Google done' goofed - fires employee for "opinions"

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Well I think the point is, at least IMO, is that any biological differences should maybe lead to something like 48/52% distribution of women/men in low level tech position (and maybe 52/48% in management where people skills are more important.). Instead it's 17% women at google.. Biological differences are minuscule compared to all other factors. They just make for a good distraction and scapegoat..

Do you actually know what their applicant rate is per gender? How about how well said applicants fit the specified role? I always find it odd when people suggest that the ratio should be close to even when they likely know nothing about the field, the applicants, or even those that go into that field. As someone who works in that field, I can tell you that women aren't that common in the field or as applicants for jobs, but the ones that I do work with are generally quite good. Although, the one thing that I do know about them is that they're very assertive, which is counter to the points brought up by the Google employee. ...or rather, it shows that the women that I work with don't fall into the gender stereotype of women avoiding confrontation.

Now, since people love to read into posts waaaaay too much, I always toss in a disclaimer. Do I think sexism exists? Of course. I recall how one coworker told me that a higher up one time said that he didn't want to hire attractive women because he thought they'd be a distraction. My problem is that I think people tend to look at far too little data, and spin it to whatever their current narrative is, which is arguably counter-productive. STEM teaching should be a focus for all schools and work to get people of all genders and races introduced to the more mechanical and mathematical areas of science. It's a good set of fields with a lot of different types of work, but we can't assume that it will be a fit for everyone.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
Do you actually know what their applicant rate is per gender? How about how well said applicants fit the specified role? I always find it odd when people suggest that the ratio should be close to even when they likely know nothing about the field, the applicants, or even those that go into that field. As someone who works in that field, I can tell you that women aren't that common in the field or as applicants for jobs, but the ones that I do work with are generally quite good. Although, the one thing that I do know about them is that they're very assertive, which is counter to the points brought up by the Google employee. ...or rather, it shows that the women that I work with don't fall into the gender stereotype of women avoiding confrontation.

Now, since people love to read into posts waaaaay too much, I always toss in a disclaimer. Do I think sexism exists? Of course. I recall how one coworker told me that a higher up one time said that he didn't want to hire attractive women because he thought they'd be a distraction. My problem is that I think people tend to look at far too little data, and spin it to whatever their current narrative is, which is arguably counter-productive. STEM teaching should be a focus for all schools and work to get people of all genders and races introduced to the more mechanical and mathematical areas of science. It's a good set of fields with a lot of different types of work, but we can't assume that it will be a fit for everyone.

The Google employee could just as well have brought up eugenics and the scientific evidence that shows that black people have a lower IQ (he actually does this in a convoluted way) and he'd be just as correct as he was with his sociobiological references. Both being completely dead fields of science and both attempting to show white males as superior beyond all else.

That is my problem with the fucker but somehow "science" and it's all good.

Trying to educate people about the actual real world and using real world examples doesn't work at all since showing that women are quite capable of handling stress without going "neurotic" will be deflected into "why aren't more men nurses, harablargh".

Why aren't women more prominent in fields when they get hired at a much lesser rate and thus don't see any point in educating themselves to holding that position? Fucking mystery is what it is...

You just can't fix stupid.
 
Reactions: xthetenth

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,997
20
81
Living in silicon valley all my life I've seen the good and bad.

The valley prides itself on unabashed meritocracy. From the time of eugenicist Bill Shockley (inventor of the transistor and Nobel Laureate) to the latest startups coming out of YC etc., the valley has provided an opportunity for the best and brightest around the world to succeed.

The fact that silicon valley is what it is is due to this principle alone. This simple fact seems to fly over the heads of these alt-reich numbskulls; if race were a primary factor in predisposition towards mathematical intelligence, there would be dozens of "silicon valleys" across the US, Canada, and western Europe. Yet, we have precisely ONE silicon valley in the world. This proves that there are a multitude of reasons why this is so. Race is a factor but of much lower importance than culture, discipline, and creativity.

The overall freedom that women are afforded and encouragement they receive leaves much to be desired across the world in order for them to achieve any semblance of parity with men in tech. In addition to this, there are other factors that prevent women from going into tech from a young age. This is the very issue that many of these left-wing people want to address which is totally fine. However, to unilaterally say 'everyone is equal' is a boldfaced lie and simply goes against nature.

