google owning i-bankers

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
seems like they're being pretty dicky about everything. i skipped my entrepreneurship and private equity lectures on IPOs so i can't really comment on whether or not google is being excessive in their control of information.

Wall Street Journal - April 27, 2004

At Google, Mum's the Word
About Almost Everything

By ROBIN SIDEL, MYLENE MANGALINDAN and KEVIN J. DELANEY
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
April 27, 2004; Page B1

Google exists to make information accessible and useful. But when it comes to its initial public stock offering, the Internet-search powerhouse has created an ultrasecretive process the likes of which Wall Street has never seen.

Google Inc. executives banned investment bankers from its Mountain View, Calif., campus last year. Those bankers lucky enough to be briefed on the plans had to sign affidavits swearing they wouldn't leak details to the press. Some early Google investors say they still are in the dark about the IPO plans.

Google is a rare start-up that wields so much power it has insisted on carving its own path through the well-established IPO process. Its distinct culture and desire for control have reshaped the normally staid system, creating tension between the company and its bankers. The company's expected stock offering comes at a time when Wall Street still is recovering from a series of IPO scandals that reduced the number of new offerings after the tech bubble burst, making the bankers more amenable to Google's demands.

Even beyond the IPO, secrecy permeates Google's relations with the outside world. In some ways, the company is like a tease: It reveals just enough information to entice the public and reporters about its operations, yet skimps on the details. Google, for example, won't disclose exactly how many employees it has; "more than 1,000" is the stock answer. Nor will it disclose how many computer servers it deploys to respond to millions of daily search requests; "more than 10,000" is the reply. Outside estimates run closer to 100,000. A Google spokeswoman declined to comment for this article.

Another form of discretion involves the foundation of Google's business: how its computers decide the order in which they display Web links when a user types in a search request. Advertisers and others long have tried to figure out how to make their sites appear higher in the rankings, boosting the likelihood users will click on them. Google guards its formula closely, and updates it from time to time, to make it tougher for outsiders to try to game the system.

Until now, Google has wielded its secrecy as a competitive weapon. "One of the luxuries of being a private company is that we can afford to move in a way that as a public company is much more difficult," Chief Executive Eric Schmidt said in a speech last May.

Founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page have long resisted an IPO -- despite the fact it would make them billionaires -- in part because it will require them to disclose much more to outsiders and rivals, say people familiar with the matter.

A publicly traded Google could be in for some culture shock. For one thing, the company will have to disclose for the first time how much money it makes, and from whom. Moreover, going public will subject its headstrong founders to questioning by a broad pool of investors.

"Google has a very big secrecy problem and a really big communications challenge if they go public without having resolved that," says Matthew Berk, an independent Internet industry analyst in New York. Google advertisers perennially complain about how hard it is to get information out of the company. And some business partners and would-be partners have said its opaque operations have hindered efforts to work with it.

In late 2002, Karen Howe, managing director of Singingfish, a search engine that specializes in finding audio and video information on the Web, approached Google, seeking to connect her company's technology to Google's. In an interview last November, Ms. Howe said she found it "hard to find the right person to talk to." The companies never did a deal, and Singingfish was acquired last fall by Time Warner Inc.'s America Online unit. "It's not the easiest maze to negotiate," she said of Google. Today, she says AOL's partnership with Google means that's no longer a problem for her.

The company is still clinging to its closeted ways as it moves through the process that would bare its inner workings for the first time. By Thursday, Google is expected to disclose details about its finances under a Securities and Exchange Commission rule governing closely held companies with more than 500 shareholders. Many expect that disclosure to come in the form of an IPO filing.

Wall Street deal makers, jostling to win a lucrative role in preparing the IPO, have found the process pretty rough going. Last September, Google representatives called about a dozen investment banks and asked their officials to sign confidentiality agreements within 24 hours. Then, Google sent the banks a list of detailed questions about the firms' history in underwriting public offerings, including the performance of those stocks and how the banks had distributed IPO shares, according to people who have seen the questionnaire. Google also sought advice on the timing of an IPO and how bankers would value the company.

While Google asked the banks for a lot of information, it offered little in return. In a highly unusual move, Google didn't hand over any financial data. Instead, bankers had to rely on assumptions derived from other Internet companies, as well as their own estimates about Google's business, to project a value for the company. "It was an incredible hassle," said one banker who worked on a pitch.

