Goodbye NX, hello Switch

[ImpulsE69]

I disagree, this was designed to be a premium cost peripheral seller. Cost definitely plays into it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Wow this is a so stupid.

Online lobby and voice chat -- Invite friends to play online, set play appointments, and chat with friends during online matches in compatible games─all from your smart device. A free, limited version of this app will be available for download in summer 2017.


You have to use a separate app on your phone to add friends, type, even freaking voice chat with them. So you have to talk into your phone while playing the game to talk to whoever you're playing with? How in the hell did they ever think this was a good idea? Why did they think this was more convenient than having everything baked into the Switch? This literally makes no sense at all.


When Reggie Fils-Aime was asking why needing a separate app to voice chat he said :

When asked why voice chat for Nintendo Switch will be tied to a mobile app, Reggie said, "we want to reinforce the capability to take your experience with you on the go.... The ability to do matchmaking, voice chat through your phone, it's a hell of a lot more convenient than having a gamer headset stuck into your backpack trying to do that. That's why we're doing it the way we are. We see the convenience, we see the ease of delivery. We think it's going to lead to a better experience."



That's just wow

So let me get this right, they think holding your phone while playing the switch or having a headset plugged into/bluetooth to your phone is easer than just having a bluetooth headset or plug right into the switch itself? Really? Also what happens when that App is eating your data and you smack into the cap for the month? Not everyone is paying through the nose for 10GB of data...many people have the bare minumum because phone companies make it very unaffordable. Even if it's not tied to your data plan, you still have to have your phone tied up all the time while you're gaming. Didn't they think of the people plugging it into the dock at home either? I mean I have to use my phone when I have wifi and gigabit ethernet available?

Thinking of the portable aspect do they expect everyone to be playing online while on the commute to and from school/work? How do you get reliable internet when most phone companies charge extra to add mobile hotspot plans to your account and even then limit your data use? Unless you pay for that on t-mobile or something like that you will probably be out of luck. I expect most people will do any online gaming at home where using your phone makes the least sense. I guess I don't agree with how they came up with the idea of convenience, it's the exact opposite to me.

The list of upcoming releases too...utterly terrible and I second earlier thoughts about buying games over, the price of the Pro controller, and also how there seems to be a dearth of new titles that are going to push those of us on the fence toward a potential purchase. A Vague window of Holiday 2017 for Super Mario Odyssey(whatever that is) isn't encouraging, nor is the lack of releases throughout the year. At least when compared to other systems anyway. Really the only hope they may have is some stuff to announce at E3. Even if you plan to use it as a touchscreen device if it gets ports of Android games, everyone already has a phone, many with a 5.5" screen which really isn't that much smaller than the Switch but they also have a higher resolution. Can't comment on battery life at this point.

 

[Ranulf]

^ It's very enticing to trade-in the Wii U towards the Switch. Your out of pocket cost is low and you get a brand new console with at least a 4 year support. Despite my criticism, when paying barely > $100 out of pocket, I'd want the Zelda and Mario Odyssey in 2017 on the Switch. I guess it just depends on how big your Wii U gaming library is.

The trade-in value on the Wii U is shockingly good. Towards the end of its life, the Wii was almost worthless for trade-in and I think the cheapest SKUs sold for $99.

I am surprised they didn't offer a removable battery option. A 2nd battery would have cost $30-40 and it would have significantly curbed rhr complaints about 3 hour battery life. The other issue now is that a built-in battery with 3 hours of life will wear out rather quickly since you can easily go through 300-350 charge cycles per year.

I can see the argument for trade in but I have about 5 games for mine and no desire to trade it in. I think there is more value in holding on to it for resale price and I doubt they will port games like Bayonetta 2 over. I refuse to pay $60 for a dlc update to mario kart8. They'll probably get me to buy Zelda for it and then the machine will get plugged into the tv a few times a year to play mario kart or wii bowling.

They have mentioned it being able to charge via usb, so they're going with the battery banks most people already have. More money for Nintendo with replacing the internal battery in the long run perhaps.

 

[rodserling]

After reading some hands on reports I canceled the 1 2 Switch. It's not worth even $40.

I am excited about the size of the switch.

It's much smaller than I thought it was going to be. Interesting.

 

[rodserling]

I'm assuming bluetooth is always on for the joycons even if they're docked on the switch? that'll kill battery.

 

[zerocool84]

I wish they would say something about the 3DS, if they are going to stop supporting it or not. It's Nintendo so they won't say anything but then I could get rid of it and trade it in to Gamestop

 

[zerocool84]

I'm assuming bluetooth is always on for the joycons even if they're docked on the switch? that'll kill battery.

It charges them while they are connected on the sides of the Switch.