Ergo, I will state what I've stated many times before. The West (whatever that means) is built on a lie that 'all men are created equal' and consequently these social-engineering measures try to fit a square peg in a round hole.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Living in silicon valley all my life I've seen the good and bad.

The valley prides itself on unabashed meritocracy. From the time of eugenicist Bill Shockley (inventor of the transistor and Nobel Laureate) to the latest startups coming out of YC etc., the valley has provided an opportunity for the best and brightest around the world to succeed.

The fact that silicon valley is what it is is due to this principle alone. This simple fact seems to fly over the heads of these alt-reich numbskulls; if race were a primary factor in predisposition towards mathematical intelligence, there would be dozens of "silicon valleys" across the US, Canada, and western Europe. Yet, we have precisely ONE silicon valley in the world. This proves that there are a multitude of reasons why this is so. Race is a factor but of much lower importance than culture, discipline, and creativity.

The overall freedom that women are afforded and encouragement they receive leaves much to be desired across the world in order for them to achieve any semblance of parity with men in tech. In addition to this, there are other factors that prevent women from going into tech from a young age. This is the very issue that many of these left-wing people want to address which is totally fine. However, to unilaterally say 'everyone is equal' is a boldfaced lie and simply goes against nature.

Ergo, I will state what I've stated many times before. The West (whatever that means) is built on a lie that 'all men are created equal' and consequently these social-engineering measures try to fit a square peg in a round hole.
I'll limit my reply to, holding up silicon valley as ANY type of example, good or bad, on the national stage let alone world is ludicrous. It simply doesn't have that great an impact. The lack of a wider viewpoint is it's citizens largest fault.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Tell me, do you believe the data that shows men and women have on average different traits?

we're not talking about physical traits that relate to stamina in extreme conditions. There is no real difference in a male or female's ability to code, to do math, to think creatively, do science, or any knowledge-based activity. Hell, in my experience (Genetics/molecular biology), the young women are completely equal if not flat out better and more dedicated/focused than the comparable males of the same generation.

It isn't an issue of biology in any way--it is purely related to cultural norms and practices.
 
Reactions: J.Wilkins

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
we're not talking about physical traits that relate to stamina in extreme conditions. There is no real difference in a male or female's ability to code, to do math, to think creatively, do science, or any knowledge-based activity. Hell, in my experience (Genetics/molecular biology), the young women are completely equal if not flat out better and more dedicated/focused than the comparable males of the same generation.

It isn't an issue of biology in any way--it is purely related to cultural norms and practices.

See, that simply is not true. Individually women may or may not have traits, but on the average there are things women and me are better at. We are not talking about physical things either.

The differences in learning and memory between men and women are commonly recognized by general population as well as scientists. Males outperform females in spatial mental rotation and navigation tasks, while females often do better on object location or recognition as well as verbal memory tasks. Although it is known that the gender differences in the cognition started from early development stage and last throughout whole life spans, recent studies of people with transsexalism and elite athletes demonstrated that sex hormone treatment and exercised might be able to alter the sterol sex-type cognition. In addition, it is worth to notice that many neurological diseases exhibit sex differences, such as women having a higher prevalence of Alzheimer’s disease, a most common form of dementia in elderly than age-matched men. We believe that better understanding the biology of sex differences in cognitive function will not only provide insight into healthy life style, promoting gender-specific exercise or sports, but also is integral to the development of personalized, gender-specific medicine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266559/

What you just said is flat out wrong. There are many studies that back that up as well.

The present study revealed a number of significant sex differences on the differing cognitive tasks. The sex differences found with response accuracy were less extensive than those found with RT. Importantly, sex did not emerge merely as a significant main effect, but interacted with one or more of the orthogonally manipulated variables. The most important of these was the type of task, in that women performed significantly better than men on the verbal matching task in accord with H1, whereas in contrast to H2, no significant sex difference was observed on the visual-spatial matching task. This interaction between sex and type of task cannot be accounted for by sex differences in general task demands (e.g., speed of responding; Silverman, 2006) because the same stimulus display format and response requirements were used for the verbal and visual-spatial versions of the task. The present experiment shows that sex can have a directional (qualitative) effect on how other independent variables operate (e.g., type of task), rather than merely influencing magnitude (quantitative) effects (Furedy & Pöğün, 2001).

http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1476&context=hss_pubs

Mental abilities and the differences between men and women is well known. Depending on the tasks, women may be ahead or behind men. This is all well known stuff.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
What you just said makes not sense.