In October, Google interviewed prospective underwriters -- including Wall Street powerhouses Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, Citigroup Inc., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. -- at the Palo Alto, Calif., office of law firm Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati. Google Chief Financial Officer George Reyes, General Counsel David C. Drummond and other executives grilled the bankers on everything from estimated IPO valuations to prospective timing for an offering, according to people who attended the meetings. Also attending was Lise Buyer, a former Wall Street analyst and portfolio manager hired by Google last year and now a member of the IPO committee.

Throughout the process, Google barred the Wall Street firms from discussing IPO prospects, internally or with people outside their firms. Only a small number of bankers at each firm are involved in the IPO process; even top-level managers aren't allowed to review IPO documents. The company has sent investment bankers stern letters reminding them to keep tight-lipped about the process. At least twice, when media reports surfaced about a possible IPO, Google has required bankers to submit sworn statements affirming they hadn't discussed the subject with reporters.

Meanwhile, Google told its prospective bankers little. Ms. Buyer warned one investment bank after its October presentation not to wait. "It'll be at least a couple of days until we let you know," she said, according to one person who was there. But days turned into months. "I haven't seen anything like this at all, where there's no communication," one person involved in the process said in January.

The banking thaw broke again about a month ago. Google summoned representative of four banks to Wilson Sonsini's offices, and told Credit Suisse First Boston and Morgan Stanley that they had been tapped to lead the offering, according to people familiar with the matter. Goldman Sachs and Citigroup were told they would have secondary roles, these people say.

Then, about two weeks ago, Google notified a second group of banks of their roles in the planned IPO. At the same time, bankers have been paranoid about whether Google is really showing them its hand. Some worry that company executives have deliberately supplied them with misinformation to see whether they would leak it.

The tight control has flummoxed the bankers accustomed to working closely with a company on an IPO. "Here, the bank is seen as a tool in the process as opposed to a partner," said someone familiar with the situation. Indeed, Google still hasn't given even basic financial data to most of the banks it has hired.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Google, for example, won't disclose exactly how many employees it has; "more than 1,000" is the stock answer. Nor will it disclose how many computer servers it deploys to respond to millions of daily search requests; "more than 10,000" is the reply. Outside estimates run closer to 100,000.
:Q

Damn. I guess I never really thought about it.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: rpc64
How could they have 100,000 servers?? That's insane!

How is it that you can search for radiactive properties of an apple and the search for "boobies" within seconds, and get a million + results for each?

They have a Sh!tload of servers.
 

johnjbruin

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2001
4,401
1
0
Originally posted by: rpc64
How could they have 100,000 servers?? That's insane!

ever heard of server-farms... thats what they literally are... many many computers - and that is more that thousands of computers - chugging along all the time.

it will be nice to see how the whole google story evolves.

maybe g-mail was a trick on part of google to get that last bit of juice into the bomb that will explode when they do go public...
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
If *I* was running the network we could do it twice as fast with half as much.......

At least that would be my sales pitch
 

They're a privately held company. Until their stock is offered publicly, they can do whatever the hell they want. I don't see what the big deal is; this writer makes it seem like Google is required to tell us anything and everything about its business model. Search is a big business. Why should Google give away all its secrets?
 

Cable God

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
3,251
0
71
Originally posted by: Mill
Almost makes me worry that they don't have any substance.

I know what you mean, but, I for one, HAVE laid eyes upon about 10k of their servers. It's sort of like this, you walk around a corner in the DC and you see mountains upon mountains of racks with the Google logo on them and the sheer monstrosity of it puts us geeks into an aweish stupor. I can't disclose the DC name, but it is a rather large one, and the most advanced one I have ever saw or had the pleasure to be in.
 

Doggiedog

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
12,780
5
81
Originally posted by: cablegod
Originally posted by: Mill
Almost makes me worry that they don't have any substance.

I know what you mean, but, I for one, HAVE laid eyes upon about 10k of their servers. It's sort of like this, you walk around a corner in the DC and you see mountains upon mountains of racks with the Google logo on them and the sheer monstrosity of it puts us geeks into an aweish stupor. I can't disclose the DC name, but it is a rather large one, and the most advanced one I have ever saw or had the pleasure to be in.

