GOP ACA Replacement Imminent....Predictions

[K1052]

Oh it is how legislation's done. We debate it and then vote on it

Really?

You craft a bill in secret under reconciliation rules which you go on to violate, spring it upon your caucus (not to mention the county), have no hearings, have no markup, have no debate, fail to muster the votes for it, then craft a shell bill to get onto a floor debate with no road map of what to do other than vote on the proposals that aren't going to pass, and pray that some sort of unknown compromise materializes where none has existed.

If that's regular order I want whatever you are smoking. This is the process McCain railed against before plunging both hands into it.

 

[fskimospy]

We can't blame them for active steps to sabotage it? Who am I kidding you'll stay in the land of denial.

He has constantly complained about how there are no insurance companies in the exchange for his county and then repeatedly refused to address the fact that the last insurer explicitly mentioned Republican sabotage as one of their reasons for leaving. I think this shows pretty obviously that he is not engaging in debate honestly, either because he doesn't want to be honest with you or because he can't be honest with himself.

 

[Jhhnn]

You either can't read or you just aren't getting it. Subsidies do no good if there are no insurance companies on the exchange. I'm really tired of repeating that

Which hasn't happened yet, not in a way that actually matters. Open enrollment for 2018 doesn't begin until Nov 1 2017. If congressional Repubs still insist on screwing you when that day comes I'm sure you'll find somebody else to blame.

 

[Sea Ray]

We can't blame them for active steps to sabotage it? Who am I kidding you'll stay in the land of denial.

That's spin on your part. Were I as partisan I'd say that the Dems are sabotaging the current healthcare legislation. Republicans believe Obamacare is a failed model. They want to kill it.

 

[Sea Ray]

Which hasn't happened yet, not in a way that actually matters. Open enrollment for 2018 doesn't begin until Nov 1 2017. If congressional Repubs still insist on screwing you when that day comes I'm sure you'll find somebody else to blame.

Yeah, I'll blame Obamacare which will be the law of the land at that point

 

[senseamp]

If insurance markets collapse, the party in power will be hammered in the next election, and rightly so. GOP owns health care now.

 

[Sea Ray]

If insurance markets collapse, the party in power will be hammered in the next election, and rightly so. GOP owns health care now.

They feel the urgency. If nothing gets passed it won't be for lack of trying. Obamacare is a huge mess

 

[Pens1566]

Nice to see McCain say he'll vote no on the actual bill, then later in the evening actually vote for it.

 

[senseamp]

They feel the urgency. If nothing gets passed it won't be for lack of trying. Obamacare is a huge mess

Nice try is not going to cut it with the voters.

 

[Stokely]

I wonder why the ACA is a "huge mess".
I wonder why both parties didn't actually work together to craft a better plan than the ACA.
I wonder why the GOP didn't spend the last 7 or so years to come up with a much better plan, and not ACA-lite.
I wonder why the GOP doesn't work on the flaws in the ACA.
I wonder why the Democrats would not be eager to work with the party that has done nothing but try to tear down the ACA from the start.

Actually, I don't need to wonder any of these things.

 

[senseamp]

Nice to see McCain say he'll vote no on the actual bill, then later in the evening actually vote for it.

McCain's hypocrisy knows no bounds. You would think that when faced with impending death he would stop living a fraud.

 

[Sea Ray]

I wonder why the ACA is a "huge mess".
I wonder why both parties didn't actually work together to craft a better plan than the ACA.
I wonder why the GOP didn't spend the last 7 or so years to come up with a much better plan, and not ACA-lite.
I wonder why the GOP doesn't work on the flaws in the ACA.
I wonder why the Democrats would not be eager to work with the party that has done nothing but try to tear down the ACA from the start.

Actually, I don't need to wonder any of these things.

Probably the same reason both parties won't work together now to craft healthcare legislation

 

[senseamp]

Republicans haven't even held a hearing on health care reform yet. They are just trying to sabotage Obamacare, not pass something better.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's spin on your part. Were I as partisan I'd say that the Dems are sabotaging the current healthcare legislation. Republicans believe Obamacare is a failed model. They want to kill it.

Conservatives believe in a lot of lies. If the ACA is a failure then why are an additional 20M people covered?

The ACA obviously works largely as intended & would work even better w/o Repub sabotage.

It's all about tax cuts at the top & then holding on to them as long as Repubs can manage it. That's all they care about beyond getting re-elected.

 

[zinfamous]

Not at all. I imagine he wants to improve the bill and this is how it's done.

Pretty much the exact same stable of repubs spent the previous 6-7 years voting unanimously, over and over and over again, to do exactly what they don't want to do right now. You know why? Because they knew that it would never pass. It was all show. Now, they are terrified of the awful, factual consequences of the lies that they have been spewing now that they have the power to do exactly what they promised to do, gaslighted their supporters into voting them to do, and only ever blamed the evil democrats and evil Kenyan non-American Obama in preventing them from doing.

Do you know dishonesty and profound corruption when you see it? Does it not make you sick?

