Good to see Obama Plans to follow Bush Lead On Nukes

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
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Link

Bush orders 'significant reduction' in U.S. nuclear weapons


Well, I guess this is a good thing, but I do have some questions.

~As we know from recent history,,,talk is cheap. Did we ever have the stockpiles that we claimed that we did during the cold war?

~How do we know the numbers are actually reduced, given we don't know actual numbers in existing stockpiles?


~Article mentions that we have already met goals set for 2012, and there are more cuts to be made. Do you believe this happened, and happened so quickly?

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WASHINGTON: President George W. Bush has approved "a significant reduction" in the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile, cutting it to less than one-quarter its size at the end of the Cold War, the White House said Tuesday.

At the same time, the Energy Department announced plans to consolidate the nuclear weapons complex that maintains warheads and dismantle those no longer needed, saying the current facilities need to be made more efficient and more easily secured and that the larger complex is no longer needed.

"We are reducing our nuclear weapons stockpile to the lowest level consistent with America's national security and our commitments to friends and allies," White House press secretary Dana Perino said. "A credible deterrent remains an essential part of U.S. national security, and nuclear forces remain key to meeting emerging security challenges."

The government will not provide any numbers on the overall size of the nuclear stockpile, but there are believed to be nearly 6,000 warheads that either are deployed or in reserve.

Separately, under terms of a 2002 arms control treaty with Russia, the U.S. is committed to reducing the number of deployed warheads to between 1,700 and 2,200 by 2012.

Three years ago, Bush said he wanted the overall stockpile reduced to half by 2012, but officials said that goal now has been reached so further reductions are being made, resulting in the new targets for 2012.

The Energy Department has been examining ways to consolidate the complex of weapons stockpile-related facilities at eight major locations across the country. They include federal research laboratories and other sites involved in nuclear stockpile stewardship and warhead dismantlement.

"Today's nuclear weapons complex needs to move from the outdated Cold War complex into one that is smaller, safer, more secure and less expensive," said Thomas D'Agostino, administrator of the National Nuclear Security Administration, which oversees nuclear warhead programs within the department.

Under the consolidation proposal, which must still go through formal environmental reviews, special nuclear material used in weapons will be moved to five sites by the end of 2012 and the overall work force will be reduced by 20 to 30 percent.

While none of the eight major facilities will be closed, about 600 buildings or structures will be closed or shifted to non-weapons activities and two testing facilities supporting weapons labs will be closed.

While the consolidation reflects the reduction in the size of the warhead stockpile, it also has been prompted by growing concern over the ability to provide adequate security over the larger complex as security demands have increased sharply since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Some of those security demands have been viewed as far too expensive under the current spread of nuclear materials ? plutonium and highly enriched weapons-grade uranium ? within the complex.

Meanwhile, the administration faced a setback in its hopes of developing a new, more reliable and robust warhead that would eventually replace the existing, aging warheads.

The broad omnibus spending bill expected to be approved by Congress eliminated money for the Reliable Replacement Warhead for the current fiscal year. The administration had asked for $88 million (?61.04 million) for design and preliminary work on the proposed warhead.

"This (warhead) would have sent the wrong signal around the world encouraging the very proliferation we are trying to prevent," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democratic critic of the new warhead program said.

The Energy Department had argued the new warhead would easier to maintain than the current aging warheads without the need for actual nuclear testing.


 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Probably just killing the crap ones that could hardly hit Canada and keeping the nice ones
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?

Just one big ol' bomb.. and we'll settle all our foreign disputes with it. It will be calibrated to take out exactly everything except the USA, its bases, and its territory. USA! USA! USA! (homer voice)

 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?
I honestly don't believe that they could get much larger than the MIRV's we built during the height of the Cold War... i mean, those things are REDONKULOUS!

"Country-killers"...
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I'll feel safer when we have a "significant reduction" of Dick and Bush in the White House.
 

SecPro

Member
Jul 17, 2007
147
0
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?

Look up a company called USEC. That will give you some idea about what's happening to all the retired warheads from all sources.

As far as verification is concerned almost all of our treaties/agreements with Russia include a verification section. It includes overflights of SSBN bases and inspections of facilites, launchers, warehouses, etc. Some are scheduled inspectons and some are no notice (24 hours).
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
all the fissable material is stockpiled , in case we need it later and to keep it away from others
we still have enough active nukes to wipe out the planet :thumbsup:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I never quite got the nuclear stockpile reduction thing. I mean, if we could find a way to get rid of ALL of them, or MOST of them (and get everyone else to do the same), that would be worth celebrating. But at a certain point, you have so many that the actual number doesn't really mean a lot. 25% of enough weapons to destroy everyone on Earth several times over is still enough to destroy everyone on Earth...you just won't get nuked quite as many times. Call me crazy, but that seems more symbolic than real.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Fewer nukes = more money for wars with Iraq - and Iran or other places if needed. If the policy is based on that, the spin is then to say something else about the desire for less nuclear threat etc.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.

For what? Invasion?

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.

For what? Invasion?

Who's going to invade us? Those Canadians are looking pretty shifty, I admit, but I think we can take them.

Honestly, sometimes I think the reason conservatives act so weird now is because you guys really MISS the Cold War. You've taken paranoia and xenophobia to such an art form that the very idea of being able to get along with other countries makes you uncomfortable. I think secretly you guys are GLAD 9/11 happened. Not because of all the deaths, of course, but because now there is a great new enemy to hate and fear and all that stuff you miss so much from the bad old days.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.

