Goodbye NX, hello Switch

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Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
I think I'm the only one who things Odyssey looks terrible, but this Octo Traveler thing looks like it might be interesting.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
I think I'm the only one who things Odyssey looks terrible, but this Octo Traveler thing looks like it might be interesting.

I'm actually not a huge fan of Galaxy, but my family absolutely loves it...but Odyssey actually looks really cool to me for some reason. I just found a buyer for my Wii U yesterday, so I think it's time to jump on that pre-order for the bundle!
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
Someone who doesn't think Mario Odyssey looks awesome is along the lines of someone who doesn't drink alcohol (unless they have a valid reason like alcoholism in the fam, health, etc) and is someone that I simply can't trust.
 
Reactions: Red Hawk

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
I've never been insulted by something so insignificant, but how dare you
Not a fan of Octo Traveler?



purbeast0 said:
Someone who doesn't think Mario Odyssey looks awesome is along the lines of someone who doesn't drink alcohol (unless they have a valid reason like alcoholism in the fam, health, etc) and is someone that I simply can't trust.

I'm trying to remember if we discussed me not drinking or if I'm going to break your soul right now.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Not a fan of Octo Traveler?


Well no, but that's another story. On average I just don't care for turn based combat, and this is just more of that. Usually the only time I've liked it is when there's an extra element of timing for the attacks and blocks, like in the Mario and Luigi games, or the new South Park games. If I remember the demo correctly, Octotraveler had some of those elements, or at least a little more that made it different than basic turn based, but I still don't typically care for the Japanese RPG style anymore and it didn't convince me otherwise.

That's fine though, I have more than enough games to get through at my current play rate. I still need to finish Zelda, which I could do at any point. I have the master sword and beat all the champions, but I'm trying to collect all the memories before finishing. I also am still finishing Golf Story, and Steamworld Dig 2. Then Mario next week.

And that's just with the Switch. I still haven't finished Horizon Zero Dawn, and the DLC (which I already preordered) will be out in November as well.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Ugh I should have never gotten my fiancée Stardew Valley. I don't think I'm gonna have access to the Switch when Mario Odyssey comes out. She's addicted to it. She's been playing it non stop since it got released on the Switch.
 
Reactions: Red Hawk

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Well no, but that's another story. On average I just don't care for turn based combat, and this is just more of that. Usually the only time I've liked it is when there's an extra element of timing for the attacks and blocks, like in the Mario and Luigi games, or the new South Park games. If I remember the demo correctly, Octotraveler had some of those elements, or at least a little more that made it different than basic turn based, but I still don't typically care for the Japanese RPG style anymore and it didn't convince me otherwise.

I have never understood the appeal of turn-based combat RPG games. My brother loves the Final Fantasy series, but I can't stand having to take turns womping on the other guy, and then having it be a random, roll-of-the-dice attack...it feels like all you're doing is pushing buttons, with no actual control over what happens. Stuff like Street Fighter is so much more fun for me because it relies on skill instead of turns & random reactions. Same deal with FPS like Counter-strike.

Maybe someone can explain the draw to me?
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I have never understood the appeal of turn-based combat RPG games. My brother loves the Final Fantasy series, but I can't stand having to take turns womping on the other guy, and then having it be a random, roll-of-the-dice attack...it feels like all you're doing is pushing buttons, with no actual control over what happens. Stuff like Street Fighter is so much more fun for me because it relies on skill instead of turns & random reactions. Same deal with FPS like Counter-strike.

Maybe someone can explain the draw to me?

Because most of the greatest RPG's include great stories that make you care about what you are doing.

Someone could go back to you and say why would someone love fighting games when you're just mindlessly beating up people for no reason.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,761
757
136
Because most of the greatest RPG's include great stories that make you care about what you are doing.

Someone could go back to you and say why would someone love fighting games when you're just mindlessly beating up people for no reason.
And the better implementations of turn based combat can be akin to chess or a strategy game where understanding what could potentially happen and planning ahead to either counter or set up a kill is massively important.
 
