, he “likely did not fire the rounds” that struck an 18-year-old man as they had originally indicated. Another victim, a 12-year-old girl, was an “innocent bystander,” the police said. Both were hospitalized but their conditions on Saturday were unavailable.

While I hope the facts reveal Bradford was a good guy so that our collective outrage is justified, the implication here is that the armed men were having an altercation (gunfight?) and that the other one who hit an 18-year-old man and an innocent bystander remains at large. If it was a “good guy with a gun” scenario, that certainly is not what this quote implies. By specifying that the 12-year-old was an innocent bystander, it implies that the 18-year-old man likely wasn’t.

Do you have anything to support the “good guy with a gun” thread title or was that intentionally misleading?

 

[Lanyap]

Hoover cops have body cams and it was in an upscale indoor mall so they should have some type of security video of the incident. Conflicting stories are coming out.

Bradford, who was fleeing "while brandishing a handgun," was spotted by two uniformed police officers, one of whom drew a weapon and fired on him, authorities said. Bradford was pronounced dead at the scene.
On Friday, Rector said in a statement, "New evidence now suggests that while Mr. Bradford may have been involved in some aspect of the altercation, he likely did not fire the rounds that injured the 18-year-old victim."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-injured-alabama-mall-shooting/story?id=59371357

Benjamin Crump, Jr., the nationally known Florida-based attorney representing the family, also asserts that, according to witnesses, Bradford was trying to guide people away from the area where the initial shooting occurred, that his gun was tucked in his waistband, and that as Bradford lay dying on the Galleria mall floor, police did not allow a nurse who was nearby to attend to him.

https://www.al.com/news/2018/11/pol...t-says-father-of-galleria-police-killing.html

 

[Lanyap]

Sad stuff.

You don't open carry, no matter what color you are! Having said that, sounds like another judgment error by the police. A black guy with a gun is obviously immediately a suspect, regardless of where the gun was pointing I'll wager. I think it's safe to assume if he had been white the odds of survival would have been better, look at all the armed white people who are taken into custody without getting shot.

One more time for all the wanna be sheepdogs: ENOUGH WITH OPEN CARRY. And in the unfortunate event of needed CCW use, you either immediately re-holster or ditch the weapon completely. You don't know if experienced professionals are responding, or if it will be amateur hour with mostly adrenaline-saturated scared newbies, the kind that confuse the weight/feel of a loaded Glock with a service Taser. Oh hell, they could be racist cops with looser ROE for non-whites, you never know.

My wife and I both had CCW permits when we lived in Hoover, Alabama although we never felt the need to carry. To easy to get shot like this. Permits are easy to get, they just do an extensive background check but don't make you certify if you can use a gun or make you attend a training course. Florida on the other hand, makes you get certified for use.

 

[killster1]

My wife and I both had CCW permits when we lived in Hoover, Alabama although we never felt the need to carry. To easy to get shot like this. Permits are easy to get, they just do an extensive background check but don't make you certify if you can use a gun or make you attend a training course. Florida on the other hand, makes you get certified for use.

So you dont carry because if you take it out during a mass shooting then police might mistakenly shoot you? So when badbuy pulls his gun to shoot you you just let him because "hey the police might shoot me if i try and stop him?"

I enjoy a glock in my waistband and will use it to protect loved ones and possibly strangers but not as likely.

 

[Lanyap]

So you dont carry because if you take it out during a mass shooting then police might mistakenly shoot you? So when badbuy pulls his gun to shoot you you just let him because "hey the police might shoot me if i try and stop him?"

I enjoy a glock in my waistband and will use it to protect loved ones and possibly strangers but not as likely.

I've never felt threatened enough in an environment to have to carry. I would carry if I felt the need and I would use it to protect myself, loved ones and innocents if necessary.

 

[killster1]

I've never felt threatened enough in an environment to have to carry. I would carry if I felt the need and I would use it to protect myself, loved ones and innocents if necessary.

