Goodbye NX, hello Switch

[poofyhairguy]

Well, I mean..he isn't wrong about the reasons. It's not our fault people are dumb and don't care about money.

Hey now, I take offense to the idea that people who buy a Switch "are dumb and don't care about money." That is a whole bunch of sour grapes just because your prediction about the Switch's chances was wrong (so far). I fully admit that the Switch might still flop and because I don't own a lot of Nintendo stock I don't take that personally, but I do take personally the concept that anyone who wants a Switch is just too stupid to not realize why they suck.

Here is what you and Mr. Sensation completely missed about the Switch- hardcore gamers are not the entire gaming market. It may seem that way when you go to an E3 or you get on Neogaf, but there are a ton of people who don't make gaming a massive priority in their life who can still find a way to scrape together $400+ for a Switch and some games especially if the Switch respects the fact that gaming is not a priority in their lives (and it does more than any other major console). The Neogaf mentality wants to put everyone in two groups- either you are a 30-something hardcore gaming who blows $thousands on games a year and won't even look at a platform that doesn't let you play games at some crazy competitive level with online and voice chat or you are a child/woman who is completely casual about gaming and is just as happy with Candy Crush as you are a AAA game.

Turns out there IS a middle ground of people who like games (especially when they were younger and had more free time) but who aren't accommodated by consoles locked to a TV with libraries full of "cinematic" games that require at least 30 minutes of commitment each time they play because it takes that long to get to the next save point. Youtube is full of people who at first hated the concept of the Switch but then got one and then discovered that getting to play Zelda on your terms (meaning at a doctor's office or on a plane or in the bed before you sleep) means you end up playing more games period.

Personally I have invested $thousands in PC gaming hardware with a massive Steam library the last few years that are both collecting dust because its so much more convenient to just play another quick round of Has-Been-Heroes on my Switch. People like me, plus the Japanese, plus handheld gamers, plus children, plus the hardcore gamers who buy it despite their complaints because they buy everything gaming related are enough to certainly make the Switch more of a success than the Wii U.

Our reasons for buying the console might not seem valid from your point of view, but that does not mean we are "dumb" just because we have different priorities than you do.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Hey now, I take offense to the idea that people who buy a Switch "are dumb and don't care about money." That is a whole bunch of sour grapes just because your prediction about the Switch's chances was wrong (so far). I fully admit that the Switch might still flop and because I don't own a lot of Nintendo stock I don't take that personally, but I do take personally the concept that anyone who wants a Switch is just too stupid to not realize why they suck.

It's dumb from a 'fool me once' standpoint. I require they prove themselves after the last fiasco. If you are happy to purchase a console for 1 game, fine, but I don't call that economically sensible. Had Zelda not been a release game would have jumped on it so quickly? It's not meant to offend, it just is what it is. I didn't jump right on the Wii U, but I still regret the purchase. I do agree that from a demographics perspective we are a bit skewed.

 

[purbeast0]

I spent $800 at Xbox One launch to play Killer Instinct, and that was like 3 years ago or whenever it came out when I was making less money.

Now a days, spending $450 for Zelda was a drop in the bucket.

It's not up to you to decide what is "economically sensible" for anyone other than yourself.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I spent $800 at Xbox One launch to play Killer Instinct, and that was like 3 years ago or whenever it came out when I was making less money.

Now a days, spending $450 for Zelda was a drop in the bucket.

It's not up to you to decide what is "economically sensible" for anyone other than yourself.

It's not about 'affording' it. I can afford whatever. It's about being fleeced and you making those purchases giving companies a false sense of it's okay. It's all part of the larger argument and contributes to the other conversations where you whined about HD remakes. Do you not see the parallel? Most of the reason things continue to go downhill is because too many people have exactly that attitude and don't call the companies on their BS.

Why does Zelda perform like sh!t on a new console (as well as an old one which is what it was basically made for, then purposely pushed back)? Etc. It is basicaly inexcusable, but people make excuses.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's dumb from a 'fool me once' standpoint. I require they prove themselves after the last fiasco.

Fair enough. If I had bought a Wii U I would feel kinda burned too I think. A Wii U owner really doesn't have a reason to buy Switch until either ARMS or Splatoon 2 comes out. I could see waiting and making sure you aren't an "ambassador " for the Switch. Sorry for taking your comments so personally.

If you are happy to purchase a console for 1 game, fine, but I don't call that economically sensible. Had Zelda not been a release game would have jumped on it so quickly?

