Goodbye NX, hello Switch

[gus6464]

I see the haters are out in full force now that announcement is in 24 hours.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tweak155]

I see the haters are out in full force now that announcement is in 24 hours.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Have not been following close enough to realize this... got me searching and found this "full list" of release titles:

The list of leaked Nintendo Switch launch games in full:

• Dragon Quest XI
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
• Splatoon
• Mario Kart 8
• NBA
• Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim
• Mario
• Sonic
• Monster Hunter
• LEGO City Undercover
• Just Dance 2017
• Project Sonic

NSFW Ads (at least one that popped up for me): http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...-Switch-games-list-release-dates-announcement

Solid if they have 3 of their biggest IP's ready to go on launch day.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I am getting excited about the Switch. I feel like Nintendo has made the perfect casual gamer console.

 

[KentState]

Have not been following close enough to realize this... got me searching and found this "full list" of release titles:

The list of leaked Nintendo Switch launch games in full:

• Dragon Quest XI
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
• Splatoon
• Mario Kart 8
• NBA
• Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim
• Mario
• Sonic
• Monster Hunter
• LEGO City Undercover
• Just Dance 2017
• Project Sonic

NSFW Ads (at least one that popped up for me): http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...-Switch-games-list-release-dates-announcement

Solid if they have 3 of their biggest IP's ready to go on launch day.

Don't know how I feel about rebuying a bunch of games just to have them on the Switch. The only one that would make me buy the system right now is if they cancel Zelda for the Wii U.

 

[Tweak155]

Don't know how I feel about rebuying a bunch of games just to have them on the Switch. The only one that would make me buy the system right now is if they cancel Zelda for the Wii U.

True, had not realized this morning that we already have MK8 lol... and it just says "Mario" so that could also be a port as well. Find out later today I suppose.

 

[Ichinisan]

Actually there's no strong indication that 3rd party multiplatform support will be better. For one, NBA Live and Skyrim have not actually been announced for the Switch, despite being shown in the reveal trailer. Skyrim is a port of a last generation game, which is no better than the slew of last gen ports the Wii U got at the start (Mass Effect 3, Arkham City, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and a few others). Only Ubisoft really bothered trying to support the Wii U with current games like Assassin's Creed IV and Watch_Dogs. Given that the Switch is going to be significantly behind even the Xbox One, I'm skeptical that developers will be able to port 8th gen console games to the Switch. There is a rumor that From Software has Dark Souls 3 running on the Switch, but that's just a rumor. I'll give the Switch credit for third party support when current gen games actually start appearing on it.

The real advantage that the Switch has over how the Wii U did at launch is better marketing. The reveal trailer for the Switch immediately set a better course for marketing than the Wii U ever had. The Wii U was just a confusing product. A lot of people thought it was an accessory for the Wii, or hadn't even heard of it. Even promotional videos were unclear about just what the Wii U did. It has a screen? Is the screen its own thing? How do you use it? And the very name added to the confusion. Simply calling it the Wii 2 could have made things clear, but nope. And Nintendo's marketing was virtually all focused on kids, never making an attempt to appeal to adult gamers who actually see online promotion. With the Switch, everything about the role and function of the console is clear. It's a console that you can hook up to your TV or take with you on the go, simple. The ditched the Wii brand entirely, so no confusion on that end. And they've made an effort to appeal to adults, by focusing on adults using the system in the reveal trailer and showing it off on the Tonight Show, where I'm pretty sure viewer demographics skew a bit past grade school. So, solid groundwork for the Switch's marketing have been laid, I just hope Nintendo can follow up on it over the next few months.

Here's the problem: The big feature of the Switch is that you can take it with you.

We have no shortage or portable entertainment these days. Many of us already carry around smartphones and tablets. We probably aren't going to spend $200+ for another device to bring with us. We're just not bored enough to spend that much for portable entertainment. We already have that.

I love Nintendo and I hope they prove me wrong, but I don't see a compelling reason for most people to get the Switch.

 

[Ichinisan]

Or, they could have gone away from gimmicks and just put out a PS4 clone. Then, they would have gotten all the multi-plats and exclusive nintendo games.

The only thing killing nintendo is their idiotic management. They literally could have just hired a few hardware people from sony or M$ and just put out a x86 machine for LESS R&D money than putting out a new gameplay paradigm.

If they had something similar to a One S or PS slim for $250 for holidays last year, they'd have sold gangbusters. I mean, they could have just ported Mariokart, 3d world, and smash bros, and had a couple big multi-plats, and they'd have sold tons.

