GOP New bill allow employer to choose not pay 1.5x OT hourly

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,071
10,522
136
Reading the text, I'm not seeing a loss of the time and a half provision. Comp time will have to be at time and a half. I understand that mo cash isn't a given under this bill but it isn't a straight time bill.

Except a company could make you take pay as comp time, then never actually take the time off. Thus going for time and half to zero time. At least I think that is the fear.

I just read the bill, and it looks damn good to me, actually. I have a natural distrust of republicans messing with labor laws, and with the dems fighting it hard there might be a catch I'm missing. But it looks like it is 100% employee's choice for comp time or pay, the comp time accrues at time and half, there are responsible max accruals, and unused comp time has to be paid out.

Really this is very similar to many companies policies for exempt engineers (except no time and half for engies). I personally always preferred comp time, unless I was working a ton of OT at once.

Does any one know what the Dems have against this?

Comp time could also be great for people that work unpredictable jobs where they could be working 7/12s one month, then have no work and no hours the next month.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,993
16,312
136
Except a company could make you take pay as comp time, then never actually take the time off. Thus going for time and half to zero time. At least I think that is the fear.

I just read the bill, and it looks damn good to me, actually. I have a natural distrust of republicans messing with labor laws, and with the dems fighting it hard there might be a catch I'm missing. But it looks like it is 100% employee's choice for comp time or pay, the comp time accrues at time and half, there are responsible max accruals, and unused comp time has to be paid out.

Really this is very similar to many companies policies for exempt engineers (except no time and half for engies). I personally always preferred comp time, unless I was working a ton of OT at once.

Does any one know what the Dems have against this?

Comp time could also be great for people that work unpredictable jobs where they could be working 7/12s one month, then have no work and no hours the next month.

Or more realistically remove some vacation or holidays then reimburse in time worked days off.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,837
12,126
136
As long as the claim to be against abortion, who cares.

I used to work with a ton of Union workers and they all thought it was democrats destroying unions. They even listened to all the right wing talking heads, that bash unions non-stop. I have no idea how people can be so stupid.

Similar with me. I used to manage a bunch of organized guys (CWA). I won't say most because the majority didn't care but I will say the vocal ones really wanted to vote Republican but never found them good enough on trade. Makes sense to me why Trump won.

A union working man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,993
16,312
136
A union working man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...

I have no opinion regarding the CWA or the bargaining process....

Aww fuck it I don't work there any longer they didn't understand how good they had it. More paid time off, better healthcare, maternity & paternity leave, effectively two wage increases per year
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,824
7,328
136
Reading the text, I'm not seeing a loss of the time and a half provision. Comp time will have to be at time and a half. I understand that mo cash isn't a given under this bill but it isn't a straight time bill.

Thanks for posting that. Attribute my laziness for missing it.

That being said, I would think the idea of getting rid of overtime pay is something that is very much in line with the agenda of the GOP in regards to their efforts to get rid of unions, their continuing efforts to drive down the wage lines of all the non-top management jobs that they can get away with, along with their ceaseless efforts to ship jobs and manufacturing overseas to improve ROI.

For the fact that it would be very difficult to establish a nationwide trend among businesses for getting rid of time and a half features due to it being a very attractive inducement for first hires of good talent and retention of said talent, I'd say chances are rather slim at the moment, but it's something that is always in the minds of those who see their hourly employees as nothing but objects that need to be exploited to their highest potential.

I'd say if the Repubs could get away with it, they'd jump on it in a split second. I think what's stopping their efforts in this regard is that there are many solid Dem states that contribute more than their share of wealth to the Treasury's coffers and these states aren't having any of it.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Is there something I am not seeing about this? Why in the world does anybody think this is a good thing?
You do not appear acquainted with the exquisite satisfaction one can apparently derive from stiggin' it to the libs!
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
This is how to approach elections - tell voters to look at every piece of legislation the GOP has passed when in the majority. They all favor corporations over individuals, employers over employees, rich over poor. Every. Single. Time. Their populist messaging is a big lie. The dems need to bang this drum over and over again. Starting with that disgraceful internet privacy bill. The GOP is in power and they need to own it all.

Most voters don't even know they're doing this kind of thing. Conservatives don't read the mainstream press. At most they know about only the largest legislative initiatives like healthcare. Even those voters who read mainstream press barely notice things like this. Time to educate voters.

If these sorts are any good at being educated they wouldn't believe what they do.

Except a company could make you take pay as comp time, then never actually take the time off. Thus going for time and half to zero time. At least I think that is the fear.

I just read the bill, and it looks damn good to me, actually. I have a natural distrust of republicans messing with labor laws, and with the dems fighting it hard there might be a catch I'm missing. But it looks like it is 100% employee's choice for comp time or pay, the comp time accrues at time and half, there are responsible max accruals, and unused comp time has to be paid out.

