GOP ACA Replacement Imminent....Predictions

[pcgeek11]

Another developmentally disabled point in your post that others have skipped. They lost control very shortly after they first passed it, and long before it started taking effect. I have an idea: how about you stick to talking about things you understand? Sure, your post count will drop dramatically, but on the plus side, people might forget you're an idiot eventually.

It was unsustainable when they passed it and they knew it going in.

Gruber: “Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” said Gruber. “Basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.”

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes.” Why? Because “if CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies.” And yet, the president himself openly insisted that the individual mandate — what you must pay the government if you fail to buy health insurance — was not a tax.

Obama: “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”

 

[fskimospy]

It was unsustainable when they passed it and they knew it going in.

Of course they didn't know it was unsustainable because it isn't unsustainable. The only sources you will are making that claim are in right wing media.

The ACA isn't perfect and could definitely use some reforms but it's a perfectly sustainable framework for health insurance. I don't know where you got the idea otherwise but my guess is it's from the endlessly repeated mantra of right wing politicians and right wing media, not objective analysis.

 

[pcgeek11]

Of course they didn't know it was unsustainable because it isn't unsustainable. The only sources you will are making that claim are in right wing media.

The ACA isn't perfect and could definitely use some reforms but it's a perfectly sustainable framework for health insurance. I don't know where you got the idea otherwise but my guess is it's from the endlessly repeated mantra of right wing politicians and right wing media, not objective analysis.

http://nypost.com/2017/05/10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-that-plans-to-pull-out-of-obamacare/

How can it sustain itself when it will eventually run out of insurers.

Then in that case I think the GOP should just leave it as is and see what happens.

 

[fskimospy]

http://nypost.com/2017/05/10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-that-plans-to-pull-out-of-obamacare/

How can it sustain itself when it will eventually run out of insurers.

Then in that case I think the GOP should just leave it as is and see what happens.

It will not eventually run out of insurers. No objective analysis thinks that.

As for the GOP just leaving it as it is I am 100% in favor of that as the law would be fine. That should also mean that they stop actively attempting to sabotage it though, correct? GOP sabotage has been cited by insurers as one of the primary obstacles they are facing.

This is a pretty twisted position for you to hold though. If you genuinely believe the law will collapse on its own you're basically saying the GOP should allow millions to suffer to achieve political advantage. That's pretty horrendous.

 

[pcgeek11]

It will not eventually run out of insurers. No objective analysis thinks that.

As for the GOP just leaving it as it is I am 100% in favor of that as the law would be fine. That should also mean that they stop actively attempting to sabotage it though, correct? GOP sabotage has been cited by insurers as one of the primary obstacles they are facing.

This is a pretty twisted position for you to hold though. If you genuinely believe the law will collapse on its own you're basically saying the GOP should allow millions to suffer to achieve political advantage. That's pretty horrendous.

Yes, I agree that they should not sabotage it.

No, you are wrong. You said it is self supporting and will be fine, then I said in that case the GOP should just leave it as such. Nothing horrendous about it. I wished no one any ill will.

Just for honesty, millions are going to suffer regardless of what the health care law says. Millions are suffering now. There will always be those that refuse to do what is best for themselves.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, I agree that they should not sabotage it.

No, you are wrong. You said it is self supporting and will be fine, then I said in that case the GOP should just leave it as such. Nothing horrendous about it. I wished no one any ill will.

Fair enough!

Just for honesty, millions are going to suffer regardless of what the health care law says. Millions are suffering now. There will always be those that refuse to do what is best for themselves.

I should have amended it to being millions more will suffer.

 

[pcgeek11]

Fair enough!



I should have amended it to being millions more will suffer.

That is a pure guess... I'm not saying they won't as I have no crystal ball. The CBO has been off the mark for quite some time now.

 

[ivwshane]

That is a pure guess... I'm not saying they won't as I have no crystal ball. The CBO has been off the mark for quite some time now.

You think the CBO will be off by 22 million people? That seems like quite the stretch.

 

[fskimospy]

That is a pure guess... I'm not saying they won't as I have no crystal ball. The CBO has been off the mark for quite some time now.

The CBO's projections were actually pretty accurate when it came to the ACA. The idea that they were not is another myth that's been pushed by conservative lawmakers and media.

Projecting the effects of complex legislation years out is extremely difficult, but if you're willing to accept some uncertainty the CBO has performed well. I'm sure CBO projections of the Republican plan are not totally accurate but they are probably reasonably close.

