Goodbye NX, hello Switch

[Chiropteran]

The more I think about it the more I think the switch is the best possible console.

I bought a PS4 on release primarily to serve as a bluray player + netflix amazon etc. At the time I also thought I might buy some games on it, but here we are so many years later and I haven't bought a single game. In every case where I was seriously considering a game I realized I could play the same or similar game on my PC at better resolution better fps and better controls. Steam sales and such made the games a lot cheaper on PC as well. I don't think the situation would be much different with an xbox either.

The switch, on the other hand, gives me options I don't have with my PC. I can't take my PC in the car or on the metro. Even laptop gaming is not viable in those situations because a mouse doesn't work very well on the go, but the attached joycons will be fine. As well, the games I want to play the most are going to be switch exclusives. There won't be any question about buying them on PC or switch, because most of them won't ever exist for PC.

And price... I just don't get what the issue is. Switch is the first console in ages that actually comes with two usable controllers. Even today, years after release, if you want a second controller with your PS4 total is going to be more expensive than the switch. And if you want portability, add $200 for a vita. The switch pricing is fine for what it is.

The one thing I don't like what I have heard about, is the online service, but it's software. It can be changed based on feedback, and I'm pretty sure I can just ignore it and play single or local multiplayer games exclusively.

 

[Chiropteran]

That thumbstick could be a bit hard to reach on demand.

I don't disagree that it's an imperfect solution. The joycons are supposed to be good for 20 hours between charges, charge time of a couple hours, so unless you never remember to charge them after use it would only be necessary in extreme situations.

After trying to use my PS4 controller with it's 6' long cable this doesn't seem like a hardship at all.

 

[Sonikku]

Nintendo needs to make M rated games.

 

[zerocool84]

The more I think about it the more I think the switch is the best possible console.

I bought a PS4 on release primarily to serve as a bluray player + netflix amazon etc. At the time I also thought I might buy some games on it, but here we are so many years later and I haven't bought a single game. In every case where I was seriously considering a game I realized I could play the same or similar game on my PC at better resolution better fps and better controls. Steam sales and such made the games a lot cheaper on PC as well. I don't think the situation would be much different with an xbox either.

The switch, on the other hand, gives me options I don't have with my PC. I can't take my PC in the car or on the metro. Even laptop gaming is not viable in those situations because a mouse doesn't work very well on the go, but the attached joycons will be fine. As well, the games I want to play the most are going to be switch exclusives. There won't be any question about buying them on PC or switch, because most of them won't ever exist for PC.

And price... I just don't get what the issue is. Switch is the first console in ages that actually comes with two usable controllers. Even today, years after release, if you want a second controller with your PS4 total is going to be more expensive than the switch. And if you want portability, add $200 for a vita. The switch pricing is fine for what it is.

The one thing I don't like what I have heard about, is the online service, but it's software. It can be changed based on feedback, and I'm pretty sure I can just ignore it and play single or local multiplayer games exclusively.

What I would say is two SERVICEABLE controllers. Everywhere I've read says they are only ok using them like a controller but are too small for any decent length of time and cramp your hands and that the right joycon doesn't feel right since the stick is in the center. Never mind that there is only once stick on each. If you actually want two real controllers, you're going to be paying more than the competition.

The reason the pricing is bad is because they are comparing it to PS4/Xbox. It's a home console first and portable second. When it's priced the same, less powerful, other systems come with games, the accessories are much more expensive, the third party outlook is even worse than the previous console, it doesn't look good.

Of course I have it preorderd just because of Zelda, but between Zelda and Mario Odyssey, there's not much. But if someone is going to have this as their main way of playing games, they are going to be sorely disappointed. You are yet again going to rely on Nintendo making games for it. For me and you that can play other great games other ways it doesn't matter, but if this is someone's only console, they are going to miss out on all the great games that developers make for PC/Xbox/PS4.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The more I think about it the more I think the switch is the best possible console.

I bought a PS4 on release primarily to serve as a bluray player + netflix amazon etc. At the time I also thought I might buy some games on it, but here we are so many years later and I haven't bought a single game. In every case where I was seriously considering a game I realized I could play the same or similar game on my PC at better resolution better fps and better controls. Steam sales and such made the games a lot cheaper on PC as well. I don't think the situation would be much different with an xbox either.

