GOP frak up looming in NY-23rd- rise of the extremists

[Lemon law]

I think we are all making too much of the upstate New York Race, where one radical right candidate has forced out a more liberal Republican. And even if we acknowledge that voices like Limbaugh advocate a republican purge of moderates, we still have to realize that those people calling themselves Republicans voted overwhelmingly against the very candidates Limbaugh advocated in 2008.

Nor do I think that the Governor races in New Jersey and Virgina will form any kind of national trend. Six months is an eternity in politics, and right now the GOP can talk in vague terms about what their future vision is, the time for that is fast ending for the GOP.

With the start of the primary elections of 2010 just around the corner, the GOP is going to have to stand for something other than no, no, and no to any changes. And field a set of candidates that stand for something the GOP has not yet articulated.

And while I am confident a few radical right candidates like Hoffman will prevail in the GOP primaries, unless they can hold GOP moderates and even attract some conservative democrats, those GOP types running to the far right are almost certain to go down in the general elections in 11/2010.

I also predict the American public will tire at GOP obstruction of the very change they voted for in 11/2008, and any Obama successes meanwhile will just accelerate that trend. Meanwhile the bluedog democrats that have been partly to blame in also obstructing Obama initiatives will wake up and smell the coffee, and realize they have to have something to show their supporters come 11/2010. And do it what it takes to run to the slight left of their GOP counterparts.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I think we are all making too much of the upstate New York Race, where one radical right candidate has forced out a more liberal Republican. And even if we acknowledge that voices like Limbaugh advocate a republican purge of moderates, we still have to realize that those people calling themselves Republicans voted overwhelmingly against the very candidates Limbaugh advocated in 2008.

Nor do I think that the Governor races in New Jersey and Virgina will form any kind of national trend. Six months is an eternity in politics, and right now the GOP can talk in vague terms about what their future vision is, the time for that is fast ending for the GOP.

With the start of the primary elections of 2010 just around the corner, the GOP is going to have to stand for something other than no, no, and no to any changes. And field a set of candidates that stand for something the GOP has not yet articulated.

And while I am confident a few radical right candidates like Hoffman will prevail in the GOP primaries, unless they can hold GOP moderates and even attract some conservative democrats, those GOP types running to the far right are almost certain to go down in the general elections in 11/2010.

I also predict the American public will tire at GOP obstruction of the very change they voted for in 11/2008, and any Obama successes meanwhile will just accelerate that trend. Meanwhile the bluedog democrats that have been partly to blame in also obstructing Obama initiatives will wake up and smell the coffee, and realize they have to have something to show their supporters come 11/2010. And do it what it takes to run to the slight left of their GOP counterparts.

1. The (R) was selected by leaders to run, not the people. She was more liberal than a lot of (D) pols. She was not "forced out", she dropped out because she knew she was going to lose.
2. The (Conservative) candidate is not a radical. It may seem like it to you fringe leftists but clearly he's not outside of the mainstream of US politics. For those who step outside the media created narrative

 

[lothar]

BHO - Bush-hate, and an almost RINO

Clinton 2nd - Running the GOP version of kerry(stiff, deadlooking, etc) - just older.

Neither of those examples have to do with what he posted.

It certainly has everything to do with the chart he posted.

If only 16% of the country defined themselves as Liberal in 1996, how did Clinton manage to get re-elected?
If only 22% of the country defined themselves as Liberal in 2008, how did Obama manage to get elected?

 

[Atreus21]

I think we are all making too much of the upstate New York Race, where one radical right candidate has forced out a more liberal Republican. And even if we acknowledge that voices like Limbaugh advocate a republican purge of moderates, we still have to realize that those people calling themselves Republicans voted overwhelmingly against the very candidates Limbaugh advocated in 2008.

Nor do I think that the Governor races in New Jersey and Virgina will form any kind of national trend. Six months is an eternity in politics, and right now the GOP can talk in vague terms about what their future vision is, the time for that is fast ending for the GOP.

With the start of the primary elections of 2010 just around the corner, the GOP is going to have to stand for something other than no, no, and no to any changes. And field a set of candidates that stand for something the GOP has not yet articulated.

And while I am confident a few radical right candidates like Hoffman will prevail in the GOP primaries, unless they can hold GOP moderates and even attract some conservative democrats, those GOP types running to the far right are almost certain to go down in the general elections in 11/2010.

I also predict the American public will tire at GOP obstruction of the very change they voted for in 11/2008, and any Obama successes meanwhile will just accelerate that trend. Meanwhile the bluedog democrats that have been partly to blame in also obstructing Obama initiatives will wake up and smell the coffee, and realize they have to have something to show their supporters come 11/2010. And do it what it takes to run to the slight left of their GOP counterparts.