Really this is very similar to many companies policies for exempt engineers (except no time and half for engies). I personally always preferred comp time, unless I was working a ton of OT at once.

Does any one know what the Dems have against this?

Comp time could also be great for people that work unpredictable jobs where they could be working 7/12s one month, then have no work and no hours the next month.

"Employee's choice" is never really in asymmetric relationships.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,579
4,659
136
I fail to see an issue with this:


“(i) in which the employer has offered and the employee has chosen to receive compensatory time in lieu of monetary overtime compensation; and


“(ii) entered into knowingly and voluntarily by such employee and not as a condition of employment.

And


(3) HOUR LIMIT.—

“(A) MAXIMUM HOURS.—An employee may accrue not more than 160 hours of compensatory time.

“(B) COMPENSATION DATE.—Not later than January 31 of each calendar year, the employee’s employer shall provide monetary compensation for any unused compensatory time off accrued during the preceding calendar year that was not used prior to December 31 of the preceding year at the rate prescribed by paragraph (6). An employer may designate and communicate to the employer’s employees a 12-month period other than the calendar year, in which case such compensation shall be provided not later than 31 days after the end of such 12-month period.

It reads that the employee makes the choice and the employer has to compensate at 1.5 rate in either time or money as the employee chooses.
 
Last edited:

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I think it could be a good bill for sobering up Trump supporters. But unfortunately, Senate Democrats are going to protect Trump Trash from the consequences of its own voting.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I fail to see an issue with this:


“(i) in which the employer has offered and the employee has chosen to receive compensatory time in lieu of monetary overtime compensation; and


“(ii) entered into knowingly and voluntarily by such employee and not as a condition of employment.

And


(3) HOUR LIMIT.—

“(A) MAXIMUM HOURS.—An employee may accrue not more than 160 hours of compensatory time.

“(B) COMPENSATION DATE.—Not later than January 31 of each calendar year, the employee’s employer shall provide monetary compensation for any unused compensatory time off accrued during the preceding calendar year that was not used prior to December 31 of the preceding year at the rate prescribed by paragraph (6). An employer may designate and communicate to the employer’s employees a 12-month period other than the calendar year, in which case such compensation shall be provided not later than 31 days after the end of such 12-month period.

It reads that the employee makes the choice and the employer has to compensate at 1.5 rate.

I think even you're smart enough to chose wisely when the boss "recommends" taking the hours.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,072
18,548
146
I fail to see an issue with this:


“(i) in which the employer has offered and the employee has chosen to receive compensatory time in lieu of monetary overtime compensation; and


“(ii) entered into knowingly and voluntarily by such employee and not as a condition of employment.

And


(3) HOUR LIMIT.—

“(A) MAXIMUM HOURS.—An employee may accrue not more than 160 hours of compensatory time.

“(B) COMPENSATION DATE.—Not later than January 31 of each calendar year, the employee’s employer shall provide monetary compensation for any unused compensatory time off accrued during the preceding calendar year that was not used prior to December 31 of the preceding year at the rate prescribed by paragraph (6). An employer may designate and communicate to the employer’s employees a 12-month period other than the calendar year, in which case such compensation shall be provided not later than 31 days after the end of such 12-month period.

It reads that the employee makes the choice and the employer has to compensate at 1.5 rate in either time or money as the employee chooses.

You forgot to make it to paragraph 6

“(6) RATE OF COMPENSATION.—

“(A) GENERAL RULE.—If compensation is to be paid to an employee for accrued compensatory time off, such compensation shall be paid at a rate of compensation not less than—

“(i) the regular rate earned by such employee when the compensatory time was accrued; or

“(ii) the regular rate earned by such employee at the time such employee received payment of such compensation,

whichever is higher.

And let's not gloss over the part where anything over 80 hours the employer can just give you the money whenever they choose. Can't have people with time off out here, no sir, then they have time to protest.
 
Last edited:

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Is there something I am not seeing about this? Why in the world does anybody think this is a good thing?

Because it gives time off to people who are working extra to make ends meet of course. Yeah that's how much sense the Reps statements mean. The value is for the employers who can now "request" people work longer and then when someone does take time (that will probably not be at the employees choosing but who knows) everyone else will be screwed plugging that hole. It's everyone elses problem but the boss doesn't need to worry about paying extra money to anyone
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,173
5,735
126
Look at all the Benefits and wonderful Working Conditions! Unions are corrupt and you don't need them!!