 

[zerocool84]

If you buy Zelda digitally, there goes half your storage right off the bat. I had already mentioned storage would be an issue since it's only flash storage and even expanding with SD storage is much more expensive. Plus game updates are so much larger nowadays that storage is going to get filled up fast especially with 3rd party games. So pretty much don't buy games digitally on the Switch if you can help it.

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild requires 13.4 GB of storage space if it is downloaded to the Nintendo Switch. That is a little under half of the internal capacity of Nintendo’s new console.

That's if the user is opting for the digital version of the game, of course. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be available on a game card, too. And the Switch's storage is expandable by microSDHC and microSDXC cards, which are sold in volumes up to 512 GB. But it's unclear if the Switch dock's USB port can be used to attach an external hard drive for storage.

Realize also that the Switch's OS and other code will take up some space on the internal storage, but how much isn't known.

Again, with a capacity much smaller than the PlayStation 4 or Xbox One, the Switch faces its users with the decision to uninstall and reinstall large digital titles they own, or buy physical media editions of large games and save whatever is onboard for smaller downloadable games, title updates and the like. It also means a hidden cost in the form of a SD card unless the user tightly manages the storage.

http://www.polygon.com/nintendo-swi...drive-size-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild

 

[KentState]

BTW, I f'ing hate it when people debate pricing on game consoles and act like $50 is a big f'ing deal. $50 is a few hours of work, which pales in comparison to the amount of time most people spend on game consoles. The main expense of gaming is the time you spend gaming, not the actual cost of the setup.

Hell, $50 is like 30 minutes of work, but still not happy with how Nintendo is charging way too much for the accessories. I can see $300 for the Switch when a Shield TV is $199 without a screen or a Pixel C is $499 with a vastly superior screen albeit a lot more memory.

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this thing, but I guess I just must be old. I read the article on Ars and basically anyone who questioned it got modded down into oblivion. As an adult in my early 30s, I just can't fathom when I would use this thing in portable mode. The one reasonable case I saw was for someone who travels on business a lot, but that's really rare.

Are there a lot of adults playing games during their breaks at work or at the DMV or something?

 

[jpiniero]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this thing, but I guess I just must be old. I read the article on Ars and basically anyone who questioned it got modded down into oblivion. As an adult in my early 30s, I just can't fathom when I would use this thing in portable mode. The one reasonable case I saw was for someone who travels on business a lot, but that's really rare.

Are there a lot of adults playing games during their breaks at work or at the DMV or something?

Well, the 3DS sold 60+ million units, so yeah.

 

[podspi]

Gamestop trade-in is making it difficult for me not to consider turning in the U, but ... if the Switch had backwards compat I'd consider it, but it doesn't.

More likely to try to start buying up parts ... worried about when the gamepad finally bites the dust.

 

[JeffMD]

Am I the only one who is getting red alarms on the non replaceable battery? Depending on how much of the device is glue, this may not be a serviceable component! This will be your primary point of failure, once the battery is gone the unit must be tethered to a wall at all times. Also a defective/dead battery can be prone to more destructive issues.

And yea the storage options are not ideal for console level games. Not to many issues on phones and tablets because game makers don't make big elaborate console style games on them (which is why mobile gaming sucks). Nintendo is taking a budget tablet with a quality nvidia apu and running with it as a full console.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Am I the only one who is getting red alarms on the non replaceable battery? Depending on how much of the device is glue, this may not be a serviceable component!

That unfortunately is a bigger trend in all mobile devices (of which this is one).

And yea the storage options are not ideal for console level games.

A 32GB SD card is bigger than a single sided Blu Ray. And 64GB one that is sub-$20 for consumer prices can hold more than a dual layer Blu Ray.

I am really happy Nintendo is allowing us to upgrade the console via MicroSD. I will have a 128GB card waiting for it. They could have pulled an Apple and made a 128GB model $100 more.

 

[zerocool84]

That unfortunately is a bigger trend in all mobile devices (of which this is one).



A 32GB SD card is bigger than a single sided Blu Ray. And 64GB one that is sub-$20 for consumer prices can hold more than a dual layer Blu Ray.

I am really happy Nintendo is allowing us to upgrade the console via MicroSD. I will have a 128GB card waiting for it. They could have pulled an Apple and made a 128GB model $100 more.

Yes but not everyone is going to buy extra storage and flash storage is muuuuch more expensive than regular hard drives. With how big patches are the internal storage isn't going to last long. 32GB is a sorry amount in 2017 for a console.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yes but not everyone is going to buy extra storage and flash storage is muuuuch more expensive than regular hard drives.

Sure but the games themselves are flash storage. Therefore they don't have to install 20+GB on the console like Blu Ray games do because the access speeds should be fast enough for the types of titles the Switch hardware can handle. Maybe Switch games will have some readable space left for patches, we don't know.

