Good idea/bad idea - buying a car servicing manual, and trying my hand at some repairs

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
My car's been making some odd noises, probably due to belts, based on some online research.

It makes a slight "ticking" noise when the engine's running, and the speed increases with the RPMs.

And, I get a horrible squealing noise when I turn my steering wheel when the car's freshly started. This only started after I came to Erie - it's really humid as hell here, and I hear a lot of cars squealing like this.
My belts are only a few months old (assuming the mechanic was honest and actually replaced them), but I read that they might not be tight enough, or maybe they're glazed, or maybe my power steering fluid is low.

But anyway, the service manual - my uncle went this route after being screwed over repeatedly by mechanics. Now he does almost all of the work himself, and he says he bought a service manual.

I found somewhere online for service manuals, but it's a digital copy only. I'd like something printed, mainly because I don't feel like carting a PC outside so that I can work on my car.
I'm also new to the area, so I don't know which places are good and which ones would try to sell me "blinker fluid."

So, question: Where might I be able to buy a print version of a service manual for my car?
'97 Hyundai Elantra GLS Sedan


I haven't done much with cars - I never tried to learn, because engines are dirty, and I never liked getting dirty. I never even liked playing in mud puddles as a kid. But I think I can forgo that, and try to at least learn the basics. I'm good at disassembling things and putting them back together correctly. A car engine doesn't strike me as being all that bad. Just dirty.


Update: My supervisor knows a little bit about cars, or at least he says he does and he had a look at the old rustbucket today. He pointed out a few things. But here's what I've got:
Pics folder
The engine, with each belt labeled, this includes a previously unseen belt, labeled #3.

Belt 1 goes to the alternator. As you can see in this fuzzy picture, all the printing is still well intact on it; it's quite new, as is belt #2. Visible above the alternator is a rusted bolt, which I turned to try to tighten the alternator's belt. This was what made the squealing a bit worse, oddly enough.
Belt 3 is one I didn't see before. It looks quite glazed, at least on the visible part, and my supervisor said it looks like it's getting a bit of dry rot. Apparently when I tell the mechanic, "The belts are old, replace them all," I need to use a more encompassing word. I wish I had the receipt so I could see what I was charged for. This belt may not be so new though.
Finally, he pointed out that my shocks don't look like they're in such great shape. Is that cracking just cosmetic damage, or are my shocks about to die?

And then there's that oil around the engine itself. What's up with that?

I really need this thing to give me two more years of service. After that, I hope to finally have a net positive income - with tuition and rent bills right now, my income is net negative, by a few thousand a year.
If this car needs repairs, I'm looking at another part time job to pay for it, but I guess if that's what it takes....
"The things you own end up owning you."

So then, oh great car folk, how long does my car have to live?
I want to get a hitch installed too, so I might just wind up making out a list of everything that needs doing to this hunk of junk, and take it back to the place I bought it from. I know the guy, and trust him not to rip me off. (He's not the mechanic I took the car to for the belt replacements.)


Update #2, Nov 19th: Got the car worked on. Got two new front tires (they were getting close to being smooth), and they checked the belts. They said that the tension wasn't set nearly tight enough. What exactly they tensioned, I don't know, but the car was quiet during the trip home. Let's see how long it holds up.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Go to any auto parts store, they usually have a section for service manuals. They'll have Hayne's or Chilton, probably $15-20 for a manual. The factory service manual may be more detailed and in general better (available at the dealership), but that usually costs much more (~$50), and the $15-20 is fine for basic jobs.

It's a good way to learn...I think that's how most people get started. Just be careful, work slow, and keep track of what goes where when you're disassembling. Draw a diagram if you have to.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
Good idea, but ... the Hayne's manua.s rarely apply to your car. I have one for my car (1997 Lincoln Town Car) and the Haynes book for the car covers RWD Lincolns back to 79 ot something, so all the instructions are usually for older cars than mine.

I also have the ford service manual and it's pretty good, but the best resource I've found is a website dedicated to Lincolns, with Tech articles complete with photos, advice, etc. Very good resource (lincolnsonline.com).

Just today I replaced some nylon bushings in my driver side window motor, which had stopped working. Basically zero cost, but without lincolnsonline's help I would have not gotten the motor out as easily as I did.

Other than swapping the alternatore (which is very easy on the Ford 4.6 V8 RWD layout) this is the first time I've dug into the car. Working on doors is a huge PITA, but I muddled my way through it.