"Do exactly what competitors are doing. Don't differentiate your platform. Make sure the multi-platform games have no compelling reason to own them on your platform."

Sounds like a plan!

 

[purbeast0]

Have not been following close enough to realize this... got me searching and found this "full list" of release titles:

The list of leaked Nintendo Switch launch games in full:

• Dragon Quest XI
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
• Splatoon
• Mario Kart 8
• NBA
• Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim
• Mario
• Sonic
• Monster Hunter
• LEGO City Undercover
• Just Dance 2017
• Project Sonic

NSFW Ads (at least one that popped up for me): http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...-Switch-games-list-release-dates-announcement

Solid if they have 3 of their biggest IP's ready to go on launch day.

Mario Kart 8 and Zelda are both ports. Not sure I can get excited for ports being the biggest games at launch.

Here's a list of titles supposedly that will be shown today.

https://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/363582251#p363582251

 

[preslove]

"Do exactly what competitors are doing. Don't differentiate your platform. Make sure the multi-platform games have no compelling reason to own them on your platform."

Sounds like a plan!

Their IP is their differentiator. If they had a PS4 clone, there'd be tons of 3rd party titles. Having a unique gameplay style has proven to drive 3rd party developers away. It's looking like that will continue to be true.

Also, shoving unique gameplay conventions into many of their first party titles has hurt many of those games. Imagine if they had just made a normal star fox game for wii u, instead of using that dumb tablet aiming style...

 

[poofyhairguy]

Having a unique gameplay style has proven to drive 3rd party developers away.

The 3DS has had pretty good third party support. This is clearly a 3DS successor as much as it is a a Wii U successor.

In fact I would say the Switch is Nintendo admitting it can't crank out any part of a successful PS4 clone (the hardware, the software or the online network) that would be needed to compete for hardcore gamers. Instead it is targeting casual gamers who want a LITTLE bit better of a gaming experience than their iPhone. I feel like Nintendo can do well in that segment.

In fact I expect most of the games on the platform will be mobile titles with real controls bolted on, which is enough for me frankly. I am sick of touchscreen controls or trying to sync some Bluetooth controller to a phone.

 

[Ichinisan]

Their IP is their differentiator. If they had a PS4 clone, there'd be tons of 3rd party titles. Having a unique gameplay style has proven to drive 3rd party developers away. It's looking like that will continue to be true.

Also, shoving unique gameplay conventions into many of their first party titles has hurt many of those games. Imagine if they had just made a normal star fox game for wii u, instead of using that dumb tablet aiming style...

As was pointed out, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and lost that generation. Nintendo tried that and it didn't work.

 

[Aikouka]

If I had to say what my biggest worry about the Switch will be, it's probably a poor online implementation. Part of that is because Nintendo has a history of poor online implementations, and also the nature of the Switch and its portability. If we go back to the introduction video, you see how every instance of multi-machine multiplayer was people in the same area working off what appeared to be ad-hoc connections (e.g. the basketball, the arena back area, etc.).

Now, this doesn't mean that Nintendo can't implement their own version of PlayStation Network or Xbox Live, but what it does mean that is a good number of the presented situations won't be able to work with it unless you've got WiFi. While the system is docked, this shouldn't be.

EDIT:

In fact I would say the Switch is Nintendo admitting it can't crank out any part of a successful PS4 clone (the hardware, the software or the online network) that would be needed to compete for hardcore gamers.

I don't think it's Nintendo admitting that they can't do it, but rather that they don't want to do it. Nintendo seems to have this strange fascination with having to do something different. I know it seems weird to complain about it when we complain so much about Ubisoft, Activision or EA releasing their yearly refresh, but I think the biggest problem is that Nintendo is too proud to admit that their attempts are failures. An example of this would be the new control scheme in Star Fox Zero. I've seen very little praise for the game, but there has been quite a lot of negativity, and it has either been for the controls or the lack of originality in the story (how it felt like a remake).

 

[Lil Frier]

Don't know how I feel about rebuying a bunch of games just to have them on the Switch. The only one that would make me buy the system right now is if they cancel Zelda for the Wii U.

I see that as a problem, myself. If you'd basically let Nintendo renege on a promise to give you Zelda on the Wii U, and throw them $300+ for a console and game for their broken promise, it encourages treating customers poorly. Never understood why the gaming community is so afraid to vote with its wallet. I've admittedly boycotted a LOT of stuff, based on how companies treat myself and other customers. I don't care about Zelda at all, but I'm not sure I want a Switch because of how poorly Nintendo had supported its stuff with good software in the past 4 years. I've done a complete 180 on being excited for Scorpio because of how MS has behaved.