The switch, on the other hand, gives me options I don't have with my PC. I can't take my PC in the car or on the metro. Even laptop gaming is not viable in those situations because a mouse doesn't work very well on the go, but the attached joycons will be fine. As well, the games I want to play the most are going to be switch exclusives. There won't be any question about buying them on PC or switch, because most of them won't ever exist for PC.

And price... I just don't get what the issue is. Switch is the first console in ages that actually comes with two usable controllers. Even today, years after release, if you want a second controller with your PS4 total is going to be more expensive than the switch. And if you want portability, add $200 for a vita. The switch pricing is fine for what it is.

The one thing I don't like what I have heard about, is the online service, but it's software. It can be changed based on feedback, and I'm pretty sure I can just ignore it and play single or local multiplayer games exclusively.

That's your fault for not buying any games. There are thousands of titles even ones you can't get on pc. Giving the switch a free pass because you don't use your PS4 is as lame an argument as there can be.

 

[Tweak155]

Everyone keeps saying then don't forget to charge them well many of us do and it would be nice to have a way out of the box to play on your TV and charge them at the same time, unfortunately you have to pay extra for that.

Well you could just play with it on the tablet for an hour and switch to the TV once you have the joy cons charged.

Not sure why this is a big deal. My PS4 came with only one controller, and it's charging cable was ridiculously short so I couldn't actually use it while plugged in to charge it.

I was thinking along these lines myself. Never found charging DURING game-play (or lack thereof) an issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I was thinking along these lines myself. Never found charging DURING game-play (or lack thereof) an issue.

For the PS4 I just bought a 3rd party charging stand for cheap, think it was $15. I imagine there will be a couple third party solutions for the switch.

 

[poofyhairguy]

For the PS4 I just bought a 3rd party charging stand for cheap, think it was $15. I imagine there will be a couple third party solutions for the switch.

I am wondering if we don't see a third party dock eventually, maybe with Ethernet and a hard drive built in when the Switch supports all of that. Or even just cheap knock off docks like what is in the box. USB C opens that door.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

That's your fault for not buying any games. There are thousands of titles even ones you can't get on pc. Giving the switch a free pass because you don't use your PS4 is as lame an argument as there can be.

Yeah the PS4 has some amazing exclusives. The Last of Us might be the best story I have ever played through. and it's probably the best third person shooter I have ever played (unless you want to count the GTA games, but those are pretty hard to fit into a single category). I liked Dark Souls 3 and the graphics and framerate were better than Bloodborne, but I love Bloodborne. Just so much cooler an environment and the way health regenerates favors really aggressive tactics that make it one of the most exciting games I have ever played. Uncharted 4 even at 30 fps on the low-end PS4 Slim that I have looks amazing and it's another great story. Uncharted 2 and 3 were great too. I like the Tomb Raider games and they're similar. If I had to pick a favorite out of the Tomb Raider and Uncharted series I'd probably pick Uncharted 4, but they're all pretty close in quality. But none of them feel like the same game. Those are the only games I can mention right now since that's what I have played on my PS4 since getting it last month, but I think it's a pretty nice console and I'm glad I bought it. Especially considering Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't look like it'll get a PC release, and there is absolutely nothing like Red Dead Redemption on PC.

And Playstation has some great deals on games too. I just bought Journey for $4.94. I paid $10 for a new copy of The Last of Us. $10 for a new copy of Ratchet & Clank. $14 for a new copy of God of War 3. $16 for a new copy of Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection. $18 for a new copy of Bloodborne. Every one of those feels like a steal.

 

[purbeast0]

The Last of Us isn't a PS4 game it's a PS3 game lol.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The Last of Us isn't a PS4 game it's a PS3 game lol.

And GTA V isn't a PC game, it's an XBox 360/PS3 game?

 

[purbeast0]

And GTA V isn't a PC game, it's an XBox 360/PS3 game?

Are you trying to say that an HD remake of a PS3 game is the same thing as a game that was designed and released for 3 platforms at once?

So Uncharted 1 2 and 3 are PS4 games too? God of War 1 and 2 are PS3 games?

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Are you trying to say that an HD remake of a PS3 game is the same thing as a game that was designed and released for 3 platforms at once?

So Uncharted 1 2 and 3 are PS4 games too? God of War 1 and 2 are PS3 games?

The PC version of GTA V is a remaster that came out a year and a half later. I'd never say it wasn't a PC game. Yeah, I'd call Uncharted 1-3 PS4 games also since they came out natively on PS4. I never played GOW 1 and 2 on PS3 so I don't know if they were PS3 remasters or emulated PS2 games so I can't answer there.

