GOP goes anti-capitalism, tries to block Tesla Motors from selling in N. Carolina

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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
From my understanding the car dealership lobbyists managed years ago to implement policy and law changes to forbid any car manufacturer from selling direct to their consumers. They have to use a dealership to do it. This is just utterly ridiculous. You can buy any product just about and buy it direct from the company who makes it, except cars. Tesla has been trying to go to court over this, and even tried to set up their own dealership, but the obstacles they face are corrupt politicians whose pockets are lined by the lobby's and big oil. Big oil companies are very much afraid of these electric vehicles, or any vehicle that isn't dependent on gas. A friend of mine actually managed to buy a Tesla car, and he says the thing is amazing and is probably the best made care he has ever owned.

This is just stifling free market in this country by doing this.

My understanding is that originally it was the automakers that wanted dealerships to sell cars for them. It was impractical for them to setup their own nationwide distribution network. So they got local business(the dealerships) to foot the bill.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Wait, is Tesla is banned from opening their own dealership locations in these states?

I can totally see if Tesla were banned from selling a vehicle in a state they have no presence in, as it would likely invalidate all of the state level consumer protection laws.

Why single out Tesla?? They don't block Amazon from selling in their state.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
The article might have been more interesting to read if the author wasn't one of the more heavily slanted writer's out there.

What happens if you buy your Tesla and it needs warranty work done on it? Ship the car from North Carolina all the way back to California?

It is quite interesting how the progressives now are the ones against protecting local middle-class jobs in favor of higher profits to corporations. I could pretty much guarantee if car dealerships were unionized the Democrats would be introducing bills to ban Tesla's direct sales while Republicans try to prevent that in the name of free markets.

In other words, politics as usual.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Some day people will realize that "free markets", like "states rights" is nothing more than canned bluster from the GOP. At the end of the day, they are politicians trying to get elected by pandering to their constituents. They could give a shit about capitalism unless it gets them elected and paid.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
About thirty years ago my neighbor took a bus to Detroit to pick up her new truck, I remember a few other tales back then but nothing since then.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,337
15,133
136
Wait, is Tesla is banned from opening their own dealership locations in these states?

I can totally see if Tesla were banned from selling a vehicle in a state they have no presence in, as it would likely invalidate all of the state level consumer protection laws.

Yes, car manufactures are not allowed to sell directly to the consumer.

For those bringing up service for a car sold directly to the consumer, the consumer would simply take the car to the tesla store/shop. It would be no different than it is now other than the store/shop would be owned by tesla.

There is absolutely no reason for this restriction other than to protect a small minority. It doesn't benefit the people.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Call up any of the car manufacturers and see if they will sell to you directly. They will always point you to a dealership. That goes for a lot more than car manufacturers.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,584
7,645
136
Call up any of the car manufacturers and see if they will sell to you directly. They will always point you to a dealership. That goes for a lot more than car manufacturers.

Why would it be mandated by law?

Other than cars? I'm thinking of buying food online. Using your logic, shouldn't that be illegal and require a dealer (store)?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Call up any of the car manufacturers and see if they will sell to you directly. They will always point you to a dealership. That goes for a lot more than car manufacturers.
So? Why do new companies have to play by the rules of the old ones?
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
Call up any of the car manufacturers and see if they will sell to you directly. They will always point you to a dealership. That goes for a lot more than car manufacturers.

Ok so what? Does that mean this is law? Imagine if you couldn't buy produce from a farmer and had to get it through a grocery store. If 99/100 farmers refuse to sell produce to you direct does that mean that the 1/100 farmers who want to should be barred from doing so?

Imagine if we could never buy anything direct from the manufacturer. Say goodbye to vertical integration.

Why you so anti-capitalist?
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
My understanding is that originally it was the automakers that wanted dealerships to sell cars for them. It was impractical for them to setup their own nationwide distribution network. So they got local business(the dealerships) to foot the bill.

Which means they just added more cost to the consumer. And this cost would vary wildly depending on the dealer/buyer.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Manufacturers want to do lots of things that the government doesn't allow.

Welcome to big government.

Cry more.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
So why do the righties have their hate on for Tesla? Its innovation, a modern car startup. They borrowed money from the government and paid it back. What gives?

What gives?

The state of NC isn't going to give Tesla any 'free govt" benefits and you wanna bitch about the GOP. That's what gives.

It wouldn't matter if Tesla was a Repub owned company, it ain't gonna happen folks. If NC let Tesla do it they'd have to let the other auto manufacturers do it too. And that would be stupid. The legislature is not going to kill the dealership businesses in NC. That too would be stupid.

Aside from consumer protection laws (which would be circumvented by a seller outside of state) and common sense (no way for the state to enforce warranties etc.) and no dealership servicing, car sales from outside the state means NC gets no revenue.