 

[zinfamous]

Did McCain say in the big speech yesterday that he wouldn't vote for the bill for final passage at this point, only the MTP?

If so, he's a damn liar as he voted for the repeal and replace option....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/us/politics/senate-votes-repeal-obamacare.html

brain cancer is a hell of a disease.

 

[brycejones]

That's spin on your part. Were I as partisan I'd say that the Dems are sabotaging the current healthcare legislation. Republicans believe Obamacare is a failed model. They want to kill it.

I'll take this as more denial combined with a side of buckshatting. You blocked the guy who kept trying to explain it to you over and over again.

 

[Stokely]

Probably the same reason both parties won't work together now to craft healthcare legislation

Actually, I see some Democratic efforts for plans are out there. Perhaps we'll see some cross-party cooperation on those!

I'm no fan of the Democrats or a member of their party, but what on earth do they gain from working with the GOP? They and the ACA have been shit on for years by a party whose supporters see cross-party cooperation as a fatal weakness. Now the GOP trots out a lazy, horrible version of the ACA and they join hands and sing songs about it? The only good response is: "The ACA has flaws but it is better in almost every way from what you are putting out there. We won't support it."

Perhaps if the GOP can actually come up with a good-faith effort at a real healthcare plan the "other side" might be willing to join them. I won't hold my breath on them coming up with anything. They've had many years to do so, I doubt a few weeks is going to make much difference. They can't even agree amongst themselves, with two sides of their own party unwilling to agree on some key things.

 

[Sea Ray]

Actually, I see some Democratic efforts for plans are out there. Perhaps we'll see some cross-party cooperation on those!

I'm no fan of the Democrats or a member of their party, but what on earth do they gain from working with the GOP? They and the ACA have been shit on for years by a party whose supporters see cross-party cooperation as a fatal weakness. Now the GOP trots out a lazy, horrible version of the ACA and they join hands and sing songs about it? The only good response is: "The ACA has flaws but it is better in almost every way from what you are putting out there. We won't support it."

Perhaps if the GOP can actually come up with a good-faith effort at a real healthcare plan the "other side" might be willing to join them. I won't hold my breath on them coming up with anything. They've had many years to do so, I doubt a few weeks is going to make much difference. They can't even agree amongst themselves, with two sides of their own party unwilling to agree on some key things.

The only thing the ACA was good at was redistributing money to give healthcare to 20M Americans. It did nothing to make healthcare affordable and it's now collapsing upon itself. Many of those 20M will lose their care if insurers don't come back to the individual market

 

[brycejones]

The only thing the ACA was good at was redistributing money to give healthcare to 20M American

See redistribution works, now to move on to single payer.

 

[K1052]

Word is that the Senate is closing in on consensus for the skinny repeal that will take out the mandates/medical device tax. Next stop a vote this week and then conference committee to iron out the differences between a water buffalo (House bill) and a stapler (Senate bill).

 

[fskimospy]

The only thing the ACA was good at was redistributing money to give healthcare to 20M Americans. It did nothing to make healthcare affordable and it's now collapsing upon itself. Many of those 20M will lose their care if insurers don't come back to the individual market

Literally no objective, empirical analysis agrees with what you just said.

You're making things up to justify your position, which is irrational.

 

[Engineer]

Literally no objective, empirical analysis agrees with what you just said.

You're making things up to justify your position, which is irrational.

@fskimospy....quoted you to get the message through. He has you blocked (unless he's removed the block).

 

[fskimospy]

@fskimospy....quoted you to get the message through. He has you blocked (unless he's removed the block).

Haha, I told him that previously when he made the same false claims before and it had no effect. (clearly, as he's still making the same false claims now) It's not really to talk to him as he is unreachable, it's just to not let them stand as if they were true.

 

[fskimospy]

So about that 'skinny repeal' that removes the mandates but basically keeps everything else. This has been tried before and led directly to the collapse of insurance markets:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...n-1993-may-offer-lesson-for-obamacare-repeal/

The 1995 Legislature repealed most of it, including the individual mandate to carry health insurance. But they kept the ban on denying insurance for pre-existing conditions, known in insurance-speak as “guaranteed issue” — you’re guaranteed to be offered insurance, regardless of your health.

“Republicans came in, and they decided to gut the bill, not dissimilar to right now,” said Dr. Bob Crittenden, an aide to Gov. Jay Inslee, who, working for then-Gov. Booth Gardner, wrote the original version of the health-care bill. “They took out the mandate and left the guaranteed issue. The market went into a tailspin one-and-a-half years later.”

The defanged health-care law cratered the market for individual insurance policies (as opposed to employer-provided insurance or government-provided insurance, like Medicare and Medicaid, which was largely unaffected).

By 1998, three years after the changes to the law went through, 17 of the 19 insurers selling individual policies in Washington had left the state, according to a study by an insurance-industry group.

By 1999, it was impossible to buy an individual policy in Washington. Every insurer had pulled out.

So despite direct evidence of the effects of what they are trying to pass here, they are trying to pass it anyway. This isn't just stupid, this is insane.