Reactions: Red Hawk

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
63
91
I played the demo of Odyssey in the local target and it is really good. It's like mario64, but the controls & graphics don't suck
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I have never understood the appeal of turn-based combat RPG games.

Maybe someone can explain the draw to me?

Turn-based combat is sort of just a variation of chess. A good game should usually provide some sort of strategy, which most of them usually save the more challenging strategies for boss fights. The one nice thing is that it's also usually a bit slower paced, which can be nice when you're not looking to play a fast-paced game.
 
Reactions: Red Hawk

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Because most of the greatest RPG's include great stories that make you care about what you are doing.

Someone could go back to you and say why would someone love fighting games when you're just mindlessly beating up people for no reason.

Do they make any RPG's that do real-time fighting?
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Do they make any RPG's that do real-time fighting?

Depends what you mean by RPG and real time fighting, because most "western" RPGs are real time fighting as I see it. Things like Skyrim, The Witcher, etc...
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Well no, but that's another story. On average I just don't care for turn based combat, and this is just more of that. Usually the only time I've liked it is when there's an extra element of timing for the attacks and blocks, like in the Mario and Luigi games, or the new South Park games. If I remember the demo correctly, Octotraveler had some of those elements, or at least a little more that made it different than basic turn based, but I still don't typically care for the Japanese RPG style anymore and it didn't convince me otherwise.

That's fine though, I have more than enough games to get through at my current play rate. I still need to finish Zelda, which I could do at any point. I have the master sword and beat all the champions, but I'm trying to collect all the memories before finishing. I also am still finishing Golf Story, and Steamworld Dig 2. Then Mario next week.

And that's just with the Switch. I still haven't finished Horizon Zero Dawn, and the DLC (which I already preordered) will be out in November as well.
The key to finding the memories, without looking them up in a guide, is going to the various stables and talking to the painter guy, the same one who hangs around Kakariko Village. He'll give you hints for where to find nearby memories.

I have never understood the appeal of turn-based combat RPG games. My brother loves the Final Fantasy series, but I can't stand having to take turns womping on the other guy, and then having it be a random, roll-of-the-dice attack...it feels like all you're doing is pushing buttons, with no actual control over what happens. Stuff like Street Fighter is so much more fun for me because it relies on skill instead of turns & random reactions. Same deal with FPS like Counter-strike.

Maybe someone can explain the draw to me?

Some people prefer the mental challenge, strategizing and planning ahead in a fight, over the challenge of physical "twitch" skill. That process starts even before the fight begins, by equipping characters with ideal weapons and armor. Like others have said, it's akin to the appeal of chess or other strategy board games. It's also an effective system when the game has you controlling multiple characters in a party, rather than just your character.

Really, the differences between RPGs like Final Fantasy and fighting games like Street Fighter or shooters like Counterstrike run much deeper than just the combat. RPGs tend to have a greater focus on story progression, worldbuilding and exploration, and character development.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
Fighters are on their own level they aren't really comparable to other genres IMO. You aren't even playing the "game" once you get good - you're playing your opponent. It's akin to poker. You get to the level where it turns into a mental game and you have to make your opponent do what YOU want them to do, and then counter. And you have to read them. Fighting games are much more mental taxing than any other genre out there, by far. It's also unique in that when you lose, you lost because you were outplayed. There is no randomness to it like there is with pretty much every other genre.

And this is in regards to playing fighters against humans, not AI. Playing them against AI is pointless unless you're just looking for story.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Do they make any RPG's that do real-time fighting?

Yes. The Tales series has a more active battle system. Final Fantasy XV is far more of an open-world game with combat that's sort of like a watered-down Devil May Cry. Ni no Kuni still features battle transitions, yet it has fairly active "open arena" style battles.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I have never understood the appeal of turn-based combat RPG games. My brother loves the Final Fantasy series, but I can't stand having to take turns womping on the other guy, and then having it be a random, roll-of-the-dice attack...it feels like all you're doing is pushing buttons, with no actual control over what happens. Stuff like Street Fighter is so much more fun for me because it relies on skill instead of turns & random reactions. Same deal with FPS like Counter-strike.