You'll never learn if you don't start somewhere, I say either get a dealer service manual or find a website dedicated to your make, and then have at it.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Yeah, I've had the doors apart already for another issue - the steel cable for the power window got frayed and wound up in the side of a pulley - and the pulley is of course nylon, not steel, so it broke, too. Wound up replacing the entire motor assembly.
And for what it's worth, I installed a stereo myself.


Thanks for the tips, I'll see what I can find in the way of a manual.
 

shocksyde

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2001
5,539
0
0
You can do it, man. And the reward of working on your own car is soooooo sweet!
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Hyundai Factory Service Manual

You might not like the price though.

I used to buy Factory Manuals all the time in the days they wanted $40 for them. Not anymore when they want $150.

Now I buy off eBay when I can get a decent price.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: boomerang
Hyundai Factory Service Manual

You might not like the price though.

I used to buy Factory Manuals all the time in the days they wanted $40 for them. Not anymore when they want $150.

Now I buy off eBay when I can get a decent price.
Yeah, that's the kind of price my uncle said he found. Kind of a deterrent from doing your own car work, it seems.

I guess I'll keep an eye out on eBay, or maybe Amazon.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
44
91
I paid 110 for my service manual, its 4 inches thick! Those hayne's/chilton manual are nothing compared to service manual from the manufacturer, you basically get what you pay for.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: boomerang
Hyundai Factory Service Manual

You might not like the price though.

I used to buy Factory Manuals all the time in the days they wanted $40 for them. Not anymore when they want $150.

Now I buy off eBay when I can get a decent price.
Yeah, that's the kind of price my uncle said he found. Kind of a deterrent from doing your own car work, it seems.

I guess I'll keep an eye out on eBay, or maybe Amazon.

Ebay has a few listed. Check out half.com, as well.

I paid $20 for mine off of Ebay.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Did you check the power steering fluid level??
- Power steering fluid level - fine.
- Automatic transmission fluid - quite full
- Engine oil - surprisingly very low. I just did an oil change, probably less than 1000 miles ago. The car's not leaving any oily spots anywhere either. I'll definitely get that refilled today.
- Belts - I could only see two belts, one on the alternator, and another nearby. Both still look quite new.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
It could be "morning sickness", a condition where the seals on the rack are shot. Symptoms
also include a silver film on top of the PS fluid and hard steering for the first few minutes
until the worn seals expand and seal better. Might want to get a flashlight and see if you've
got an oil leak that is migrating to the belt, causing slippage. Good luck..
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
The power steering fluid looks like a nice red color. Steering is also not difficult at all, at least not for me. The car complains about it in the form of that squealing, but once it warms up, it's fine. Oddly enough, it only does it after it's sat in the parking lot at the college. When I start it up in the morning, it hardly makes a sound. But after it's sat all day at campus, THEN it complains. It's not like I'm going from the Sahara to the Arctic either, it's only a few miles away, so there's not going to be any major climate change.

I'll have a look at the belts again. I did feel around though to see if they were super smooth or anything like that. My fingers didn't even get dirty from touching their contact side, and definitely not oily.

I'll have a look at it again sometime this week, maybe Friday or the weekend. But it's definitely getting more oil, today.


Edit: I stopped at Kmart before class and added another quart of oil. I'll check it later tonight to see if it needs the second quart I bought.

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
It could be "morning sickness", a condition where the seals on the rack are shot. Symptoms
also include a silver film on top of the PS fluid and hard steering for the first few minutes
until the worn seals expand and seal better. Might want to get a flashlight and see if you've
got an oil leak that is migrating to the belt, causing slippage. Good luck..
Whereabouts would this seal be, and how much does it cost to replace? Working on a car might not be easy - I don't have a garage, and I don't know how I'd go about lifting it off the ground. Plus, with winter on the way, Erie is just about perpetually coated in snow.
 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
0
Great idea to have it around. Even if you decide a given job is over your head, you'll have a much better understanding of what the job is and be much less likely to be taken advantage of. On the jobs you can do yourself, you'll save lots of money. I bet you could do the belts yourself with no problems, especially if you were able to get the doors off and replace the stereo by yourself. Be warned that those Haynes/Chilton's style manuals skip a lot of stuff, though, like "Take off *** assembly." Ok, HOW do I take it off? You still have to solve a lot of problems on your own.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
I'm still not sure of plopping down the money for a manual. If I do get a manual, I'd want the most detailed one available. I'm in the midst of plotting out my course schedule for the next few semesters, and money might be an issue, though ultimately it might simply come down to figuring out how much of which loans I'm going to need.