How can there be traits that on average benefit one group over another, yet the standard deviation overwhelm the differences? If the standard deviation was wide enough to capture both then the averages would overlap and be the same. We see that they are not.

What do you think you just said?
I don't think you've fully read the memo, and are relying too heavily on the knee jerk narrative layered over it.

Also, disagreement is not an inability to respond. The need for concession is a sign of immaturity.

I believe that frustration with the process and not fundamental prejudice motivated the memo. There are biological differences between the genders. Do those biological differences mean the exclusion of one gender from software development? Of course not. But the author clearly stated that a better implementation of diversity programs could be to leverage biological traits and strengths. That is not an irrational or prejudiced position to take, although it's certainly debatable.

Look at how hard these shits are trying to protect their jobs.

It's a simple fact that the largest developing nation in the world had thousands of years strong absolute patriarchy going, yet in the span of a couple generations sees far better STEM adoption rate with women than the west when even the affluent were forced to raise only-daughters as heirs.

Though to be fair if we're using conservatives as the standard for human brain flexibility they do have a point.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Look at how hard these shits are trying to protect their jobs.

It's a simple fact that the largest developing nation in the world had thousands of years strong absolute patriarchy going, yet in the span of a couple generations sees far better STEM adoption rate with women than the west when even the affluent were forced to raise only-daughters as heirs.

Though to be fair if we're using conservatives as the standard for human brain flexibility they do have a point.

You are adorable.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
See, that simply is not true. Individually women may or may not have traits, but on the average there are things women and me are better at. We are not talking about physical things either.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4266559/

What you just said is flat out wrong. There are many studies that back that up as well.



http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1476&context=hss_pubs

Mental abilities and the differences between men and women is well known. Depending on the tasks, women may be ahead or behind men. This is all well known stuff.

Not to mention black people are not as intelligent as white people but better at athletics.

Right? Because I can provide numerous studies that shows that.

Obviously, going by "science" only white males are suited for almost every job except the ones they don't want, the lower paying jobs... Those are the jobs that women and blacks are suited for, right? I mean, science... right?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
realibrad has high enough iq to stick to socially acceptable misogyny instead of revealing his well-studied opinion about lower ethnicities.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Not to mention black people are not as intelligent as white people but better at athletics.

Right? Because I can provide numerous studies that shows that.

Obviously, going by "science" only white males are suited for almost every job except the ones they don't want, the lower paying jobs... Those are the jobs that women and blacks are suited for, right? I mean, science... right?

Yes, its true that Black people on average have lower IQs than whites, but you have to put that into context. There are multiple factors that influence IQ. It is factually correct to say that Black people on average (in the US) have lower IQ scores, but the cause of this may not be genetic. We don't really allow those studies as it feels too taboo so we just focus on social causes which seems fine to me.

What is your point though?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Look at how hard these shits are trying to protect their jobs.

It's a simple fact that the largest developing nation in the world had thousands of years strong absolute patriarchy going, yet in the span of a couple generations sees far better STEM adoption rate with women than the west when even the affluent were forced to raise only-daughters as heirs.

Though to be fair if we're using conservatives as the standard for human brain flexibility they do have a point.
Citation needed.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Let's not pretend factual reality matters to the sort who'd play too dumb to use google.
What are my search criteria professor? You made an ambiguous claim to generations of patriarchy. I assume you mean China, but it's typically difficult to extract facts from your nonsense.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
Yes, its true that Black people on average have lower IQs than whites, but you have to put that into context. There are multiple factors that influence IQ. It is factually correct to say that Black people on average (in the US) have lower IQ scores, but the cause of this may not be genetic. We don't really allow those studies as it feels too taboo so we just focus on social causes which seems fine to me.

What is your point though?

Into context? Why start now when we have decided that women are neurotic and thus don't want high pressure jobs like being a nurse or a software engineer?

And no you fucking retard, black people on average don't have lower IQ's when adjusted for other factors. IQ tests are quite useless to test intelligence because they are basically pattern recognition tests, do enough of them and you can ace them all (I got into decyption service by doing just that).