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/cbos-obamacare-predictions-how-accurate/

 

[K1052]

If Portman is fighting with McConnell they're a lot more than a few votes short.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/29/portman-mcconnell-health-care-repeal-240057

 

[Thump553]

Apparently Lindsay Graham saying that either they figure this out by Friday that single party talks are over. More threats of a bipartisan fix.

That would be great, and something the GOP should have participated in a decade ago. Implementation of the ACA was a huge endeavor, one bound to have problems appear when theory and plans actually hit reality. In fact the last major GOP effort to kill the ACA in the Supreme Court was basically arguing what was an obvious drafting error in the ACA, the sort of thing that is usually routinely taken care of with a technical correction bill. But there has been ABSOLUTELY NO corrections or amendments to the ACA ever because of GOP intransigence. How many of you are running software that hasn't been patched even once in the last decade? Should our government operate in this way? Dysfunctional Congress is a the cause of problem.

Without a doubt McConnell will try to polish this turd enough to ram it through, trying to buy off a couple of senators in secret back room negotiations. The public should not back down in large and vocal opposition to this crass mess.

 

[K1052]

Without a doubt McConnell will try to polish this turd enough to ram it through, trying to buy off a couple of senators in secret back room negotiations. The public should not back down in large and vocal opposition to this crass mess.

The problem is that he needs more than a couple. He might need 10-20 many of whom hold opposing wants. The gulf may simply be too large.

 

[K1052]

Oh and this morning President Dump Truck is leveling personal sexist insults at Mika Brzezinski on twitter.

Maybe he should have another sit down with Murkowski and convince her that even though the bill defunds PP (one of her major reasons to vote NO) that he's really on the side of women lol. Good luck with Collins too.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That would be great, and something the GOP should have participated in a decade ago. Implementation of the ACA was a huge endeavor, one bound to have problems appear when theory and plans actually hit reality. In fact the last major GOP effort to kill the ACA in the Supreme Court was basically arguing what was an obvious drafting error in the ACA, the sort of thing that is usually routinely taken care of with a technical correction bill. But there has been ABSOLUTELY NO corrections or amendments to the ACA ever because of GOP intransigence. How many of you are running software that hasn't been patched even once in the last decade? Should our government operate in this way? Dysfunctional Congress is a the cause of problem.

Without a doubt McConnell will try to polish this turd enough to ram it through, trying to buy off a couple of senators in secret back room negotiations. The public should not back down in large and vocal opposition to this crass mess.

I heard an hour ago on TV a Republican Senator from NC(?) say he'd be very happy with letting this go and and bring up a new bill with 30 moderate Rs and 30 moderate Ds that tackles medical tort reform, Medicare drug prices and something else that I forgot. He was fine either drafting something new or modifying ACA he really didn't care he just wants to tackle the obvious stuff first
*not his exact words*

Edit: he was a Democrat

 

[Stokely]

The GOP can leave the ACA to limp along...or repeal it. EITHER WAY they are responsible for the state of health care moving forward, regardless of how much blame they try to pawn off on everyone else. I fully expect that the base will go along with them, but my hope is that the squishy middle will hold them accountable. They can say the Democrats are obstructing them...well what were you doing the last 6 years you clowns? I hope every single one of these MFers gets voted out, though I have no real expectation that it'll happen.

They've had YEARS to identify the flaws in the ACA and come up with fixes for them...especially if those fixes involve not sabotaging the damn thing.
Alternatively, they've had those same years to construct something from scratch.

Instead, it's damn obvious they cobbled this together in an "oh shit" moment when it dawned on these bozos that they are on the clock. I've seen NFL teams botch the draft (hell my Vikings were late running their pick up......that's a good look, guys), well this seems about the same to me. I read someone state that the first GOP attempt read like a couple interns wrote it up over a long weekend....and this current one isn't that much different.

 

[Thump553]

The problem is that he needs more than a couple. He might need 10-20 many of whom hold opposing wants. The gulf may simply be too large.

It's funny how this sort of thing works in Washington, but if he is close then the pressure ramps up on all GOP senators to toe the party line. If you are the 48th, 49th, etc. to fall into place the pressure is enormous. If it is clear that the GOP can't get the 50 votes, then nearly every GOP senator with the slightest beef (or the slightest worry that a yes vote will come back to bite him/her come the next election) will vote against it. I've seen projections that if McConnell pushed it to a vote this week that he would have ended up with approximately 20 yes votes-a true disaster to his leadership standing. No way he was going to risk that to massage Trump's ego.