Yes frankly. BOTW was never my killer app game for the Switch. I mean I like Zelda ok but I dislike open world games because I get tired of them long before I finish them (which I might do with BOTW frankly). I prefer games I can play in bursts and casually, and Mario Kart is the king of that sort of thing.

My Switch killer app always was Mario Kart 8D. The Wii U version was almost enough to justify me buying that system if it only had an online battlemode, and that is exactly what the Switch version has. If BOTW would have never been released on the Switch I still would have preordered one because I was terrified I couldn't get one before Mario Kart was released after fighting people to get a NES Classic and original Wii. I realize that is not the reason most people bought the Switch, and I think even Nintendo would admit BOTW was a better system seller than they could have expected.

I have to say though- now that I have the Switch Mario Kart 8D isn't even the game I am looking forward to the most. The Splatoon 2 testfire blew my mind with how fun it was. That went from a "maybe game" to a "I would pay $60 for that demo right now" kinda game. Knowing my luck the matches with actual people who buy the game will be much harder and I will get my ass handed to me, but between that game and an ARMs that might get my crossfit-loving wife to play a game with me the Switch is easily sucking up my entire gaming budget this year.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Fair enough. If I had bought a Wii U I would feel kinda burned too I think. A Wii U owner really doesn't have a reason to buy Switch until either ARMS or Splatoon 2 comes out. I could see waiting and making sure you aren't an "ambassador " for the Switch. Sorry for taking your comments so personally.



Yes frankly. BOTW was never my killer app game for the Switch. I mean I like Zelda ok but I dislike open world games because I get tired of them long before I finish them (which I might do with BOTW frankly). I prefer games I can play in bursts and casually, and Mario Kart is the king of that sort of thing. Add in the Switch had potential to be THE system for now dead types of games (turn based

My Switch killer app always was Mario Kart 8D. The Wii U version was almost enough to justify me buying that system if it only had an online battlemode, and that is exactly what the Switch version has. If BOTW would have never been released on the Switch I still would have preordered one because I was terrified I couldn't get one before Mario Kart was released after fighting people to get a NES Classic and original Wii. I realize that is not the reason most people bought the Switch, and I think even Nintendo would admit BOTW was a better system seller than they could have expected.

I have to say though- now that I have the Switch Mario Kart 8D isn't even the game I am looking forward to the most. The Splatoon 2 testfire blew my mind with how fun it was. That went from a "maybe game" to a "I would pay $60 for that demo right now" kinda game. Knowing my luck the matches with actual people who buy the game will be much harder and I will get my ass handed to me, but between that game and an ARMs that might get my crossfit-loving wife to play a game with me the Switch is easily sucking up my entire gaming budget this year.

Understood, and no, it's not personal, and yes, I understand how it might have been offensive. I just am not fond of Nintendo calling the Switch release a success when it clearly has so many issues. I don't feel they learned anything yet charge a premium. I get that people can afford it, and again, that isn't where I'm coming from. Just a general distaste with the anti-consumerism that has taken over the world that people seem completely fine with.

 

[Chiropteran]

$300 is not charging a premium. Comparable tablets cost the same, without joy cons or dock. Competing consoles cost a lot more on release. Sure, you pick up a cheap PS4 now for $200, but you will also be on the hook to upgrade to PS4 Pro if you want to play the latest games at the best settings.

 

[JujuFish]

$300 is not charging a premium. Comparable tablets cost the same, without joy cons or dock. Competing consoles cost a lot more on release. Sure, you pick up a cheap PS4 now for $200, but you will also be on the hook to upgrade to PS4 Pro if you want to play the latest games at the best settings.

My PS4 Pro cost me $339. A scant $40 more than the Switch.

 

[purbeast0]

It's not about 'affording' it. I can afford whatever. It's about being fleeced and you making those purchases giving companies a false sense of it's okay. It's all part of the larger argument and contributes to the other conversations where you whined about HD remakes. Do you not see the parallel? Most of the reason things continue to go downhill is because too many people have exactly that attitude and don't call the companies on their BS.

Why does Zelda perform like sh!t on a new console (as well as an old one which is what it was basically made for, then purposely pushed back)? Etc. It is basicaly inexcusable, but people make excuses.

It's got poor performance because it's a Wii U port and it wasn't designed for the system, I think everyone knows that. And yes I could have gotten a Wii U and Zelda for cheaper, but then I couldn't have played it on my flights and I wouldn't be able to play the Mario 64 sequel that is coming out this holiday season.

As far as the HD remake comparison, it's not even remotely the same. Tell me where I will be able to play the Mario 64 sequel other than the Switch? Or other Switch Nintendo exclusives? Sure right now Mario Kart and Zelda are ports, but as I mentioned, I got a Switch and Zelda for the future and to play it on an airplane, and I'm not getting Mario Kart because it sucks and because it's a port.

