Gordon pissed because female Indy 500 driver 100 lbs lighter!?!?

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: misterj
lol he has point, she does have an unfair advantage, but how is that different from the weight differences of all the men before? apparently when nascar started they wanted to leave that as an open variable. i think they should have accounted for it long ago, but what other racing league does this?

anywho, nascar is just not my cup of tea and i'll leave it at that.

Most other racing leagues, such as Formula 1, include the weight of the driver in the car's race weight. The rules of IRL are flawed and don't include that.

It's not about "oppressive male vs. empowered female", it's about the league's flawed rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

I'm not an "armchair" expert. I've been around race cars my entire life (both my grandfather and father were race car drivers), and I've driven race cars in various forms for 11 years. What I'm telling you is from actual experience with actual race cars on actual race tracks.

MOST of the racers that actually race in the indy 500 don't make such a big deal of it . . . just a few . . . and it it were THAT serious of a disadvantage, there'd be more racers actually boycotting the Indy 500.

you just have one POV not universally shared by professional racers.

They know it's an advantage, they just aren't saying it. There's been a few articles where the drivers interviewed have said they believe it's an advantage, and I would bet that viewpoint is shared by most of them. You're acting like weighing the cars without the driver is the rule, not the exception. The fact is, pretty much every racing organization in the world factors the driver's weight into the total weight, the IRL is one of the few exceptions.

Look, if weight didn't make a big difference, they wouldn't even bother to weigh the cars to begin with. If it made no difference, the various racing series wouldn't have a "no tolerance" rule in regards to being under weight. In my series, and pretty much every other one out there, if you weigh even a half a pound under the minimum weight, you are DQ'd, period. Also if the weight didn't matter, teams wouldn't go to any lengths to run on light fuel loads during qualifying to make the cars as close the legal weight as possible.

yep, you and trmiv
{and other racers built like Santa Claus}

Hilarious. I'm just an averaged sized guy.

Very last time . . . and i'm done with this subject [really tired of it as it been beaten beyond death]

i NEVER said it made NO difference or that there was NO advantage to "less weight" in an auto race. That is OBVIOUS.

What i AM saying [have been saying] . . . it that the difference is VERY small [compared to the MULTITUDE of OTHER factors in a LONG race around an oval track] . . . very very small . . .

that's all . . . not the "1 mph" advantage quoted.

our POVs aren't "so differnent" as it is a matter of "degrees"

See, this is where your lack of actual understanding of racing shows. Even very small advantages in racing are big advantages, ESPECIALLY when multiplied over the course of a long race. You're dealing with people that will spend thousands, hundreds of thousands, or sometimes millions--depending on their level of racing--to often times gain less than a tenth of a second of time on the track. Hell we recently spent over 2 grand on a new shock package for a race car because we thought we could gain maybe a tenth of a second. In a highly competitive series, every single advantage you can get matters, no matter how small.

EDIT: Also, I agree this topic is getting beat to death. Let's just agree to disagree on this and call it a day.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: misterj
lol he has point, she does have an unfair advantage, but how is that different from the weight differences of all the men before? apparently when nascar started they wanted to leave that as an open variable. i think they should have accounted for it long ago, but what other racing league does this?

anywho, nascar is just not my cup of tea and i'll leave it at that.

Most other racing leagues, such as Formula 1, include the weight of the driver in the car's race weight. The rules of IRL are flawed and don't include that.

It's not about "oppressive male vs. empowered female", it's about the league's flawed rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

I'm not an "armchair" expert. I've been around race cars my entire life (both my grandfather and father were race car drivers), and I've driven race cars in various forms for 11 years. What I'm telling you is from actual experience with actual race cars on actual race tracks.

MOST of the racers that actually race in the indy 500 don't make such a big deal of it . . . just a few . . . and it it were THAT serious of a disadvantage, there'd be more racers actually boycotting the Indy 500.

you just have one POV not universally shared by professional racers.

They know it's an advantage, they just aren't saying it. There's been a few articles where the drivers interviewed have said they believe it's an advantage, and I would bet that viewpoint is shared by most of them. You're acting like weighing the cars without the driver is the rule, not the exception. The fact is, pretty much every racing organization in the world factors the driver's weight into the total weight, the IRL is one of the few exceptions.

Look, if weight didn't make a big difference, they wouldn't even bother to weigh the cars to begin with. If it made no difference, the various racing series wouldn't have a "no tolerance" rule in regards to being under weight. In my series, and pretty much every other one out there, if you weigh even a half a pound under the minimum weight, you are DQ'd, period. Also if the weight didn't matter, teams wouldn't go to any lengths to run on light fuel loads during qualifying to make the cars as close the legal weight as possible.

yep, you and trmiv
{and other racers built like Santa Claus}

Hilarious. I'm just an averaged sized guy.