And by moderate, you mean democrat, right?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

It certainly has everything to do with the chart he posted.

If only 16% of the country defined themselves as Liberal in 1996, how did Clinton manage to get re-elected?
If only 22% of the country defined themselves as Liberal in 2008, how did Obama manage to get elected?

Did you ignore what I posted? Do you really think that the climate and opponent in what amounts to a 2 person race doesn't affect the outcome?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Living in NY state, I can say that the Democratic party has worked long and hard to destroy the economy. Businesses don't want to come here because the taxation and regulatory requirements are ridiculous, we have the highest per capita real estate taxes, and I believe with Paterson's "reforms" pushed us to the highest overall tax burden in the nation. Driving business and people out has been the norm here. Frankly, the Dems all need to be booted, and I don't care by who.

 

[Red Dawn]

Living in NY state, I can say that the Democratic party has worked long and hard to destroy the economy. Businesses don't want to come here because the taxation and regulatory requirements are ridiculous, we have the highest per capita real estate taxes, and I believe with Paterson's "reforms" pushed us to the highest overall tax burden in the nation. Driving business and people out has been the norm here. Frankly, the Dems all need to be booted, and I don't care by who.

Well we've seen the Republicans in action and they seem to be as bad if not worse plus they are aligned with the freedom hating Religious Right and other nutters which IMO make them not the ones you want to use as replacements.

 

[cubby1223]

Well we've seen the Republicans in action and they seem to be as bad if not worse plus they are aligned with the freedom hating Religious Right and other nutters which IMO make them not the ones you want to use as replacements.

And that is why this district is voting for a third party candidate.



I still haven't figured out what the outrage is for from the lefties. Voters have the right to vote for who they want, and voters are saying they want neither the Republican nor the Democrat. They are voting for the principles *they* want, not the labels Washington wants to brand.

 

[cubby1223]

I think we are all making too much of the upstate New York Race, where one radical right candidate has forced out a more liberal Republican.

Wow, you're such a partisan hack.

The candidate the people of the district wanted, won over the candidate the people of the district did not want.

Do you even know what "radical" means? Do the world a favor and grow up. Nobody respects a child's tantrums.

 

[Red Dawn]

And that is why this district is voting for a third party candidate.



I still haven't figured out what the outrage is for from the lefties. Voters have the right to vote for who they want, and voters are saying they want neither the Republican nor the Democrat. They are voting for the principles *they* want, not the labels Washington wants to brand.

Good for them. It's nuts to think the Republicans would be any better than the Democrats when in the past they have proven they are just as bad if not worse.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well we've seen the Republicans in action and they seem to be as bad if not worse plus they are aligned with the freedom hating Religious Right and other nutters which IMO make them not the ones you want to use as replacements.

Red, when you live here and see what's been done year after year, then tell me how bad the Republicans have been for NY. Frankly if the bowed down and prayed to a Studebaker I wouldn't care as long as they did a better job which is almost a given. Dead skunks could.

I've seen Bush and Newt and the rest and a whole lot I don't care for. If they had run the country as badly as the Dems have NY we'd have another Depression. They are that bad.

Edit: And if they get someone from neither party (just about anyone who is as far away from the Dems as possible), that's awesome. On the whole pig shit smells worse than bullshit, and having a choice of something else is refreshing.

 

[Ausm]

I love it...this foretelling the things to come for the GOP kicking out all the moderate Republican (probably 3 left) and going even farther to the right.

 

[CaptnKirk]

We are doomed, cried the optomist!

 

[spidey07]

I love it...this foretelling the things to come for the GOP kicking out all the moderate Republican (probably 3 left) and going even farther to the right.

It's what's needed to get this country back on track and away from the treacherous train wreck of the last 10 months. Stop spending people's money, stop expanding government, stop taking over private industry. That's not moving farther to the right, that's moving towards liberty, freedom and the American dream of self determination.

 

[cubby1223]

I love it...this foretelling the things to come for the GOP kicking out all the moderate Republican (probably 3 left) and going even farther to the right.

I'll bet dollars to donuts the only thing you know about the conservative party candidate is that he was endorsed by Palin, and you're making all your judgments off of that

 

[Ausm]

I'll bet dollars to donuts the only thing you know about the conservative party candidate is that he was endorsed by Palin, and you're making all your judgments off of that

I know that going farther to the right and alienating moderates is not going to win many elections.

 

[Patranus]

I love it...this foretelling the things to come for the GOP kicking out all the moderate Republican (probably 3 left) and going even farther to the right.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx#

Bye-Bye

 

[cubby1223]

I know that going farther to the right and alienating moderates is not going to win many elections.