 

[CZroe]

So, is MK8 going to use the joycons? One side for each player? I just realized if I get MK8 for Switch, I may not be able to play multiplayer unless I buy some more controllers. I've got the two joycons that came with it, and one pro controller I bought for Zelda. But there's going to be fighting for that pro controller. I can feel it now. The modern day handing your guest the MadCatz.

$60 game turns into a $300 game real quick. Do I just need one more joycon or three more? Or just go three pros. That would be cheaper. Wondering if I should pick them up today as they may sell out within a couple days once the game comes out.

I'm going to guess that you have seen this?
https://youtu.be/rbfd75YRG34

My PS4 Pro cost me $339. A scant $40 more than the Switch.

Sounds like you got a great deal.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Understood, and no, it's not personal, and yes, I understand how it might have been offensive. I just am not fond of Nintendo calling the Switch release a success when it clearly has so many issues. I don't feel they learned anything yet charge a premium. I get that people can afford it, and again, that isn't where I'm coming from. Just a general distaste with the anti-consumerism that has taken over the world that people seem completely fine with.

Some of that I don't disagree with. I think the whole "it's not powerful enough" argument is missing the point, but I can deny obvious design issues that are frustrating.

I hate that my dock scratched my Switch day one, I hate that I think all left Joycons have a design flaw that requires a RMA, I hate that I can't backup my save games, I hate the rails are plastic on the Joycon side so some fit on a Switch more tighter than others, I hate the ergonomic disaster that is the Joycon strap, I am scared of the variation in Switch display quality.

With all that said I don't find any of that to be a deal breaker to me but I can understand if someone does. Sometimes the only vote we get is with our money and we need to vote wisely. Personally the Switch has tapped into an inner enthusiastic gamer in me I thought was lost, and I am enjoying the ride of what I think is a crazy awesome first year library.

 

[Sonikku]

It really isn't powerful enough. I wish it could run Zelda stable at 60fps, but it can't even manage 30. And this is a basically a last gen game.

 

[Chiropteran]

My PS4 Pro cost me $339. A scant $40 more than the Switch.

Sounds like a fair price.

I don't see how if $340 is reasonable, somehow $40 less is "charging a premium", especially if portability, multiple controllers, or 4 hours of gaming battery life is of value to the buyer.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's got poor performance because it's a Wii U port and it wasn't designed for the system, I think everyone knows that. And yes I could have gotten a Wii U and Zelda for cheaper, but then I couldn't have played it on my flights and I wouldn't be able to play the Mario 64 sequel that is coming out this holiday season.

As far as the HD remake comparison, it's not even remotely the same. Tell me where I will be able to play the Mario 64 sequel other than the Switch? Or other Switch Nintendo exclusives? Sure right now Mario Kart and Zelda are ports, but as I mentioned, I got a Switch and Zelda for the future and to play it on an airplane, and I'm not getting Mario Kart because it sucks and because it's a port.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but you are making excuses. There is zero reason that the flagship game for a new system performs like that. And before we go down the "it was like that on the NES" path, yea..that was how many years ago? It's barely acceptable on the Wii U. Companies continue to not care because they know people will pay for it anyway. That's why to this day things are going down hill, because of the concessions people have made the last 10 years. And the performance of Zelda is only one of multiple issues with the system.

This is the last I'll talk about it at this time. My intent wasn't to come in and trash the system. I realize people like it, but I laugh that this is what things have come to and people defend it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Sounds like a fair price.

I don't see how if $340 is reasonable, somehow $40 less is "charging a premium", especially if portability, multiple controllers, or 4 hours of gaming battery life is of value to the buyer.

The systems are not remotely comparable, the games are generally cheaper on anything but Nintendo, and let's not forget the multitude of add on controllers -- sure..you don't HAVE to have them but let's face the facts. Even the comments here express how you really are better with them. It could have easily used previous gen controllers.

 

[Chiropteran]

The systems are not remotely comparable.

Then why are you defending the idea that they should be compared on price?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Then why are you defending the idea that they should be compared on price?

I never made a price comparison. Where did you get that? I said it's overpriced and a nickel and dimer system. The price of it alone (as compared to other consoles) is not my issue. We all know Nintendo charges premiums, so that really is nothing new. Anyway, as I stated I'll bow out. I'm not out to change peoples minds, and it's not like mine is going to change at this time.