A dealership in NC reports it's profit and pays income tax to NC, one located out-of-state doesn't. A dealership in NC collects and remits to NC the sales tax, registration fees and license plate fees. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. A dealership in NC ensures the purchaser has a license and auto insurance. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. Dealerships in NC are licensed, supervised and pay a good deal in fees. Not ones from outside the state.

This shizz isn't going to happen to for a whole lot of good reasons.

The NC legislature was controlled by the Dems for about 100 yrs until just recently. The Dems put those laws on the books.

Comparisons to Amazon are stupid. Amazon is nothing but a fancy catalog sales company. Those have been around forever. You don't need a license etc to buy the stuff in a catalog. The stuff Amazon sales and the sales of an new auto cannot be reasonably compared.

This has nothing to do with politics. Period.

Fern
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
I love all the bullshit reasons the conservative apologists come up for in here to justify this anti-capitalist behavior from the GOP.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,697
25,022
136
I laughed my ass off when I heard a dealer association rep in an interview say that dealers were pushing hard to keep Tesla from selling directly because they had the best interests of consumers at heart and that dealers were the fairest and best way for consumers to buy cars.

How anyone could say that with a straight face is beyond me.

A little bit of background:

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/19/184882045/tesla-rides-high-but-faces-formidable-foe-car-dealers
 
Last edited:

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I love all the bullshit reasons the conservative apologists come up for in here to justify this anti-capitalist behavior from the GOP.

I love that Democrats avoid logic and facts when they disagree with their preconceived notions.

Besides, it's Democrats that think capitalism is the root of all evil. Shouldn't you be siding with anti-capitalists instead of the massive corporation owned by a billionaire?

Democrats are so stupid it's sad.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,697
25,022
136
What gives?

The state of NC isn't going to give Tesla any 'free govt" benefits and you wanna bitch about the GOP. That's what gives.

It wouldn't matter if Tesla was a Repub owned company, it ain't gonna happen folks. If NC let Tesla do it they'd have to let the other auto manufacturers do it too. And that would be stupid. The legislature is not going to kill the dealership businesses in NC. That too would be stupid.

Aside from consumer protection laws (which would be circumvented by a seller outside of state) and common sense (no way for the state to enforce warranties etc.) and no dealership servicing, car sales from outside the state means NC gets no revenue.

A dealership in NC reports it's profit and pays income tax to NC, one located out-of-state doesn't. A dealership in NC collects and remits to NC the sales tax, registration fees and license plate fees. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. A dealership in NC ensures the purchaser has a license and auto insurance. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. Dealerships in NC are licensed, supervised and pay a good deal in fees. Not ones from outside the state.

This shizz isn't going to happen to for a whole lot of good reasons.

This has nothing to do with politics. Period.

Fern

Are you high? Tesla is trying to open a dealership in the state, they aren't saying they won't pay the same taxes everyone else does. They just don't want Bubba Joe to own the dealership. I find it beyond belief that anyone would see that as nothing more than government picking winners and losers through regulation. Something I would imagine most people on the right side of the political sprectrum of which I believe you are one would have an almost visceral reaction to. Except in this case for some odd reason.

Dealers have kind of brought this on themselves if they didn't have a public reputation somewhere between the IRS and lawyers. Regulations that protect certain industries (dealerships are an industry) from disruptive competition are wrong period. I as a crazy liberal say that.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
What gives?

The state of NC isn't going to give Tesla any 'free govt" benefits and you wanna bitch about the GOP. That's what gives.

It wouldn't matter if Tesla was a Repub owned company, it ain't gonna happen folks. If NC let Tesla do it they'd have to let the other auto manufacturers do it too. And that would be stupid. The legislature is not going to kill the dealership businesses in NC. That too would be stupid.

Aside from consumer protection laws (which would be circumvented by a seller outside of state) and common sense (no way for the state to enforce warranties etc.) and no dealership servicing, car sales from outside the state means NC gets no revenue.

A dealership in NC reports it's profit and pays income tax to NC, one located out-of-state doesn't. A dealership in NC collects and remits to NC the sales tax, registration fees and license plate fees. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. A dealership in NC ensures the purchaser has a license and auto insurance. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. Dealerships in NC are licensed, supervised and pay a good deal in fees. Not ones from outside the state.

This shizz isn't going to happen to for a whole lot of good reasons.

The NC legislature was controlled by the Dems for about 100 yrs until just recently. The Dems put those laws on the books.

Comparisons to Amazon are stupid. Amazon is nothing but a fancy catalog sales company. Those have been around forever. You don't need a license etc to buy the stuff in a catalog. The stuff Amazon sales and the sales of an new auto cannot be reasonably compared.

This has nothing to do with politics. Period.

Fern

You're saying the Dems are are banning direct sales by companies like Tesla? What?

This will not open the floodgates to other manufacturers doing direct sales and you do know why? Because they aren't currently doing it. However, this bill will ensure that even those companies will not have the choice to do direct sales, which is anti-capitalist and hence anti-American!
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
What gives?