Cablegod hears a knock on his door.

Then silence.
 

Doggiedog

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
12,780
5
81
Google Co-Founder Still Lives Modestly.

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - One co-founder of Google may be on the verge of pulling in billions of dollars with the most anticipated public offering in years, but he continues to live modestly, his Russian emigre father said on Monday.


"He does not have much money, I do not have much money," Michael Brin, father of Google President Sergey Brin, said in an interview.


"He is renting a two-bedroom apartment, he drives a Toyota Prius," he said of the hybrid gas-electric car that sells for around $20,000.


The elder Brin set the stage for his son's classic American success story by emigrating from the Soviet Union in 1979. The mathematician father had worked as an economist with an institute of the Communist planning agency Gosplan.


"Most of that time I devoted to proving that the Russian living standards were much, much higher than the American living standards. How about that?" Michael Brin told Reuters.


How did he show such progress under Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev in what is now called the 'years of stagnation'?


"I know a lot about numbers," said Brin, who earned 185 roubles a month after a decade on the job. "I wasn't very precise. It was that in the immediate future they were going to be way higher."


Because of discrimination against Jews, Michael Brin and his wife, a mathematician working as a civil engineer, left in 1979 with their young son Sergey. Michael Brin got a job at the University of Maryland mathematics department where he still teaches, and thought his son might follow in his footsteps, as he had followed his father before him.


NO 'TITAN OF INDUSTRY' EXPECTATIONS


"I left because of myself and because of his (Sergey's) future. I didn't want him to be in the same situation as I was," Michael Brin said by telephone. "Did we expect him to become, what's it called -- Time Magazine calls him a 'titan of industry'? No, I had no idea. I expected him to get his Ph.D and to become somebody, maybe a professor."


Sergey is now on leave from Stanford where he was trying to get a doctoral degree. Instead, he set up Google, the world's No. 1 Internet search engine that is widely expected to announce this week that it plans to go public.


Despite the praise for Google's technological innovations, Sergey Brin can hardly savor the moment, his father said.


"He has many problems. There are lawsuits, there is a controversy with the (anti-Semitic) Jewwatch Web site," he said. "There are many things he has to handle. I don't think he has the time to reflect on what's happening to him."


"He cannot avoid it now. He is responsible for what he created and he has to keep moving it forward. He cannot just disappear or retire," he continued. "It will take a few more years before the situation is stable enough for him to transfer at least a part of his responsibilities to other people."


But this is, after all, sunny California, so there has to be at least some time to enjoy the great outdoors.


"I called him recently, it was two days ago. He was roller-blading on the campus of Stanford University. He was with (fellow co-founder) Larry Page and his girlfriend," Michael Brin said. "They were just roller-blading. They were not discussing world important issues or something like that."
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: cablegod
Originally posted by: Mill
Almost makes me worry that they don't have any substance.

I know what you mean, but, I for one, HAVE laid eyes upon about 10k of their servers. It's sort of like this, you walk around a corner in the DC and you see mountains upon mountains of racks with the Google logo on them and the sheer monstrosity of it puts us geeks into an aweish stupor. I can't disclose the DC name, but it is a rather large one, and the most advanced one I have ever saw or had the pleasure to be in.

I don't doubt that at all, but lots of companies know how to use credit effectively. I guess I should have clarified what I meant. To me, it is possible that Google isn't the company that everyone thinks it is. Or it could be 10x what any investor dreamed of. I just find the secrecy to be scary to me, because I can't remember a time when secrecy and business were beneficial to all involved. I'm just thinking there is a chance that Google is bordering on failure, and the IPO is the chance to get much needed cash. I for one have noticed that Google's search results suck as of late. Getting hard to find stuff. Lets say you search for Panasonic Cordless phones... you might get 50 results of www.panasonic-phones-cordless-cheap-free-freexxx-freeporn-satan.com. Which of course is a pointless page filled with adware.
 

Ogg

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2003
4,829
1
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: cablegod
Originally posted by: Mill
Almost makes me worry that they don't have any substance.

