Goodbye NX, hello Switch

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zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Switch might have Tegra K2 though.
My post #63 it's already confirmed its a Tegra X1, a modified version but still which means maybe it's slightly more powerful than the PS3/Xbox 360 but even if this is X2, it still won't be close in power to PS4/Xbox One because it's still a mobile chip. It's held back thermally because of that.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
5,457
136
My post #63 it's already confirmed its a Tegra X1, a modified version but still which means maybe it's slightly more powerful than the PS3/Xbox 360 but even if this is X2, it still won't be close in power to PS4/Xbox One because it's still a mobile chip. It's held back thermally because of that.

It's not confirmed. The initial devkit is believed to be using the X1 but that doesn't mean the final hardware is using it.

Because of how thick it is, Nintendo could in theory put something in there that would be competitive if not faster than the PS4 while in docked mode. They aren't though.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
It's not confirmed. The initial devkit is believed to be using the X1 but that doesn't mean the final hardware is using it.

Because of how thick it is, Nintendo could in theory put something in there that would be competitive if not faster than the PS4 while in docked mode. They aren't though.

Faster in what way? GPU horsepower, CPU speed, or both? We haven't seen full specs of the switch yet of course but I have a hard time believing that any Tegra chip would be competitive with the PS4 which we know is 1.84 TFLOPs and has roughly 72 texture units vs the X1's 16. The ROP count on the X1 is also 16 which is not enough to be competitive. It has specs that are lower than a GTX 650ti. I don't know how much higher Nvidia is able to go on it while also keeping battery life good. The switch has to be mobile and that means it can't draw the type of power a PS4 or XB1 does. I think the X1 is very impressive for what it is in a mobile environment or on my shield TV but compared against what AMD has in the PS4 and XB1 currently though I don't think it's in the same class at all but then again it doesn't really need to be for a device that is mobile. Not that Nvidia couldn't make a chip that is very competitive but given the requirements for mobility It's just not in the cards.

It'll probably be the best mobile gaming device ever in terms of capability in the graphics etc but I think I'd consider it a mobile device first.

The good thing about the Wii was that it wasn't priced the same as the competition. The PS3 was $600 while the Wii was $250. Today the PS4 can be had for $300 while the Wii U is also $300. Being a generation behind is less acceptable when you're priced the same as the people you don't want to compete with.

Yes and Microsoft is giving away games to push the XB1 sales. It's tough to compete with that.
 
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zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Faster in what way? GPU horsepower, CPU speed, or both? We haven't seen full specs of the switch yet of course but I have a hard time believing that any Tegra chip would be competitive with the PS4 which we know is 1.84 TFLOPs and has roughly 72 texture units vs the X1's 16. The ROP count on the X1 is also 16 which is not enough to be competitive. It has specs that are lower than a GTX 650ti. I don't know how much higher Nvidia is able to go on it while also keeping battery life good. The switch has to be mobile and that means it can't draw the type of power a PS4 or XB1 does. I think the X1 is very impressive for what it is in a mobile environment or on my shield TV but compared against what AMD has in the PS4 and XB1 currently though I don't think it's in the same class at all but then again it doesn't really need to be for a device that is mobile. Not that Nvidia couldn't make a chip that is very competitive but given the requirements for mobility It's just not in the cards.

It'll probably be the best mobile gaming device ever in terms of capability in the graphics etc but I think I'd consider it a mobile device first.



Yes and Microsoft is giving away games to push the XB1 sales. It's tough to compete with that.
And that's the thing, mobile tablet with a large a screen for a mobile system with a state of the art chipset and detachable controllers and a dock. There's no way this thing is going to be cheap. You can buy a PS4 and Xbox One for $300 right now. Plus we know Nintendo does not like/want to lose money on the actual hardware so there's no way this thing is cheaper than $350.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
And that's the thing, mobile tablet with a large a screen for a mobile system with a state of the art chipset and detachable controllers and a dock. There's no way this thing is going to be cheap. You can buy a PS4 and Xbox One for $300 right now. Plus we know Nintendo does not like/want to lose money on the actual hardware so there's no way this thing is cheaper than $350.

Pixel C on discount is $400 though a much larger screen than the Switch.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
5,457
136
Faster in what way? GPU horsepower, CPU speed, or both?

Both. I'm assuming there's nothing stopping something like a 1024 core Pascal Tegra if Nintendo was willing to pay and was willing to have a large performance gap between dock and tablet mode.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Pixel C on discount is $400 though a much larger screen than the Switch.

Which is already older tech, has been out for a while, doesn't include a dock, or controllers, and the Pixel C and Nexus products are always sold on slim margins.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
5,457
136
Which is already older tech, has been out for a while, doesn't include a dock, or controllers, and the Pixel C and Nexus products are always sold on slim margins.