 

[purbeast0]

The PC version of GTA V is a remaster that came out a year and a half later. I'd never say it wasn't a PC game. Yeah, I'd call Uncharted 1-3 PS4 games also since they came out natively on PS4. I never played GOW 1 and 2 on PS3 so I don't know if they were PS3 remasters or emulated PS2 games so I can't answer there.

Oh I assumed GTA5 all came out at the same time. Then yes GTA5 is definitely a PS3/360 game ported to PC.

 

[Chiropteran]

That's your fault for not buying any games. There are thousands of titles even ones you can't get on pc. Giving the switch a free pass because you don't use your PS4 is as lame an argument as there can be.

Wasn't interested in them. I am interested in Zelda, and games I can play on the go.

Maybe I'm some crazy anomaly, but when i'm at home I'd rather play a game on my PC with keyboard and mouse. I'll make an exception for Zelda since it's the only way to experience it.

Another exception would be fun "party games" like mario cart or maybe 1-2 switch. PS has a few gamesl ike that, but then i'd be looking at $60 for an extra controller, and $100 for motion controllers...

I just don't see how people can complain about the cost of the switch with a straight face, it's by far the cheapest system on release day. It only gets stupid if you insist on buying a dozen add-on pieces, but the PS or Xbox equivalents are just as expensive.

 

[Chiropteran]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01...ld-switch-looks-compared-to-the-wii-u-verison

 

[poofyhairguy]

I see a barriers to entry there. Firstly, a lot of parents may upgrade their iPhones/smartphones to the latest model every 1-3 years and pass on their old phone to their children. As a result, the children tend to get free smartphones.

I think you are making a bit of a leap with that logic. The average age for a kid getting their first smartphone is 10.3 years:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...10_as_portable_console_popularity_shrinks.php

Some parents don't like the idea of their young kids having all the access that phones can get and a Nintendo console can't get. There is a huge market for children less than ten who have parents who want to shut them up for a bit. I got my first Gameboy when I was 8.

So it must be true than that millions of kids play games on a portable but it may be in their backpack and they play on study breaks at school or even at home in their room. My concern is that the Wii U already offered the home portable gaming experience for these kids and yet they didn't buy it.

What you are missing is car rides. American kids are constantly being driven around in cars (to school, to soccer practice, to vacation, to a sibling's soccer practice) and having a device to placate the children in just this one instance is worth the whole price of a tablet or 3DS for these parents. On this metric, the 3DS was actually losing ground to tablets. From my link above:

The firm reports that on car trips, Nintendo's handhelds have fallen to fourth place behind tablets, phones, and DVDs as an entertainment choice, with just 24 percent of kids choosing to use them on trips.

In the regular DS era the regular DS was #2 on the list for car distractions. I am sure part of Nintendo's strategy with the Switch is to push back against tablets in this important market.

I think what's happening here is my "Western" disconnect from the popularity of Eastern portable console gaming.

I think that has something to do with it. The Switch is the Japanese dream device, coming out the gate fully portable and with JRPGs. Hence why pre-orders sold out in Japan in no time. I expect the Switch to eventually kill both the Vita and the 3DS in Japan and probably eventually become the top Japanese console. That is probably enough to make the system a "success" to Nintendo.



What I also think is missed in any analysis that says "forget portable, Nintendo should have launched a PS4 clone" is that frankly hardcore gamers would have still been unhappy with Nintendo's best attempt at making a "competing console." Because of that, Nintendo might have been worse off than with the Switch. In fact you could say the Wii U WAS their attempt at pleasing those used to 1080p Ps3/360 graphics and it was the worst selling console in their history.

Knowing Nintendo, if they came out with a PS4 clone it would be barely more powerful than a regular PS4 (and that is giving them credit) for lets say $300 (still better than I would actually expect). It would still have cell phone in-game chat because Nintendo is backwards, and it would have still had less storage or some obvious flaw because Nintendo rolls that way. Hardcore gamers would have been saying "why would I get this when I can get a PS4 for $____ less or a PS4 Pro that is way more powerful for $100 more?" Western third party companies would have been careful to release games on the system just because the Wii U was such a flop, and the fact that Nintendo never has good development tools (don't underestimate how much heavy lifting Nvidia is doing for Nintendo on that side via what was done for the Shield devices). That means the Nintendo PS4 Clone would have had an uphill battle in its home market, with children, with hardcore gamers AND with third party developers. At least now Nintendo only has to win over the latter two of those groups, as the former two will be along for the ride the moment the Switch gets a real Pokemon game and maybe a price drop.