 

[cmdrdredd]

As was pointed out, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and lost that generation. Nintendo tried that and it didn't work.

That's because Nintendo went with a proprietary disc format and did not actively court the 3rd party developers and publishers. They have long been known to have a hostile attitude toward 3rd party developers or at least not be as helpful as they could be. That is their biggest fault and I see nothing that changes that here so it will be more of the same.

 

[preslove]

As was pointed out, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2 and lost that generation. Nintendo tried that and it didn't work.

They don't need to "win," they need to make a profit. Another Wii U and they are headed for trouble.

And, what dredd said.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I see that as a problem, myself. If you'd basically let Nintendo renege on a promise to give you Zelda on the Wii U, and throw them $300+ for a console and game for their broken promise, it encourages treating customers poorly.

On the flipside, not many people bought a Wii U. I didn't, I thought the controller was a dud from the start.

The fact that I can get basically get the two games I wanted the most for the Wii U (Zelda and Mario Kart) really makes the Switch an enticing proposition.

I don't think it's Nintendo admitting that they can't do it, but rather that they don't want to do it.

Might be a little of both. Nintendo admitted it had trouble developing Wii U games, I can't imagine a console with the power of the PS4 would have been a walk in the park for them.

In a way, the Switch is less of a risk than a PS4 clone because they KNOW they can pull off mobile and developing games for a console with that level of power.

 

[Ichinisan]

That's because Nintendo went with a proprietary disc format and did not actively court the 3rd party developers and publishers. They have long been known to have a hostile attitude toward 3rd party developers or at least not be as helpful as they could be. That is their biggest fault and I see nothing that changes that here so it will be more of the same.

The disc format is inconsequential to a developer except for capacity.

XBOX 360 had far less capacity than PS3. Even the original Mass Effect was severely constrained by it. That particular game was kind-of an exception to the norm because it has SO MUCH DIALOGUE with different voices and inflections.

In the PS2 v Gamecube v XBOX days, very few games used the full capacity of a DVD. Many PS2 games were on CD-format discs. When they figured out how to remove garbage data from dumped Gamecube games, it was found that most of them didn't use all the storage space of a Gamecube disc.

Games that fill single-layer or dual-layer DVDs rarely have more than a few hundred MBs of game content when you exclude wasteful FMVs and waveform audio. Having extra capacity made game developers lazy. You give them more and they waste it. Sequenced music can change dynamically with the situation / environment, which really makes the games more immersive and uses drastically less storage. Real-time rendered cutscenes are also better in some situations when they accurately represent the environment you were playing in. A Zelda game today will probably have the same pre-rendered cutscenes duplicated 3+ times to show Link with each tunic / outfit.

 

[Aikouka]

Might be a little of both. Nintendo admitted it had trouble developing Wii U games, I can't imagine a console with the power of the PS4 would have been a walk in the park for them.

In a way, the Switch is less of a risk than a PS4 clone because they KNOW they can pull off mobile and developing games for a console with that level of power.

I have a feeling that the issue with the Wii U wasn't so much the Wii U's power, but rather an issue with development tools and such. One of the advantages that Nintendo gets with the Switch is that they'll get some of Nvidia's development tools since they're using the Tegra platform. It seems that the Japanese have usually been notorious about bad development environments. I mean... part of Sony's platform for the PS4's release was "our dev tools don't suck so badly anymore!" Microsoft has a bit of an advantage because they are the developers of one of the biggest IDEs -- if not the biggest IDE -- on the market (Visual Studio).

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have a feeling that the issue with the Wii U wasn't so much the Wii U's power, but rather an issue with development tools and such. One of the advantages that Nintendo gets with the Switch is that they'll get some of Nvidia's development tools since they're using the Tegra platform.

Good point! It also helps that going forward they can have one set of tools for mobile and tv console instead of two like they have had since the first Gameboy launched.

I want Nintendo to survive, and I think the Switch is at pretty safe bet for them.

 

[Red Hawk]

Here's the problem: The big feature of the Switch is that you can take it with you.

We have no shortage or portable entertainment these days. Many of us already carry around smartphones and tablets. We probably aren't going to spend $200+ for another device to bring with us. We're just not bored enough to spend that much for portable entertainment. We already have that.

I love Nintendo and I hope they prove me wrong, but I don't see a compelling reason for most people to get the Switch.

We don't have portable entertainment with proper controls. Nintendo seems to be the only one who can do it, but the 3DS proves there's still a market for that even in the age of smartphones and tablets. You simply won't be able to get a full experience like Breath of the Wild on other mobile devices, not immediately in any case, and who wants to play that on a phone without proper controls anyways?