The state of NC isn't going to give Tesla any 'free govt" benefits and you wanna bitch about the GOP. That's what gives.

It wouldn't matter if Tesla was a Repub owned company, it ain't gonna happen folks. If NC let Tesla do it they'd have to let the other auto manufacturers do it too. And that would be stupid. The legislature is not going to kill the dealership businesses in NC. That too would be stupid.
Other manufacturers don't want to bother with it, that's how the dealership system started in the first place. Then the dealerships lobbied for laws to make their jobs mandatory. This isn't regulations for any public purpose, it's trying a new business model and having the old one trying to stop it. It's like if Polaroid had gotten laws passed against digital camera sales.

Aside from consumer protection laws (which would be circumvented by a seller outside of state) and common sense (no way for the state to enforce warranties etc.) and no dealership servicing, car sales from outside the state means NC gets no revenue.

A dealership in NC reports it's profit and pays income tax to NC, one located out-of-state doesn't. A dealership in NC collects and remits to NC the sales tax, registration fees and license plate fees. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. A dealership in NC ensures the purchaser has a license and auto insurance. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. Dealerships in NC are licensed, supervised and pay a good deal in fees. Not ones from outside the state.

...
Comparisons to Amazon are stupid. Amazon is nothing but a fancy catalog sales company. Those have been around forever. You don't need a license etc to buy the stuff in a catalog. The stuff Amazon sales and the sales of an new auto cannot be reasonably compared.
None of this is at all different than literally any other out-of-state good. Let's outlaw internet buying, and in fact all interstate commerce, altogether!

It's exactly like Amazon. The only difference is licensing, which is completely irrelevant. You still have to get a Tesla car licensed in NC, still pay registration, etc., like any other car. There's no law against buying your car in VA or SC and driving it into NC to register it, which is exactly the same thing from NC's point of view.

The NC legislature was controlled by the Dems for about 100 yrs until just recently. The Dems put those laws on the books.
This is an issue of bad governance, not one party in particular. But it is bad governance.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
I love that Democrats avoid logic and facts when they disagree with their preconceived notions.

Besides, it's Democrats that think capitalism is the root of all evil. Shouldn't you be siding with anti-capitalists instead of the massive corporation owned by a billionaire?

Democrats are so stupid it's sad.

Well, I've never seen Democrats be anti capitalist, and unaligned liberals like myself tend to be pro regulated capitalism. I'm anti laissez faire, but that's because I know Ayn Rand's philosophy is bullshit for the stupid.

I honestly don't care what you say about Democrats, to me they're just the less conservative version of Republicans. We honestly need a real liberal party if we want things to get better. Regardless though, having seen your posts, you really are in no position to be calling anyone stupid (except maybe Incorruptible, michal1980, nehalem, or Matt1970 ... all other sentient life forms can call them stupid).
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,337
15,133
136
What gives?

The state of NC isn't going to give Tesla any 'free govt" benefits and you wanna bitch about the GOP. That's what gives.

It wouldn't matter if Tesla was a Repub owned company, it ain't gonna happen folks. If NC let Tesla do it they'd have to let the other auto manufacturers do it too. And that would be stupid. The legislature is not going to kill the dealership businesses in NC. That too would be stupid.

Aside from consumer protection laws (which would be circumvented by a seller outside of state) and common sense (no way for the state to enforce warranties etc.) and no dealership servicing, car sales from outside the state means NC gets no revenue.

A dealership in NC reports it's profit and pays income tax to NC, one located out-of-state doesn't. A dealership in NC collects and remits to NC the sales tax, registration fees and license plate fees. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. A dealership in NC ensures the purchaser has a license and auto insurance. A dealership outside of NC doesn't. Dealerships in NC are licensed, supervised and pay a good deal in fees. Not ones from outside the state.

This shizz isn't going to happen to for a whole lot of good reasons.

The NC legislature was controlled by the Dems for about 100 yrs until just recently. The Dems put those laws on the books.

Comparisons to Amazon are stupid. Amazon is nothing but a fancy catalog sales company. Those have been around forever. You don't need a license etc to buy the stuff in a catalog. The stuff Amazon sales and the sales of an new auto cannot be reasonably compared.

This has nothing to do with politics. Period.

Fern

Wow, I've never seen such a BS post fron you before.

First off tesla isn't asking for anything or any kind of hand out. What it is doing is trying to prevent NC from passing a law that would essentially Bar it's sales model. How you came to the conclusion that that equaled some free government benefit is beyond me.

As far as "if they let tesla do it they would have to let everyone do it" argument, lol! They can already do it they choose not to.

Tesla has showrooms from which they could not sell cara from, if they could they would certainly be paying taxes in NC for cars sold in their NC showroom.

As far as service goes, how does tesla currently handle service issues? How do any manufactures handle service issues when there isn't a service center nearby? If that was such an issue why not mandate that a service center be located in the state?

0 for four buddy
 
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