What I like about the Switch so much is it is Nintendo admitting what it can be and what it can't be. It can develop great games, and it can innovate in the market, but they don't really have the resources to make great games for mobile AND console and they really don't have the clout to innovate in many places and have the market accept those innovations. In two years time I expect the Switch will be the only Nintendo console, with the full weight of Nintendo and all the developers loyal to Nintendo (or a Japanese audience) backing it. That ensures the Switch never goes through the kind of first party game drought the Wii U went through because every single game Nintendo will release in say 2020 will be for one platform instead of two (not counting their iOS/Android "games"). If the Switch somehow manages to become a hit on top of that than western 3rd party developers will HAVE TO play along and release watered down versions of their top titles or risk losing access to the upcoming generation of gamers that the Switch can capture. Heck a lot of us drop money on Nintendo today because as kids we loved their games. "Get them while they are young" is a great way to build a market for the future, targeting current 20 and 30 somethings that are a marriage or a kid away from losing their gaming time/budget is not.

In a way, the Switch is Nintendo's last big bet and it bet the farm on a mobile device because mobile has been more successful for them lately (the DS outsold the Wii and the 3DS outsold the Wii U by a lot). I don't see how people can blame Nintendo for making that calculation, even if they personally don't like it. As a PC gamer I love it, because within two year's time the Switch will have more exclusives that the PC won't get that I want to play than either the PS4 or Xbox One combined (I hate anything related to zombies). It is the perfect second console in my opinion.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Oh I assumed GTA5 all came out at the same time. Then yes GTA5 is definitely a PS3/360 game ported to PC.

Yep but it's a pretty good one with higher resolution textures and such. Just as it was ported to XB1/PS4.

Wasn't interested in them. I am interested in Zelda, and games I can play on the go.

Maybe I'm some crazy anomaly, but when i'm at home I'd rather play a game on my PC with keyboard and mouse. I'll make an exception for Zelda since it's the only way to experience it.

Another exception would be fun "party games" like mario cart or maybe 1-2 switch. PS has a few gamesl ike that, but then i'd be looking at $60 for an extra controller, and $100 for motion controllers...

I just don't see how people can complain about the cost of the switch with a straight face, it's by far the cheapest system on release day. It only gets stupid if you insist on buying a dozen add-on pieces, but the PS or Xbox equivalents are just as expensive.

Except it's not the cheapest. You could get an XB1 right now with a game and two controllers for $350. Getting that for the switch is $300 + $50 + $70x2(pro controllers because what comes with it is NOT equivalent to an XB1 or PS4 controller).If you don't want the extra controller it's $265. Same for the PS4, get the system and a game for $267. I mean there's even a PS4 bundle with 3 games (Cod: Infinite Warfare Legacy Edition which is essentially two titles and Uncharted 4) for $322. Even a switch with no accessories and one game is $350 minumum. Pro controllers for switch are $70, PS4 and XB1 controllers can be purchased for $50 right now. Everything about the switch is more expensive, not less. It doesn't matter what the PS4 or XB1 cost at launch, the switch didn't launch along side them. It must compete against less expensive but more powerful consoles with game bundles and cheaper accessories.

 

[Sonikku]

Their software is more expensive too. While everybody might debut at $60, the other systems will see those prices crater in a couple of months. With Nintendo you can be a late adopter and still find the game you want for it years later is still $60. I would like to give New Super Mario on the U a try for instance, but only as a greatest hits $20. I don't want it bad enough for what Nintendo insists charging for it all this time. That's just revenue down the drain.

 

[Chiropteran]

"it's by far the cheapest system on release day"

Xbox one pricing today is not release pricing. On release day, xbox one was $499

"You could get an XB1 right now with a game and two controllers for $350. Getting that for the switch is $300 + $50 + $70x2(pro controllers because what comes with it is NOT equivalent to an XB1 or PS4 controller)."

Sure, but then you ALSO have the bonus of play on the go (+$200 to get that with ps4, no option with xbox) motion sensors in the joycons (+$100) So even with your biased examples of current pricing of other consoles vs release price of switch, the current consoles are more expensive.