Some kinda fortune teller? how do you know what situation you are in ahead of time? I guess if you dont leave the house you are fairly safe. avoiding night and busy areas also will help but who is to know some psycho cuts you off and pulls a gun because they have some delusion.

 

[zerocool84]

Some kinda fortune teller? how do you know what situation you are in ahead of time? I guess if you dont leave the house you are fairly safe. avoiding night and busy areas also will help but who is to know some psycho cuts you off and pulls a gun because they have some delusion.

Yup because that's definitely an everyday scenario. I mean, it's not like statistics have shown that less gun equals less people dying from guns whether intentional and accidental.........Right? Right?

I mean, more guns keep everyone safe, that's what gun advocates keep saying.

 

[Jaskalas]

“encountered a suspect brandishing a pistol and shot him.”
We're lacking details as to how exactly police encountered this man, and how both parties responded to each other.

Downvoting for your transparent concern trolling and your usual 'bothsides' BS. Don't be dense and disingenuous, buddy.

WTF are you going on about?

I call for the facts of the case before I judge it.
I try to illustrate just how dangerous and F'ed the situation is.
I call for gun control to stop this from continuing to be our reality.

Perhaps you could evaluate the substance of your complaint.

 

[HomerJS]

So you dont carry because if you take it out during a mass shooting then police might mistakenly shoot you? So when badbuy pulls his gun to shoot you you just let him because "hey the police might shoot me if i try and stop him?"

I enjoy a glock in my waistband and will use it to protect loved ones and possibly strangers but not as likely.

Are you white? Different rules.

 

[Sunburn74]

Some kinda fortune teller? how do you know what situation you are in ahead of time? I guess if you dont leave the house you are fairly safe. avoiding night and busy areas also will help but who is to know some psycho cuts you off and pulls a gun because they have some delusion.

You may also one day find your wife in bed with your brother or face to face with a komodo dragon or some other escaped animal from the zoo whilst taking out the trash but these are sufficiently rare events that honestly putting energy into screening and protecting yourself from this event will probably lead to more harm than good. It's crazy to me that in this country the people who have the least to actually protect tend to be the most adamant about self protection. How do wealthy guys in wealthy neighborhoods who own BMWs and Mercedes and etc protect families at night? The keep a light on and lock the front door. That's it. How does the guy who lives in a trailer in rural Missouri protect his garbage can of cat food (he doesn't own a cat btw)? With 4 handguns and an AR15.

 

[Lanyap]

Some kinda fortune teller? how do you know what situation you are in ahead of time? I guess if you dont leave the house you are fairly safe. avoiding night and busy areas also will help but who is to know some psycho cuts you off and pulls a gun because they have some delusion.

I don’t live my life in fear that a gun toting boogie man is around every corner. That’s saying a lot since I now live in SYG Florida. I am carefully aware of my environment and can take defensive measures other than firearms to protect myself and love ones. If I feel I need to carry I will.

 

[killster1]

You may also one day find your wife in bed with your brother or face to face with a komodo dragon or some other escaped animal from the zoo whilst taking out the trash but these are sufficiently rare events that honestly putting energy into screening and protecting yourself from this event will probably lead to more harm than good. It's crazy to me that in this country the people who have the least to actually protect tend to be the most adamant about self protection. How do wealthy guys in wealthy neighborhoods who own BMWs and Mercedes and etc protect families at night? The keep a light on and lock the front door. That's it. How does the guy who lives in a trailer in rural Missouri protect his garbage can of cat food (he doesn't own a cat btw)? With 4 handguns and an AR15.

I have no brother and the nearest zoo might be 90 miles?

Actually own a BMW and dont understand why you think anyone is safe with a light on and locked door? You realize criminals do indeed travel and often break into nice houses and not trailers? Rich, poor, middle class everyone owns guns silly to try and make it sound as if only lower class folks would have them.

If you do not feel the need to carry it on you, a 9mm with the sparetire would be handy. Breakdown at night two flat tires, etc or is that impossible too?