But I'm still very worried this zombie bill will come alive again through secret back room negotiations-just like the House bill did. The public should keep up the pressure to remind these people that they are elected representatives.

 

[K1052]

It's funny how this sort of thing works in Washington, but if he is close then the pressure ramps up on all GOP senators to toe the party line. If you are the 48th, 49th, etc. to fall into place the pressure is enormous. If it is clear that the GOP can't get the 50 votes, then nearly every GOP senator with the slightest beef (or the slightest worry that a yes vote will come back to bite him/her come the next election) will vote against it. I've seen projections that if McConnell pushed it to a vote this week that he would have ended up with approximately 20 yes votes-a true disaster to his leadership standing. No way he was going to risk that to massage Trump's ego.

But I'm still very worried this zombie bill will come alive again through secret back room negotiations-just like the House bill did. The public should keep up the pressure to remind these people that they are elected representatives.

Lindsay Graham previously said the bill would either pass or fail by a lot of votes. Looking more like the latter is likely.

One of the core arguments to get the House moderates to come along is that the bill would be dramatically changed in the Senate so just vote yes anyway. Arguably the Senate bill is just as shitty as the House bill, perhaps more so with the deeper long term Medicaid cuts. The Senate does not have this same luxury.

 

[trenchfoot]

So now there's talk from GOP leadership about bringing in the Democrats to get something out the door.

My my my said the spider to the fly...........

edit - And what's so absolutely hilarious about the Senate Repubs tripping over their tongues on this crisis of theirs is how I recall their making mention how they were going to "do this right" and "we're going to take our time and be thorough" and all of that other horseshit they were slinging around after the Repubs in the House tossed that hot coal over to them.

Yeah, riiiiiight. lol

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So now there's talk from GOP leadership about bringing in the Democrats to get something out the door.

My my my said the spider to the fly...........

edit - And what's so absolutely hilarious about the Senate Repubs tripping over their tongues on this crisis of theirs is how I recall their making mention how they were going to "do this right" and "we're going to take our time and be thorough" and all of that other horseshit they were slinging around after the Repubs in the House tossed that hot coal over to them.

Yeah, riiiiiight. lol

Not sure what the point is anymore. By the time it's changed enough that the Democrats will accept it, it won't be acceptable to republicans or their constituents, so screw it, let it ride and find something useful to do rather than tilting at windmills.

 

[K1052]

The Dems will never help them pass this bill. It has to go down in flames before there can be any thought about a bipartisan process.

In the end the Rs will need actual fixes to the ACA passed through a traditional process. Every indication is that any problems with HC will be laid squarely at their feet since they control everything. Trump's "let Obamacare implode" plan of passive sabotage is a politically terrible idea.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The Dems will never help them pass this bill. It has to go down in flames before there can be any thought about a bipartisan process.

In the end the Rs will need actual fixes to the ACA passed through a traditional process. Every indication is that any problems with HC will be laid squarely at their feet since they control everything. Trump's "let Obamacare implode" plan of passive sabotage is a politically terrible idea.

Someone should have reminded them that passively sabotaging healthcare while they're the ones in office isn't going to do anything but make them look like big 'ol wet shitstains. The options at this point are a) actually work with Democrats on a real HC bill/replacement/upgraydde or b) let it rot, and let the public opinion of their tribe continue to falter to irrelevancy.

 

[dainthomas]

You think the CBO will be off by 22 million people? That seems like quite the stretch.

CBO is fake news! Just like AMA, March of Dimes, American Nurses Association etc etc etc.

 

[pcgeek11]

Not sure what the point is anymore. By the time it's changed enough that the Democrats will accept it, it won't be acceptable to republicans or their constituents, so screw it, let it ride and find something useful to do rather than tilting at windmills.

I agree with you 100%. The whole lot are just a pack of idiots. Yes, Both Parties.

 

[pcgeek11]

You think the CBO will be off by 22 million people? That seems like quite the stretch.

I didn't say that.

 

[agent00f]

I agree with you 100%. The whole lot are just a pack of idiots. Yes, Both Parties.

Sure, professional politicians are idiots and objectively low edu/iq dunning kruger posterkids are the smart ones.