I can see it being a problem if you want a lot of digital games, but frankly by the end of the Switch's life we will have semi cheap 256+ Micro SD cards everywhere and it won't matter as much. Hell early adopters don't have a lot of games to install anyway so it isn't a pain point now. My $30 128GB Micro SD will last way more than a year I bet.

With how big patches are the internal storage isn't going to last long. 32GB is a sorry amount in 2017 for a console.

32GB is pretty standard for a mobile device though. I mean that is how much the standard $700+ iPhone has, or any Galaxy device by default, and is way more than any other portable console ever. Plus we can expand it cheaply ourselves unlike said iPhone.

I don't see why people keep trying to compare this thing to a PS4 or Xbone or whatever. The docking is a novelty. This thing is clearly the replacement for the 3DS just as much as the Wii U. Hell it even gets the same battery life as the first generation 3DS.

I know Nintendo didn't say this is a 3DS replacement yet and they won't because that business is still doing well, but this is a tablet and there is no denying that. It was never going to replace both console lines and have hard drives or PS4 graphics or any of that stuff. What it is is the most powerful portable console of all time that can easily hook to a TV while it charges.

This thing will kill the Vita and eventually the 3DS in Japan which is what Nintendo wants. It exists to be a middle ground between iPhone freemium mobile games with onscreen controls and sit in front of the TV hardcore games. Until I can play a PS4 on the subway they don't compare.

 

[Ranulf]

The docking is a novelty.

I don't get the impression Nintendo thinks this.

 

[zerocool84]

I don't get the impression Nintendo thinks this.

It's not.

It's a home console first and portable second. Nintendo keeps saying its a console you can take with you, not a portable console you can play on your TV. It's a jack of all trades, master of none. It's not powerful for a home console and its not portable enough and not great battery life for a handheld. It's a great concept but it's a compromise in every area.

I already pre-ordered it and am anxiously waiting for Zelda but its already getting less third party support compared to the WiiU launch and the amount of games in the launch window is less than the WiiU as well. Right off the bat the longterm outlook is worse off than the WiiU which obviously isn't a good thing. Yet again Nintendo is targeting the Switch as someone's second console instead of trying to make it a first choice.

I love Nintendo games and of course want them to succeed, but if this is someone's only console they are going to miss out on a ton of great third party games that you can play on a PS4/Xbox console that is the same price, accessories are much cheaper, is more powerful, and has tons more games.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Well, the 3DS sold 60+ million units, so yeah.

It sold 60m to the 30+ demographic he spoke about? No and I've said before that I have never seen someone over the age of 10 using one out in public.

 

[zerocool84]

It sold 60m to the 30+ demographic he spoke about? No and I've said before that I have never seen someone over the age of 10 using one out in public.

Neither have I. I own one and love it but yes, anyone older most likely plays it only at home.

 

[Harrod]

I went ahead and pre-ordered one, not really because I think I will play it, but because my wife and I do a part time foster parents thing, and I think the kids will think it's pretty awesome.

 

[RussianSensation]

Hmm, watching a lot of the demos, it looks like they are doing good things with it. One thing I didn't anticipate was putting motion sensors in the little nunchucks (which will be lost and broken like crazy...) but it makes for some interesting gameplay. Like, gameplay where you face the other person and neither of you look at the screen. Pretty neat. Almost brings back a board game feel to it.

I might get into this one.

BTW, I f'ing hate it when people debate pricing on game consoles and act like $50 is a big f'ing deal. $50 is a few hours of work, which pales in comparison to the amount of time most people spend on game consoles. The main expense of gaming is the time you spend gaming, not the actual cost of the setup.

$50 isn't a lot but you are looking it the wrong way. For $50 you can buy 3-4 PS4 exclusives like Uncharted Collection, Ratchet & Clank, Until Dawn, etc., and the Uncharted 4 bundle is $250. Suddenly I get 4-5 "free" games with the PS4. You think parents or gamers don't look at things like that? I can't be the only one who does.

We didn't even add the cost of the Pro Controller and 64-128GB MicroSDXC card. Here in Canada, the Switch would cost me $490 + 13% tax when getting the console with no game and 1 pro controller. Let's say I want to play local co-op, those costs of extra controllers for my friends start to add up quickly but it's easy to find XB/PS4 controllers for $40-50. Plus those controllers can be used on the PC, but I doubt the Nintendo Pro Controller will have this bonus feature.