Maybe someone can explain the draw to me?

Turn based RPGs actually give you more control over what you're doing. It's not random in that you actually select your attacks, spells, items etc. Often you control each party member individually and can attack enemy weaknesses, heal members, debuff the enemy, buff the party etc. It's a lot of strategy
 
Reactions: Red Hawk

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Fighters are on their own level they aren't really comparable to other genres IMO. You aren't even playing the "game" once you get good - you're playing your opponent. It's akin to poker. You get to the level where it turns into a mental game and you have to make your opponent do what YOU want them to do, and then counter. And you have to read them.

Turn based RPGs actually give you more control over what you're doing. It's not random in that you actually select your attacks, spells, items etc. Often you control each party member individually and can attack enemy weaknesses, heal members, debuff the enemy, buff the party etc. It's a lot of strategy

Ah, that makes more sense. Although I don't like poker/chess/strategy-type of games myself...don't have the attention span for it

brb I feel the need to become Gordon Freeman for awhile...
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Ah, that makes more sense. Although I don't like poker/chess/strategy-type of games myself...don't have the attention span for it

brb I feel the need to become Gordon Freeman for awhile...

Yeah there's a big debate among RPG gamers about turn based which some people refer to as old school and real time battle systems. There's fans of both and I don't mind either if the game is built around it. Having real time system that you can pause and issue commands though, sort of a hybrid system, I dislike. It takes away from the real time combat making the quick thinking and knowledge of the combat system less of a benefit and doesn't offer the same level of strategy of a fully turn based system. As far as real time goes I really liked Witcher, Tales of Symphonia, Kingdom Hearts, Xenoblade Chronicles, Nier Automata, Final Fantasy XV (even if the rest of the game was pretty mediocre the combat was well done IMO). Turn based I liked Xenogears, Final Fantasy X, Pokemon games, Persona series, Super Mario RPG & Paper Mario, Bravely Default. Just some examples.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
I'm not an RPG fan at all but I'm enjoying the battles in South Park but pretty much because they talk shit the entire time, and they are kinda fun how you can move the guys to spots and your attacks only hit opponents in certain spots. I haven't found it challenging at all but I also put it on easy because I don't want to get caught up in battles really. But if this game was like a generic RPG not related to something I like, I wouldn't have even touched it.
 

dmoney1980

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2008
2,471
38
91
I never played Xenoblabde Chronicles since I never owned a Wii but I am hoping that they have a demo available for the switch. I like various types of battle systems as long as it keeps the pace moving. This is why I could never get into The 2 Divinity games on the PC even though they are amazing from a story and content perspective. The battles were a bit too slow for me.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I'm not an RPG fan at all but I'm enjoying the battles in South Park but pretty much because they talk shit the entire time, and they are kinda fun how you can move the guys to spots and your attacks only hit opponents in certain spots. I haven't found it challenging at all but I also put it on easy because I don't want to get caught up in battles really. But if this game was like a generic RPG not related to something I like, I wouldn't have even touched it.

I've watched people play it, and the battles look pretty... meh to me. It's what's commonly called an SRPG or Strategy RPG. Games like this usually have battles that take place on a grid, but also one that's normally a bit larger than what you see in South Park. (South Park is something like a 4x12 horizontal grid.) The genre kinda got pushed with the Ogre Battle series on the Super Nintendo, which culminated in the Tactics Ogre game. The director of that game worked with Squaresoft to develop Final Fantasy Tactics, which is a rather beloved non-main entry into the series. (Although, the world used in Tactics was the same as the one in Final Fantasy XII.) My biggest complaint about the South Park game is just the size of the grid... it seems so limiting when it comes to tactics, but beyond that, it looks fine.
 
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