When adjusting for other factors such as education blacks and whites score about the same, with a small statistical anomaly that tends to go towards women of both groups and blacks but since it's an anomaly it's not counted.

The entire IDEA that race matters when it comes to intelligence was meant for you to pause and think that maybe this isn't really true but instead you agree with the eugenicists?

Why not just go the Iran route, when women started outperforming men in the universities, as they often do, they banned them from participating.

You know, cuz they be neurotic... Really, mainly for their own good says da man.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
What are my search criteria professor? You made an ambiguous claim to generations of patriarchy. I assume you mean China, but it's typically difficult to extract facts from your nonsense.

This is like mooch level of playing dumb where he had to brag about knowing it all along after pleading ignorance.

You're truly terrible at it for such a regular.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Into context? Why start now when we have decided that women are neurotic and thus don't want high pressure jobs like being a nurse or a software engineer?

And no you fucking retard, black people on average don't have lower IQ's when adjusted for other factors. IQ tests are quite useless to test intelligence because they are basically pattern recognition tests, do enough of them and you can ace them all (I got into decyption service by doing just that).

When adjusting for other factors such as education blacks and whites score about the same, with a small statistical anomaly that tends to go towards women of both groups and blacks but since it's an anomaly it's not counted.

The entire IDEA that race matters when it comes to intelligence was meant for you to pause and think that maybe this isn't really true but instead you agree with the eugenicists?

Why not just go the Iran route, when women started outperforming men in the universities, as they often do, they banned them from participating.

You know, cuz they be neurotic... Really, mainly for their own good says da man.

You are an angry little man. Black people on average have lower IQs than whites. The context I was talking about were the social factors. That is why I said there are multiple factors that go into IQ and said the cause may not be genetic.

Adjusting for your factors does not change the current average. Those factors are important which is why I said focusing on the social factors seems like a good idea to me.

But hey, be mad if you wanna.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
You are an angry little man. Black people on average have lower IQs than whites. The context I was talking about were the social factors. That is why I said there are multiple factors that go into IQ and said the cause may not be genetic.

Adjusting for your factors does not change the current average. Those factors are important which is why I said focusing on the social factors seems like a good idea to me.

But hey, be mad if you wanna.

Neither angry nor little but quite contemptuous of the idiots that think they have science to prove that women as a whole are neurotic or that blacks as a whole have lower intelligence.

Here's some news for you son, women deal with far more pressure as nurses than they do as software engineers and yet they choose that profession to a statistically morbid degree. Why do you think that is? Is it because women are not neurotic in the least and much, MUCH tougher than men or is it because of societal pressure and expectations?

Isn't it the case that if the eugenicists and the sociobiologists had their shit science together then women would be MUCH more suited for things like engineering while all men should go be nurses and other very high pressure jobs?

Your owgambled scientific bullshit doesn't work in your favour when given a second thought you moronic imbecile.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Here is an extremely thorough summary of the relevant science, done by examining numerous meta-studies (incorporating thousands of studies). These summaries of these meta-studies are highlighted in green where they agree with the memo, and in red where they do not.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/0...es-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/

In short - there is a lot of green, and a lot of red. The science is messy and complicated. The author summarizes the finding as, there are some biological differences which affect interests and drive in certain areas, but not so much abilities. Warning: this analysis is too objective for most people. It's just summarizing the science without putting a spin in it.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Here is an extremely thorough summary of the relevant science, done by examining numerous meta-studies (incorporating thousands of studies). These summaries of these meta-studies are highlighted in green where they agree with the memo, and in red where they do not.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/0...es-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/

In short - there is a lot of green, and a lot of red. The science is messy and complicated. The author summarizes the finding as, there are some biological differences which affect interests and drive in certain areas, but not so much abilities. Warning: this analysis is too objective for most people. It's just summarizing the science without putting a spin in it.

This simple table makes the topic more than clear enough: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gender_gaps_in_mathematics_and_reading

The US is near the top, and there are plenty of countries near the bottom. Also interesting:

1. The difference is more pronounced in language skills, precisely the jobs women are often pushed to in the west
2. The reading/math gaps are reverse correlated, pointing to the cultural fluidity of these effects.
 
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