And yet you still haven't demonstrated any knowledge of this race. Which policy or policies of Hoffman's is alienating moderates, or shall I say alienating the voters of the district?

 

[Zoomer]

Living in NY state, I can say that the Democratic party has worked long and hard to destroy the economy. Businesses don't want to come here because the taxation and regulatory requirements are ridiculous, we have the highest per capita real estate taxes, and I believe with Paterson's "reforms" pushed us to the highest overall tax burden in the nation. Driving business and people out has been the norm here. Frankly, the Dems all need to be booted, and I don't care by who.

Believe it or not, but manufacturing still makes up a huge part of the NY economy, particularly upstate. The taxes are killing them.

Personally, where is the fiscally conservative party?

I know that going farther to the right and alienating moderates is not going to win many elections.

You know that upstate is more conservative than NYC, right?

 

[Lemon law]

Looks like we can edit this thread title to the fall of the extremists.

With 77% of the votes in, The democrat Owens has a three point lead over the Republican
Hoffman.

 

[dawp]

here's a link to the current status, cnn has it 49 - 45 in favor of owens

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/category/ny-23/

 

[Bitek]

Living in NY state, I can say that the Democratic party has worked long and hard to destroy the economy. Businesses don't want to come here because the taxation and regulatory requirements are ridiculous, we have the highest per capita real estate taxes, and I believe with Paterson's "reforms" pushed us to the highest overall tax burden in the nation. Driving business and people out has been the norm here. Frankly, the Dems all need to be booted, and I don't care by who.

Every Pol in NY sucks. It was the most corrupt and wasteful place I've ever lived in. Couldn't wait to leave. Too bad as its a very pretty state.
I was upstate and it was all controlled by R's and they are just as stupid as the D's. School taxes were insane, but the schools were terrible. Tax money just disappeared into a blackhole of graft and waste. Road projects always went on forever w/ no progress and just ran overbudget. Go 50mi north of the city and the state is rotting. Amazing how backwards is gets so quickly.

The whole State Senate fiasco this summer was a perfect microcosm of NY governance. A constant fight between petulant 2 yr olds thinking of nothing but themselves. You can change the nameplates, but that is all that changes. NY is a sinking ship.
____



BTW, there are always ~10 different parties on the NY ticket. Usually the R's or D's are listed under a number of different parties, so it doesn't matter either way. Far from a 3rd party revolution in that regard.

What's amazing is the interference from conservative interest groups, fringe candidates, and media voices like Limbaugh and Beck which have totally steered the national party and caught them completely unawares. Beohner (or whoever else is the political R leader) looks completely inept and powerless, as did all the suckasses rushing in after the coup trying to act like they are relevant to the new power shift.

 

[Bitek]

Q: How long until the national GOP starts calling Christie a RINO?
A: The second they want to start losing elections

Smartest thing they have done is STFU about the NJ race and not interject the nutjobs and wingnuttery into the race. Corzine is a douche and it was theirs to lose. The second it becomes a national race, you get the remaining RW crazies like Palin and Bachmann in there and the whole race goes nuclear. G/l with that.

 

[Bitek]

Democrat Bill Owens is looking in very strong shape to prevail in the New York 23 special election.

With 78 percent of precincts reporting, Owens is leading Conservative Doug Hoffman by three points, 49 to 46 percent. But most of the uncounted votes are from St. Lawrence County, which is expected to give Owens a solid margin of victory over Hoffman. (In limited returns, it shows Owens leading 57 to 39 percent.)

Hoffman hasn’t racked up the margins of victory he needs in the Syracuse media market. He only leads Owens by two points in Oswego County, even though late public polls showed him leading by double-digits in that region.

In Jefferson County, the most competitive part of the district, Owens holds a four-point lead over Hoffman, 49 to 45 percent.

Looking bad up there. I think this may be the most significant election of the night, at least in what sort of parables the national parties were looking to write.

Dems took a punch in the face, but GOP shot themselves in the ass w/ a .45. Hardly the tale of reassurance and strength to carry you into 2010. The GOP is losing its control to a group of self-righteous political martyrs who are very willing to take the party down with them rather than compromise (or cede ratings.) Oh the turmoil to follow.
Run moderates run! Run fer yer lives!

 

[Fear No Evil]

So this thread has gone from 'Its no big deal' when it looked like the GOP could win, to its the 'most significant election of the night' when it looks like the Dems will win. Interesting how that works. Hoffman did pretty well considering he was really only the main opposition candidate for about a week or so. Had he had a little longer I think he would have won.. nobody really knew who he was and he didn't have the money to get his msg out until the past week or so.