For all that, I would get just Zelda, Mario Kart 8 and I gotta wait until Holiday 2017 for Mario. It ends up costing $490 + $80x2 = $650 upfront for just 2 games. So clearly it's not about just $50. I can take $650 and get a new graphics card, do an entire mobo+CPU swap or spend it on Steam/PS4 games. That's a lot of money when the software choices are paltry at the moment. Since the console is new, the cost of ownership per game is high. Same reason many people waited 3 years to pick up XB1S/PS4 Slim. You get those consoles for half price of their launch MSRP and the existing gaming libraries are huge compared to the first 3-4 months post system launch. The longer it takes for Nintendo to build a 20-30M Switch install base, the more 3rd party developers will skip developing/porting Switch games.

That's why it's crucial to launch a console and have 50+ games out in the first 1-2 months. Once again, Nintendo isn't ready for this launch but since they threw Wii U under the bus, they have to rush out the Switch launch even though the number of launch titles is small.

Let's not live in denial but look at some worrying facts:

GDC Poll Revealed Only 3% Of Developers Were Working On Games For Nintendo Switch
"The developers were however more optimistic about the future of Switch as compared to that of WiiU as the GDC poll revealed that fifty percent developers thought it would sell more than WiiU, which has so far sold around 13 million units worldwide."
http://segmentnext.com/2017/01/13/nintendo-switch-gdc-poll/

Only 50% of 4500 developers think the Switch will sell > 13 million units lifetime. If you are Nintendo, this figure should be 90-100% considering the Wii U is their worst selling console of all time.

Hardware wise, the NV Android Shield TV cost $199 with a "Pro Controller" almost 2 years ago! With much worse specs, the Switch and a Pro Controller cost $370 US almost 2 years later. How much can that 720p screen, battery and joy-cons cost to manufacture? $100-120? The price for an extra 1GB of RAM and 32GB storage isn't a joke. So we get $199+$120 = $320 max price but the Switch still doesn't come with a Pro Controller. It's pretty clear that Nintendo baked profit into the hardware. Instead of trying to grow the install base to 20-30M asap and starting to make up $$$ on software while pricing the console at $199-249, they are trying to make $ day 1 on hardware.

I can only imagine the rip-off prices on the Switch in Britain, Australia and the rest of Europe.

Nintendo needs to sell tens of millions of these consoles and yet they are pricing the console and accessories as if they are a market leader, while in reality they are almost dead in the home console market space as far as consumer mindshare is concerned. The last thing you'd want when you have just had a disastrous previous gen console is to launch an underpowered, overpriced, game console with expensive accessories and glut of launch games.

Using PS Vita's price is irrelevant since that console bombed due to poor software support, expensive memory cards, and high price that curbed early adoption. Positioning the Switch against PS4/XB1 but ignoring that those consoles have hundreds of discounted games in their library is a mistake. Some gamers just want 1 console and based on how Wii U sold, there are very few console gamers left who are willing to purchase a Nintendo console only for its 1st party games.

 

[ViRGE]

Sure but the games themselves are flash storage. Therefore they don't have to install 20+GB on the console like Blu Ray games do because the access speeds should be fast enough for the types of titles the Switch hardware can handle. Maybe Switch games will have some readable space left for patches, we don't know.

I can see it being a problem if you want a lot of digital games, but frankly by the end of the Switch's life we will have semi cheap 256+ Micro SD cards everywhere and it won't matter as much. Hell early adopters don't have a lot of games to install anyway so it isn't a pain point now. My $30 128GB Micro SD will last way more than a year I bet.

I suspect the 32GB of flash is a combination of BoM and usage concerns. BoM because anything more would add another $50+ to the console, and usage because they'll also be selling games on game carts. So you could conceivably never install a game on the tablet itself, and indeed there will be a segment of the market (particularly minors) where that will absolutely be the case. Still, depending on how Switch sales go and how Nintendo ultimately either reduces the cost or upgrades the hardware further in its lifetime, a model with more flash is a safe bet.

Which brings up a side point on game cart costs. Switch games will be much bigger than 3DS games; Zelda will require a 16Gbyte cart, for example. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with game cart prices. 3DS game carts use a form of EPROM (XtraROM), and I'd expect Nintendo to use similar here. But have manufacturing costs come down enough to keep a 16GB or 32GB cart cheap? Or is that part of the reason game prices are going up?

* keep in mind BoM's influence on price is multiplicative since gross margin is a percentage

 

[Ranulf]

Can you use old Wii U pro controllers with the switch? At least with the Wii, the "classic" controller wasn't too expensive and you just plugged them into a wiimote. I remember the damn plastic wheels they had for Mariokart Wii. Ugh. Such a gimmick. I ended up with one official nintendo controller and later some cheapo brands. I think they work with the Wii U via the remotes. I bought an official pro controller for the Wii U at the start though.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Can you use old Wii U pro controllers with the switch?

Just pulling this out of my ass, but pretty sure NO.
I did read somewhere that it's all supposed to be BT. I might be wrong though.