"Pro controllers for switch are $70"

You are comparing full MSRP to discounted sale prices. You also don't need to buy two of them, the joy cons can be used just fine. Some people may even prefer to use joycons because they work better for the games they play.

 

[Chiropteran]

Their software is more expensive too. While everybody might debut at $60, the other systems will see those prices crater in a couple of months. With Nintendo you can be a late adopter and still find the game you want for it years later is still $60. I would like to give New Super Mario on the U a try for instance, but only as a greatest hits $20. I don't want it bad enough for what Nintendo insists charging for it all this time. That's just revenue down the drain.

That cuts in both directions. You buy Zelda at release for $50 with prime discount, play it for 6 months, then you can sell it used for $35 because Nintendo hasn't discounted it at all and the cartridge keeps near full value because it doesn't suffer scratches like a disc can. Net cost to you, $15.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some cheaper options for games on the switch, but the consistent pricing can be nice when it comes to secondary market.

 

[poofyhairguy]

That cuts in both directions. You buy Zelda at release for $50 with prime discount, play it for 6 months, then you can sell it used for $35 because Nintendo hasn't discounted it at all and the cartridge keeps near full value because it doesn't suffer scratches like a disc can. Net cost to you, $15.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some cheaper options for games on the switch, but the consistent pricing can be nice when it comes to secondary market.

Yeah the Prime discount is huge (same for the Best Buy or GameStop clubs) because if you preorder every game it's less than $50 a game. In fact I am pissed that some games I want aren't getting a physical release (like Snipperclips or Has-been-heros) because I want the Prime discount lol. At least those two games should be under $30 each even at full price.

Edit: Switch is maybe Pascal?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZVpH...5YBy-gJ9Z__I9enRmzx9yBZ6Jp9rLz2oob2B217R4DHyA

 

[Ranulf]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01...ld-switch-looks-compared-to-the-wii-u-verison

Eh, switch does look a bit better not surprisingly but "Please note there are differences in time of day and camera." Certainly not $300 more worth it to me. Also I don't see the cartridge version holding its value more because of its form factor, more because supply/demand. If the switch sells well. For pete's sake, it was hard to get a disc copy of splatoon new up until recently. Nintendo being Nintendo.

I'll believe Switch is using Pascal when reviewers can test it and have nvidia statement on it.

 

[Sonikku]

Yeah the Prime discount is huge (same for the Best Buy or GameStop clubs) because if you preorder every game it's less than $50 a game. In fact I am pissed that some games I want aren't getting a physical release (like Snipperclips or Has-been-heros) because I want the Prime discount lol. At least those two games should be under $30 each even at full price.

Edit: Switch is maybe Pascal?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZVpH...5YBy-gJ9Z__I9enRmzx9yBZ6Jp9rLz2oob2B217R4DHyA

I prefer GCU because it works on more than just preorders and can be stacked with not only sales on said title months later, but can also be stacked on top of 25 off 100 visa promotions and other things. Sometimes BB even offers a $10 gift card for preordering a game with them on top of GCU savings, which can be used on the next preorder and so on. $30 every 2 years + a month's worth of patience before buying a game seemingly halves the cost of the hobby. Well, provided you're not a Nintendo fan at least...

 

[Ranulf]

"it's by far the cheapest system on release day"

Xbox one pricing today is not release pricing. On release day, xbox one was $499

"You could get an XB1 right now with a game and two controllers for $350. Getting that for the switch is $300 + $50 + $70x2(pro controllers because what comes with it is NOT equivalent to an XB1 or PS4 controller)."

Sure, but then you ALSO have the bonus of play on the go (+$200 to get that with ps4, no option with xbox) motion sensors in the joycons (+$100) So even with your biased examples of current pricing of other consoles vs release price of switch, the current consoles are more expensive.

"Pro controllers for switch are $70"

You are comparing full MSRP to discounted sale prices. You also don't need to buy two of them, the joy cons can be used just fine. Some people may even prefer to use joycons because they work better for the games they play.

People keep bringing this up and I keep laughing at it. Yes, historically for a new console the price is good (in terms of hardware/chips I'd argue it isn't but thats a side argument). Accessories not so much. 1-2 Switch should be a bundled game like wii sports.

The problem is this is not 2013 or early 2014. This is 2017, there is cheaper competition with more powerful hardware. more games, with upgraded models already out or on the way (and revised versions) for equal or less money. Nintendo does have to compete with that beyond their die hard fans or those who apparently want a nintendo tablet gaming system.