Go look at Android phones with a 720p screen and tell me this can't be manufactured for more than $275. Nintendo won't lose money but they are fine with at cost.

Remember nVidia gave them a really good deal on this. The rumored quote I remember was to nVidia's sales team was something like "Get a console design win or don't come back"
 

gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
1,848
32
91
The X1 is considerably faster when given low level access to the chip. Obviously nvidia is giving Nintendo this access. I mean nvidia created a whole new API from scratch for the switch to give to Nintendo. You can't use Android benchmarks when trying to gauge the performance. I remember reading an article where unreal engine 4 running with low level access on the X1 didn't even break a sweat running 60fps at 1080p.

The portable screen is 720p. So the chip won't have to try very hard. Maybe the Nvidia API allows the chip to throttle itself by disabling cuda cores when in low power mode and then letting the chip go ham when plugged into the dock.

This is nvidias first outting in a major console. They are not going to half ass it.
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
The X1 is considerably faster when given low level access to the chip. Obviously nvidia is giving Nintendo this access. I mean nvidia created a whole new API from scratch for the switch to give to Nintendo. You can't use Android benchmarks when trying to gauge the performance. I remember reading an article where unreal engine 4 running with low level access on the X1 didn't even break a sweat running 60fps at 1080p.

The portable screen is 720p. So the chip won't have to try very hard. Maybe the Nvidia API allows the chip to throttle itself by disabling cuda cores when in low power mode and then letting the chip go ham when plugged into the dock.

This is nvidias first outting in a major console. They are not going to half ass it.

It still can only push have the teraflops of the PS4. Doesn't matter how much direct control someone has to the hardware, there isn't much there. At this time, the PS4 and XB1 have a hard time pushing 60fps at 720p. Think about it, Nintendo is entering with 50% less computing power than a console that cost $300 and was released 2 years ago.
 

gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
1,848
32
91
It still can only push have the teraflops of the PS4. Doesn't matter how much direct control someone has to the hardware, there isn't much there. At this time, the PS4 and XB1 have a hard time pushing 60fps at 720p. Think about it, Nintendo is entering with 50% less computing power than a console that cost $300 and was released 2 years ago.
Xbone and ps4 have a hard time doing 60fps at 720p because of the overhead of the OS that is always running in the background. The switch does not have to be bound by this as well. The xbone os takes up a lot of GPU performance by having to be there at all times for streaming and all the other stuff.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
The X1 is considerably faster when given low level access to the chip. Obviously nvidia is giving Nintendo this access. I mean nvidia created a whole new API from scratch for the switch to give to Nintendo. You can't use Android benchmarks when trying to gauge the performance. I remember reading an article where unreal engine 4 running with low level access on the X1 didn't even break a sweat running 60fps at 1080p.

The portable screen is 720p. So the chip won't have to try very hard. Maybe the Nvidia API allows the chip to throttle itself by disabling cuda cores when in low power mode and then letting the chip go ham when plugged into the dock.

This is nvidias first outting in a major console. They are not going to half ass it.

What about the first Xbox?
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
What about the first Xbox?
And the PS3. This is not Nvidia's first console rodeo.

Anyways.


The puppet's got some points. Particularly about how developing a console to go head to head with Sony/MS isn't an assured success and potentially could be another huge loss, that every Nintendo home console since the NES has sold less than its predecessor (except for the Wii), and that having all your Nintendo games on ONE system is very appealing as opposed to having to buy both a home console and a handheld console.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
And the PS3. This is not Nvidia's first console rodeo.

Anyways.


The puppet's got some points. Particularly about how developing a console to go head to head with Sony/MS isn't an assured success and potentially could be another huge loss, that every Nintendo home console since the NES has sold less than its predecessor (except for the Wii), and that having all your Nintendo games on ONE system is very appealing as opposed to having to buy both a home console and a handheld console.

There's no way Nintendo ditches the 3DS anytime soon. It's sold tons and is literally the only thing still making them money. Without it they would have lost more even more than they already have. They will still have to support two consoles.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
There's no way Nintendo ditches the 3DS anytime soon. It's sold tons and is literally the only thing still making them money. Without it they would have lost more even more than they already have. They will still have to support two consoles.