For what? Invasion?

Who's going to invade us? Those Canadians are looking pretty shifty, I admit, but I think we can take them.

Honestly, sometimes I think the reason conservatives act so weird now is because you guys really MISS the Cold War. You've taken paranoia and xenophobia to such an art form that the very idea of being able to get along with other countries makes you uncomfortable. I think secretly you guys are GLAD 9/11 happened. Not because of all the deaths, of course, but because now there is a great new enemy to hate and fear and all that stuff you miss so much from the bad old days.

A world where the US has 0 nukes and everyone else has theirs isn't a world I'd like to live in. If you had a molecule of reason in your brain you'd feel the same.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.

For what? Invasion?

Who's going to invade us? Those Canadians are looking pretty shifty, I admit, but I think we can take them.

Honestly, sometimes I think the reason conservatives act so weird now is because you guys really MISS the Cold War. You've taken paranoia and xenophobia to such an art form that the very idea of being able to get along with other countries makes you uncomfortable. I think secretly you guys are GLAD 9/11 happened. Not because of all the deaths, of course, but because now there is a great new enemy to hate and fear and all that stuff you miss so much from the bad old days.

A world where the US has 0 nukes and everyone else has theirs isn't a world I'd like to live in. If you had a molecule of reason in your brain you'd feel the same.
QFT!

I can't stand it when people advocate trying to shove the nuclear cat back into the bag...
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is excellent news. I know it's not fashionable to say anything positive about anything Professor Dubbya does, but this makes me happy. Now you just need to get rid of the remaining 6,000 warheads and we'll be set.

For what? Invasion?

Who's going to invade us? Those Canadians are looking pretty shifty, I admit, but I think we can take them.

Honestly, sometimes I think the reason conservatives act so weird now is because you guys really MISS the Cold War. You've taken paranoia and xenophobia to such an art form that the very idea of being able to get along with other countries makes you uncomfortable. I think secretly you guys are GLAD 9/11 happened. Not because of all the deaths, of course, but because now there is a great new enemy to hate and fear and all that stuff you miss so much from the bad old days.

A world where the US has 0 nukes and everyone else has theirs isn't a world I'd like to live in. If you had a molecule of reason in your brain you'd feel the same.
QFT!

I can't stand it when people advocate trying to shove the nuclear cat back into the bag...

Now you know how Iran feels.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,532
27,835
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?
I honestly don't believe that they could get much larger than the MIRV's we built during the height of the Cold War... i mean, those things are REDONKULOUS!

"Country-killers"...

Actually the individual warheads on MIRVs are quite small. The single warhead Titans were the big'uns. The MIRV equipped missiles packed up to ten small warheads per missile (MX), three for the Minuteman IIIs. With the Cold War over the first round of arms reduction reduced the number of warheads in each missile to one. So MX (Peacekeeper) missiles lost nine warheads and MM3s lost two. This was a mixed bag as far as arms control goes. MIRVs are really only good for all out launches as envisioned against the Soviets. If you have one lonely Iraniqian reactor to want to nuke the MIRV doesn't work because you have nine extra warheads you have to deal with. So reducing the number of warheads creates more flexibility in targeting.

On the other hand, and one reason the US and USSR went the MIRV reduction route is that both sides were able to preserve the total number of missiles (for a while, later reduced) is that if you reduce the number of missiles but keep the MIRVs you risk a situation where if you think your launchers might be under attack you might be quicker on the draw than you would be if you knew you could lose some silos and still have sufficient missiles to retaliate to a confirmed attack.

The nuclear material is returned to Pantex for dismantling and storage. Until the U.S. decides to operate a mixed oxide reactor or breeder reactor, it will not be possible to get rid of the weapons material. We aren't there yet, politically.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,532
27,835
136
Originally posted by: SecPro
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So what's happens to the nuclear material inside them? Are we going to have fewer, but bigger nukes?

Look up a company called USEC. That will give you some idea about what's happening to all the retired warheads from all sources.

USEC can downblend highly enriched uranium to produce reactor fuel but can not address plutonium.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
This is all a devious plan by Bush.

Reduce the number of weapons and then announce that we don?t have enough nukes and demand that congress pay to make more!!!

Damn warmongering traitor!!! :thumbsdown::|:thumbsdown:
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,721
1
0
heh... probably just getting rid of ones that are outside their service lifetime

Good PR and getting rid of a liability all in one fell swoop.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Colt45
heh... probably just getting rid of ones that are outside their service lifetime

Good PR and getting rid of a liability all in one fell swoop.
Exactly.

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,877
34,826
136
Originally posted by: ironwing
The nuclear material is returned to Pantex for dismantling and storage. Until the U.S. decides to operate a mixed oxide reactor or breeder reactor, it will not be possible to get rid of the weapons material. We aren't there yet, politically.

The DOE has let a contract for a MOX fuel fabrication plant at the Savannah River Site. Construction began this year and it is expected to go online in 2014.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Old news. It only took five years. Must be a slow news week - or someone found a link between The Cheney White House and the destruction of the CIA torture tapes that needs to be covered up.


Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ironwing
The nuclear material is returned to Pantex for dismantling and storage. Until the U.S. decides to operate a mixed oxide reactor or breeder reactor, it will not be possible to get rid of the weapons material. We aren't there yet, politically.

The DOE has let a contract for a MOX fuel fabrication plant at the Savannah River Site. Construction began this year and it is expected to go online in 2014.

I'm looking out the window at a 20 year-old plant that will be burning MOX fuel.

 
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