When I was originally planning out my college money, my thinking was, "Ok, college for fall, then work the summer, then back to class in the spring."
It all was great, make plenty of money to get me through spring.
Some time later, it occurs to me that summer comes after spring. Hurray for momentary stupidity.


At any rate, I've got two funny noises in the car - that squealing, and the "ticking/rasping" sort of sound. Maybe this weekend I can get an audio sampling. I'm not sure where the ticking/rasping sound is coming from, either. It seems like it's coming from the engine itself, but that could be deceptive, given the possibility for numerous sonic reflections off of various components under the hood. Hopefully it's nothing expensive or serious.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
i paid for a chiltons for my maxima $10 off someone locally. I have the factory service manual on CD.

I also have the orginally factory service manual for FWD SR20DE from nissan for my 200sx which was supposely for $100ish but it came with the car. Both types has its points and disadvantages, mainly referals to nissan only tools from the FSM
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: T2urtle
i paid for a chiltons for my maxima $10 off someone locally. I have the factory service manual on CD.

I also have the orginally factory service manual for FWD SR20DE from nissan for my 200sx which was supposely for $100ish but it came with the car. Both types has its points and disadvantages, mainly referals to nissan only tools from the FSM
Wow, from the FSM? Doesn't he just use his noodly appendage to repair your car?



Well, the noises all stopped. For now. What changed? 1 Qt of oil, and 100% humidity (it's raining), up from the usual 70-80%. I'll add another quart tomorrow sometime. It was really really low. I'm kind of surprised that the oil light wasn't on.
I don't know where it went, but it's certainly not dripping out the bottom. I don't remember though how many I added when I changed the oil. Not enough, it would seem.
 

Doodoo

Golden Member
Feb 14, 2000
1,423
0
76
Maybe a serpentine belt? While its squeeling spray a little bit of belt dressing on it...if it goes away its the belt.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
The ticking you were hearing is probably a valve lifter crying it's heart out.
Always check your stick after a change, make sure it's where it needs to be.
 

franksta

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2001
1,967
6
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7


I'm kind of surprised that the oil light wasn't on.


It's a low pressure indicator which might not be caused by a low oil level. If you're going to keep your car for any real length of time I'd drop the money on the factory service manual. If it's just a beater car to get you to your Porsche then the Haynes from AutoZone will suffice.
 

urname7698

Senior member
Feb 2, 2004
479
0
0
Hyundai offers service manuals online for free.. I have the print factory one for my car but the online version is identical:
http://www.hmaservice.com/

Personally the online one is easier as I can just print out a page or two and not worry about getting it all dirty...
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: BUTCH1
The ticking you were hearing is probably a valve lifter crying it's heart out.
Always check your stick after a change, make sure it's where it needs to be.
I guess so. (Whatever a valve lifter is.)
After 1 qt of oil, that ticking sound went away. I added another quart then afterwards.


The squealing continues though. I'll see if I can get some of that belt dressing stuff this weekend.
I noticed that it only squeals if the engine is spinning somewhere below 1200rpms. Once it hits that, no squeal.

It must be something with the humidity at least aggravating the problem - I hear squealing belts in a lot of vehicles here, way more than back home. I'm several miles from Lake Erie, so that keeps it grossly humid here all the time.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Well that's good news. As far as the squealing, check your belt(s), look for cracks or
other signs of wear. A squealing belt is a slipping belt, period. Humidity is not the
concern here, I live 2 miles from the ocean (FL), never had an issue with humidity(which
hovers at around 85% in the summer). Keep a close eye on that oil level now that you've
got it full...
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
As I mentioned, the belts are practically new, only a few months old. Those that I could see show absolutely no signs of wear. I don't know why they'd be going bad already, unless that belt dressing stuff is all that they need. Maybe I can get some on the way home from classes today.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Check closely and see if any oil is getting on the belts or pully's, a flashlight might
help. Reach down and rub your fingers on the belts, see if you can feel any oil. Don't
worry about getting dirty, there is a hand cleaner called "goop" which will clean off
any dirt or grease and it's like $2 a can. While working on one's car can be tedious
you will get a great deal of satisfaction from knowing you saved a lot of $$ by doing
it yourself!!.
 
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