 

[Chiropteran]

But you admit that the PS4 isn't even remotely comparable, while accepting it's higher price as fine?

Portable devices, as a rule, cost more. A gaming laptop is far more expensive than a cheap desktop with a video card.

 

[cmdrdredd]

$300 is not charging a premium. Comparable tablets cost the same, without joy cons or dock. Competing consoles cost a lot more on release. Sure, you pick up a cheap PS4 now for $200, but you will also be on the hook to upgrade to PS4 Pro if you want to play the latest games at the best settings.

You are aware that even the base model PS4 can do HDR right? Best settings...you mean how games are scaled up to 4k if you have a tv that can do it? Most games don't look obviously better to me. Just sharper. Plus you overlook the fact that a pro controller is $70 and no, playing with joycons is NOT an acceptable alternative to me. Suddenly that $300 system creeps up into PS4 pro pricing. The base PS4 also does a lot more than the switch does at this time. Video apps, blu-rays etc. the Xbox too for that matter.

From a value standpoint the switch fails in my eyes but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the most powerful portable gaming system ever and the couple exclusives. After all I buy consoles for exclusives which is why I do not own an Xbox at this time.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It really isn't powerful enough. I wish it could run Zelda stable at 60fps, but it can't even manage 30. And this is a basically a last gen game.

I hate to hold the Switch 100% accountable for the performance of any launch window game. So far my experience today with Mario Kart 8D has been great with no frame stutters, as was my experience with the Splatoon 2 testfire (which admittedly is 720p 60fps). I think future Nintendo titles will hopefully run well on it, and I accepted the concept of getting AAA ports went out the window when it was decided it would be a portable console instead of a regular home console.

Frankly even Pascal couldn't have closed the massive gap between the Switch in portable mode clockspeeds and the XB1. Pascal developer kits do exist and we don't see a performance leap that would make a Switch an Xbox One compared to the X1:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=jetson-tegra-x2&num=1

Tegra chips are just too far away from the x86 consoles, and I think Nintendo needed Nvidia to have the kind of leap in performance and development tools that they did have with the Switch.

The Switch is a new Gameboy that is faster than their last gen console (especially in equivalent docked mode) and magnitudes faster and better than the 3DS that came before it. Taken in context it's cool hardware, just expensive with a limited library. And it might be a while before it gets full handheld support from Nintendo given that the 3DS line is still getting new models, much like the DS and Gameboy situation.

 

[ImpulsE69]

But you admit that the PS4 isn't even remotely comparable, while accepting it's higher price as fine?

Portable devices, as a rule, cost more. A gaming laptop is far more expensive than a cheap desktop with a video card.

I don't accept it actually. I have no interest in PS4 or XB1 because they are just want to be PC's.....but this thread isn't about them.

Interesting though that they just announced a new 2DS.

 

[Chiropteran]

You are aware that even the base model PS4 can do HDR right? Best settings...you mean how games are scaled up to 4k if you have a tv that can do it?

No, honestly I have no idea what the specific differences are.

But I do know if the PS4 Pro offers no real advantage, it's going to be some terrible bad PR. And if the PS4 Pro does offer real advantages, it's going to diminish the value of original PS4 consoles.

Really it's kind of an awkward position to be in, IMO. Unless you are Sony, and you get all your customers to buy 2 consoles instead of one just for a tiny potential upside.

 

[Chiropteran]

I don't accept it actually. I have no interest in PS4 or XB1 because they are just want to be PC's.....but this thread isn't about them.

Well, it is about them when people want to use them to compare prices and complain about the switches price (even though it's the lowest intro price for an actual new console we have seen in a while).

And if the joy-cons hold no value to you, you can sell them on ebay and mostly pay for the cost of a pro controller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-Sw...772356?hash=item2cbd7eea44:g:k6cAAOSwU8hY7E~Y

And TBH, I don't think you can fairly compare the pro controller with the dualshock4.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dualshock+4+battery+life&atb=v55-1&ia=web

 

[purbeast0]

The Switch Pro Controller is a bajillion times better than the PS4 controller.

 

[cmdrdredd]

No, honestly I have no idea what the specific differences are.

But I do know if the PS4 Pro offers no real advantage, it's going to be some terrible bad PR. And if the PS4 Pro does offer real advantages, it's going to diminish the value of original PS4 consoles.

Really it's kind of an awkward position to be in, IMO. Unless you are Sony, and you get all your customers to buy 2 consoles instead of one just for a tiny potential upside.

It scales games up to 4k really that's the big difference. This allows the developers to use higher resolution assets. Anyway that's all im gonna say there cause this isn't really on topic.