Nintendo will keep supporting the 3DS for a while, sure, just like they supported the DS, and like how Sony and MS kept supporting the PS3 and 360 for a while after the PS4 and XB1 came out. But if the Switch does catch on, I expect the 3DS to be EOL'd soon enough. And the point is that, as a consumer, if you want all the latest and greatest games from Nintendo, you won't have to buy both a home console and a handheld with the Switch. Everyone can just buy a Switch and play Nintendo games to their heart's content, however they want. For people talking about price, look at it this way -- the Wii U's launch price was $299 for the base unit, 3DS' was $249. To be able to play all upcoming Nintendo games, you would have needed to spend $550, at the start. $600 if you wanted a Wii U with less miniscule storage space. Now would you rather do that, or buy one device that fills both roles for between $400-$300?
 

gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
1,848
32
91
Xbox and PS3 were only GPUs and both MS and Sony had a say in the design and implementation so it could work with the CPUs. The entire Switch SOC is Nvidia from top to bottom. Last I checked nvidia didn't create the development tools for those consoles either. This thing is all nvidia from everything released so far. No custom wireless solution for the controllers either as some outlets are reporting they are wifi-direct.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
And the PS3. This is not Nvidia's first console rodeo.

Anyways.


The puppet's got some points. Particularly about how developing a console to go head to head with Sony/MS isn't an assured success and potentially could be another huge loss, that every Nintendo home console since the NES has sold less than its predecessor (except for the Wii), and that having all your Nintendo games on ONE system is very appealing as opposed to having to buy both a home console and a handheld console.

I would like having all my Nintendo games on one system if it didn't mean having to give them their bi-decade $5x30 to have my NES/SNES collection on the go with whatever current system is available.
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
I would like having all my Nintendo games on one system if it didn't mean having to give them their bi-decade $5x30 to have my NES/SNES collection on the go with whatever current system is available.

I think it's pretty obvious by now that Nintendo has no love for emulation, and that they're more than willing to charge a fortune for decades-old games that have be distributed and re-released on many different platforms. Mind you, that's not going to stop people from obtaining NES/SNES/etc. games the "illegal" way; being that the Virtual Console is an over-glorified emulator and ROM setup.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,934
5,803
126
I think it's pretty obvious by now that Nintendo has no love for emulation, and that they're more than willing to charge a fortune for decades-old games that have be distributed and re-released on many different platforms. Mind you, that's not going to stop people from obtaining NES/SNES/etc. games the "illegal" way; being that the Virtual Console is an over-glorified emulator and ROM setup.
With people buying the same game 3-4 times, it would be dumb for Nintendo to NOT charge people for it. That would be giving away money. It will continue until people stop buying the same games 2-3 times.
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
With people buying the same game 3-4 times, it would be dumb for Nintendo to NOT charge people for it. That would be giving away money. It will continue until people stop buying the same games 2-3 times.

And I won't argue against that as Nintendo has the right to charge whatever the hell they want for their games. However, when it comes to obtaining games that are decades-old and have been re-released on many different platforms, especially when it comes to emulation, Nintendo is going to have to make a very compelling argument as to why I should spend $5 on an NES VC title when I could just download an emulator and a ROM of that said game for free and just play it on my phone, tablet, or PC. And the arguments about how it's "wrong" or "illegal" won't really convince everyone about why they can't do that.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
The X1 is considerably faster when given low level access to the chip. Obviously nvidia is giving Nintendo this access. I mean nvidia created a whole new API from scratch for the switch to give to Nintendo. You can't use Android benchmarks when trying to gauge the performance. I remember reading an article where unreal engine 4 running with low level access on the X1 didn't even break a sweat running 60fps at 1080p.

The portable screen is 720p. So the chip won't have to try very hard. Maybe the Nvidia API allows the chip to throttle itself by disabling cuda cores when in low power mode and then letting the chip go ham when plugged into the dock.

This is nvidias first outting in a major console. They are not going to half ass it.

That UE4 demo was using noticeably lower quality textures, fewer particle effects, different lighting etc. it's not the same as the demo we saw before. Also nvidia had their hand in the Xbox and Xbox 360 too. Not to the extent they do with the switch though. It it was their gpu.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
5,457
136
Nintendo said yesterday that they are forecasting 2M shipments by the end of March. That seems low, but then again the Wii U only sold 13M consoles so far.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Nintendo will be announcing the exact release date and pricing on January 12 along with information about titles. (source)
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,934
5,803
126
Nintendo will be announcing the exact release date and pricing on January 12 along with information about titles. (source)
"The presentation will include the launch date and pricing for Nintendo Switch, as well as a look at the lineup of games currently in development."

I am curious to see what the have at launch.

As much as this consoles make me LOL about a lot of things, I think there is a threshold of like $300 for this that if they have a true Mario 64 successor (like it looked in the video) and one or two other games that look somewhat appealing, I may have to just snag one of these. My son will be 2 when this comes out and he already shows interest in all of my game/electronics stuff so maybe it can be something he can play in a year or so too.

But I'm pretty confident that since Nintendo is stupid they won't have a Mario game at launch and it won't come out for a year+ after launch. It just appears that they haven't learned anything still so I won't believe anything has changed until I see it.
 
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