Guess who needs a Union now?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,959
5,848
126
Considering I would never ever work a job where I was "forced" to work more than 40 hours even if I was paid for it, if I was, I'd much rather have PTO than 1.5x my pay. People in this country already work way too much. I already have a very healthy work/life balance and have worked more than 40 hours a week exactly 2 times, and I was compensated for it, but it is also a huge reason I left that company - because they had terrible project managers who didn't know how to plan and schedule things.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Ok read the bill. It is voluntary. Employees cannot be compelled to take comp time and those that agree to it can withdraw from the agreement. I got that just reading the first 3 paragraphs of the bill.

“(B) in the case of an employee who is not represented by a labor organization that has been certified or recognized as the representative of such employee under applicable law, an agreement arrived at between the employer and employee before the performance of the work and affirmed by a written or otherwise verifiable record maintained in accordance with section 11(c)—

“(i) in which the employer has offered and the employee has chosen to receive compensatory time in lieu of monetary overtime compensation; and


“(ii) entered into knowingly and voluntarily by such employee and not as a condition of employment.

“(E) WRITTEN REQUEST.—An employee may withdraw an agreement described in paragraph (2)(B) at any time. An employee may also request in writing that monetary compensation be provided, at any time, for all compensatory time accrued that has not yet been used. Within 30 days of receiving the written request, the employer shall provide the employee the monetary compensation due in accordance with paragraph (6).
]
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Except a company could make you take pay as comp time, then never actually take the time off. Thus going for time and half to zero time. At least I think that is the fear.

I just read the bill, and it looks damn good to me, actually. I have a natural distrust of republicans messing with labor laws, and with the dems fighting it hard there might be a catch I'm missing. But it looks like it is 100% employee's choice for comp time or pay, the comp time accrues at time and half, there are responsible max accruals, and unused comp time has to be paid out.

Really this is very similar to many companies policies for exempt engineers (except no time and half for engies). I personally always preferred comp time, unless I was working a ton of OT at once.

Does any one know what the Dems have against this?

Comp time could also be great for people that work unpredictable jobs where they could be working 7/12s one month, then have no work and no hours the next month.

That's wrong the bill clearly says that an employee can request monetary compensation for unused comp time at any time.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Ok read the bill. It is voluntary. Employees cannot be compelled to take comp time and those that agree to it can withdraw from the agreement. I got that just reading the first 3 paragraphs of the bill.

Bragging about being dumber than pcgeek.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
You forgot to make it to paragraph 6



And let's not gloss over the part where anything over 80 hours the employer can just give you the money whenever they choose. Can't have people with time off out here, no sir, then they have time to protest.
Paragraph 6 doesn't effect rate. If you choose to convert your comp time to pay you are being paid for all the comp time at regular rate because your comp time earned is already 1.5 times actual hours worked.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
Totally agree with you in the sense that many working class Repubs have isolated themselves insofar as where they get their information from. They have been conditioned to acquire their information from sources that exclusively reinforces what they were told to believe by the very Repub legislators who want their constituents to remain ignorant of what their true intentions are.

A tight insulated looping circle of disninformation results and it obviously works quite well for the GOP and especially for the big moneyed interests that own their asses.

No shit now that Facebook is fighting fake news it's back to the 700 Club for instructions on how to think.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,483
528
126
posting just an article with no comments is not allowed? they didnt even have an explanation of the subject matter?

This is all he does. Tries to post a flame bait topic, no opinion of his own. Then never comes back.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,071
10,522
136
You forgot to make it to paragraph 6

And let's not gloss over the part where anything over 80 hours the employer can just give you the money whenever they choose. Can't have people with time off out here, no sir, then they have time to protest.

Paragraph 6 days they have to give them the higher of current wages or previous wages. That's good.

Now you are complaining that a company could make someone take OT pay as opposed to comp time? I thought the complaint was they could give comp time as opposed to OT?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,993
16,312
136
Paragraph 6 days they have to give them the higher of current wages or previous wages. That's good.

Now you are complaining that a company could make someone take OT pay as opposed to comp time? I thought the complaint was they could give comp time as opposed to OT?

We both know nearly anyone who takes time off instead of 1.5 pay is a fool so why even make it an option. I'm not very interested in very, very limited examples because something like this should be passed to help the majority not a sub set of a tiny minority.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,383
50,369
136
We both know nearly anyone who takes time off instead of 1.5 pay is a fool so why even make it an option. I'm not very interested in very, very limited examples because something like this should be passed to help the majority not a sub set of a tiny minority.

The only issue I see is that as far as I can tell the comp time does not accrue at 1.5 times normal time, meaning the employee is still losing out on 'money'. I can also see how despite the law saying you can't pressure employees into taking comp time... plenty of places are going to do exactly that.

That being said, some people would genuinely prefer more time off as opposed to more money and giving them the option isn't bad. I wish I had more faith in the administration actually doing the enforcement necessary to prevent this from being abused.
 
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