I've said it before, but my job will soon have me riding a train for about two hours total each day. Is the ability to pull out a Switch and play some BotW, Skyrim, Dark Souls 3 (possibly) and more during that train ride worth $250 to me? I'd say yes.

Their IP is their differentiator. If they had a PS4 clone, there'd be tons of 3rd party titles. Having a unique gameplay style has proven to drive 3rd party developers away. It's looking like that will continue to be true.

Also, shoving unique gameplay conventions into many of their first party titles has hurt many of those games. Imagine if they had just made a normal star fox game for wii u, instead of using that dumb tablet aiming style...

Nintendo isn't really banking on a unique gameplay style with the Switch, this time around. The appeal of the Switch is the unique ability to use it as a both a home and handheld console, with versatile controllers that ultimately still function as traditional controllers.

That's because Nintendo went with a proprietary disc format and did not actively court the 3rd party developers and publishers. They have long been known to have a hostile attitude toward 3rd party developers or at least not be as helpful as they could be. That is their biggest fault and I see nothing that changes that here so it will be more of the same.

What Ichinisan said, but even with this said -- what does this change, exactly? There were circumstances that prevented the Gamecube from competing well with the PS2, that's the whole point. The question is why would things be different now, and I think it's fairly shortsighted to boil it all down to disc format...I mean, on that front the Gamecube was at least an improvement over the N64 since the N64 used cartridges and lost a bunch of critical 3rd party devs (particularly Squaresoft) over it. So by your logic the Gamecube should have sold better than the N64, and compared better with the PS2 than the N64 did with the PS1. But it didn't, not by a long shot.

I have a feeling that the issue with the Wii U wasn't so much the Wii U's power, but rather an issue with development tools and such. One of the advantages that Nintendo gets with the Switch is that they'll get some of Nvidia's development tools since they're using the Tegra platform. It seems that the Japanese have usually been notorious about bad development environments. I mean... part of Sony's platform for the PS4's release was "our dev tools don't suck so badly anymore!" Microsoft has a bit of an advantage because they are the developers of one of the biggest IDEs -- if not the biggest IDE -- on the market (Visual Studio).

Oh it was definitely a power issue with the Wii U. The power issue should never be downplayed as having nothing to do with the Wii U's downfall, it was definitely a contributing factor. But it was just one of several critical failures. Design, function, marketing, they all came together in a perfect storm that left developers and consumers utterly uninterested in the Wii U. It just had very little to offer as a game system.

 

[preslove]

I guess one thing going for the switch is android games should be really easy to port.

 

[purbeast0]

There any word on if preorders are going to go up during this show? With Amazon I'm going to preorder one even if I don't plan on getting one right now and then I can decide later if I want to keep it.

 

[gus6464]

The only place that announced preorders is the Nintendo store in NYC. Nintendo is already warning that first shipment will be limited. Maybe next week places like Amazon and Best Buy will announce preorders.

 

[Chiropteran]

http://www.nowinstock.net/it/videogaming/consoles/nintendoswitch/

Preorders were available at 11:30AM EST on Italian Amazon for 11 minutes. It's not known if they sold out, or were pulled because they were not supposed to go live yet.

 

[cmdrdredd]

.

What Ichinisan said, but even with this said -- what does this change, exactly? There were circumstances that prevented the Gamecube from competing well with the PS2, that's the whole point. The question is why would things be different now, and I think it's fairly shortsighted to boil it all down to disc format...I mean, on that front the Gamecube was at least an improvement over the N64 since the N64 used cartridges and lost a bunch of critical 3rd party devs (particularly Squaresoft) over it. So by your logic the Gamecube should have sold better than the N64, and compared better with the PS2 than the N64 did with the PS1. But it didn't, not by a long shot.

Do note that you totally ignored where I talked about 3rd party developers. The GameCube disc capacity wasn't the problem, it was the cost. A DVD was cheap compared to something non-standard. Also after about 3 years in almost no games used cds on the ps2 any longer. I know because at the time I was working retail video game sales and it was a common thing to have someone return a game because it was on a cd and their ps2 had trouble reading the blue reflective discs. After a couple years this issue all but disappeared unless someone was buying a used game. So while the capacity wasn't a at issue the cost of a format that is not industry standard is and nintendo's hostile attitude toward developers didn't help matters when you had Sony actively working with developers to help them along and Microsoft throwing money at everyone and everything they could when the Xbox arrived. Nintendo simply was pushed out.