I know what you mean, but, I for one, HAVE laid eyes upon about 10k of their servers. It's sort of like this, you walk around a corner in the DC and you see mountains upon mountains of racks with the Google logo on them and the sheer monstrosity of it puts us geeks into an aweish stupor. I can't disclose the DC name, but it is a rather large one, and the most advanced one I have ever saw or had the pleasure to be in.

Getting hard to find stuff. Lets say you search for Panasonic Cordless phones... you might get 50 results of www.panasonic-phones-cordless-cheap-free-freexxx-freeporn-satan.com. Which of course is a pointless page filled with adware.

good point, I have spent so much time lately rolling through these pages looking for specific products only to find they all go back to the same place, i.e. Amazon referrals......:roll:
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: cablegod
Originally posted by: Mill
Almost makes me worry that they don't have any substance.

I know what you mean, but, I for one, HAVE laid eyes upon about 10k of their servers. It's sort of like this, you walk around a corner in the DC and you see mountains upon mountains of racks with the Google logo on them and the sheer monstrosity of it puts us geeks into an aweish stupor. I can't disclose the DC name, but it is a rather large one, and the most advanced one I have ever saw or had the pleasure to be in.

I don't doubt that at all, but lots of companies know how to use credit effectively. I guess I should have clarified what I meant. To me, it is possible that Google isn't the company that everyone thinks it is. Or it could be 10x what any investor dreamed of. I just find the secrecy to be scary to me, because I can't remember a time when secrecy and business were beneficial to all involved. I'm just thinking there is a chance that Google is bordering on failure, and the IPO is the chance to get much needed cash. I for one have noticed that Google's search results suck as of late. Getting hard to find stuff. Lets say you search for Panasonic Cordless phones... you might get 50 results of www.panasonic-phones-cordless-cheap-free-freexxx-freeporn-satan.com. Which of course is a pointless page filled with adware.
true, so true. :|


=|
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
Originally posted by: MikePanic
either way... i seriously need to save some money so if they do IPO i can get in
your purchase price will probably be overvalued. who knows though? google might turn into the next microsoft and start making video game consoles in 10 years.


=|
 

TekChik

Senior member
Jan 15, 2003
839
0
0
good...you guys all stay away from the IPO, then.

more for me

there's a pretty good article in April's MAXIMUM PC magazine on Google. It goes into the technical aspects of how Google handles searchs. the only person they talked to at Google was "an anonymous insider".

i'd post a link, but the article isn't on their website.

-TekChik
 

Shelly21

Diamond Member
May 28, 2002
4,111
1
0
I can only think of a handful of .com IPO's that the stock got higher after IPO, Yahoo, Ebay, Paypal...etc

And I think Google will be one of them.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: MikePanic
either way... i seriously need to save some money so if they do IPO i can get in
The shares will be hideously overpriced by the time you have a chance to buy them.

If you must buy shares of google, you really should wait until after the first price crash. Just because you like a company it doesn't make it a good investment.
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
Originally posted by: Shelly21
I can only think of a handful of .com IPO's that the stock got higher after IPO, Yahoo, Ebay, Paypal...etc

And I think Google will be one of them.
well, i definitely think google will be one of them. still though, i can't help but be somewhat skeptical - all this secrecy makes me feel a little uneasy, and i'm not even investing in them!


=|
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
I for one have noticed that Google's search results suck as of late. Getting hard to find stuff. Lets say you search for Panasonic Cordless phones... you might get 50 results of www.panasonic-phones-cordless-cheap-free-freexxx-freeporn-satan.com. Which of course is a pointless page filled with adware.
Google sells information on how to get your site listed near the top of its searches. I also believe that the basic premise of google's search technology is way overrated. It relies on site links being valuable but so many site authors are hardly linking anything or have links that are years old.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Microsoft and Yahoo are planning to spend immense amounts of money to take customers away from google -- if they are even partially successful then the high rates google charges now for targeted advertising could drop way down.

Especially if Microsoft follows its standard procedure of
- abusing its monopoly to tie MS Search into the OS and browser while locking out competitors
- subsidizing their market grab with billions in monopoly profits.

MS could easily offer their competing targeted ads for next to nothing, losing money but also forcing google to cut their prices, i.e. "cutting off their oxygen" just like MS did to Netscape by offering IE and IIS for "free."
 
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