Very last time . . . and i'm done with this subject [really tired of it as it been beaten beyond death]

i NEVER said it made NO difference or that there was NO advantage to "less weight" in an auto race. That is OBVIOUS.

What i AM saying [have been saying] . . . it that the difference is VERY small [compared to the MULTITUDE of OTHER factors in a LONG race around an oval track] . . . very very small . . .

that's all . . . not the "1 mph" advantage quoted.

our POVs aren't "so differnent" as it is a matter of "degrees"

See, this is where your lack of actual understanding of racing shows. Even very small advantages in racing are big advantages, ESPECIALLY when multiplied over the course of a long race. You're dealing with people that will spend thousands, hundreds of thousands, or sometimes millions--depending on their level of racing--to often times gain less than a tenth of a second of time on the track. Hell we recently spent over 2 grand on a new shock package for a race car because we thought we could gain maybe a tenth of a second. In a highly competitive series, every single advantage you can get matters, no matter how small.

now small = big
:roll:

again your POV . . . . i DO understand BUT do NOT agree - there are way too many other factors mitigating that miniscule weight advantage.

Peace and aloha

apoppin' out


[you may now have the last word with no further interruption by me . . . NOTHING i can present to you will change your mind and frankly it isn't as IMPORTANT to ME as it is to YOU . . . keep on truckin' and good luck in your racing].

 

[misterj]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

lol. nascar is a hard concept to grasp for me. F1 definitely owns your moms.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I think you just take the counter-culture views on things, and you always blindly support the "oppressed" and blame who you think is the oppressor. You need to support her and hold her above all other male drivers, even if they've done nothing wrong.

Her looks and her gender is definitely not holding her back, career wise. While some of the other drivers may give her some heat, she's getting major support from the higher-ups in the IRL. Have you seen what she's done for their ratings? She brings in the money, which they like. No exec is going to hold back someone who brings in the revenue.

I would support her for her driving skill, but I'm not so liberal that I'm going to support her simply for being a woman that's going to "show up" the men. I don't subscribe to that liberal "ihatethewhitemaleoppressor" mindset.

Qualities that I'd look for in a race car driver would be described as "consistent", "skillful", "dominating", and "successful". People who seem to like her (for the wrong reasons) seem to use the words "refreshing", "empowered", "underdog", and "different". This is Indy car racing, this is not an Apple commercial or a feminist movement.

Keep things in their proper perspective. She's a race car driver, she did pretty well in that race and she finished 4th place, and if she delivers consistent performance over her career she should be able to win the race at least once. But save the liberal "empowered woman challenges male dominance" nonsense for a San Francisco coffeeshop.

You've got me all wrong. I am definitely not a liberal. You say she is no more deserving of credit than a man who finishes 4th and that being a woman should have no bearing on what people think of her abilities behind the wheel nor should the fact that she's a woman be honored. I think you're wrong. She is under a unique pressure that the male drivers do not have to contend with. It's like saying being a driver in F3000 and being a driver in F1 is the same thing. The pressure is far greater in F1 and I guarantee you she's feeling far more pressure than most of her fellow drivers in IRL right now.

People who seem to like her (for the wrong reasons) seem to use the words "refreshing", "empowered", "underdog", and "different". This is Indy car racing, this is not an Apple commercial or a feminist movement.

Please, everyone likes an underdog...well, unless the underdog is Robby Gordon. She is consisitent and skillful. Time will tell if she can be dominating and successful (winning races/championships).

I'd like to see her win and I will be following her career more closely now. My passion lies with F1 though. I watch every race and have been for years.

And don't tell me how to think or where I should express my point of view, it only makes you look insecure and you come off as condescending.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:
[/quote]

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

 

[Icanoutsmokeany1]

She can come with her defense. Her car weighs less and therfore will have a tendency to be more squirrelly. Gordon's complaint=pwned. Want a pansy.

 

[ohiopcgamer]

Robby Gordon is a loser at both NASCAR and IRL. He lost the respect of the other drivers in NASCAR to the point he had to bail and start his own team.

Danica drove an incredible race.. and although 100 lbs lighter she did have the disadvantage of driving one handed the whole race whilst she dried her nails... so Robby needs to lighten up.

 

[OvErHeAtInG]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: OvErHeAtInG

91TTZ says she wouldn't be a popular indy-car starlet except for she's good-looking. I think she wouldn't be good-looking at all except the fact she's a successful indy-car rookie. :heart:

You wouldn't consider her good looking if she wasn't an indy-car driver? I think she's good looking in general, no matter what her job is.

Yeh, she's pretty. The fact that she's a race driver multiplies her looks by about eight though

Danica drove an incredible race.. and although 100 lbs lighter she did have the disadvantage of driving one handed the whole race whilst she dried her nails... so Robby needs to lighten up.

ROFL

 

[Injury]

I'm not going to read through 400 posts to see if it's been said or refuted, nor do I plan on waiting for replies, but here's my take:

Racing is a game of advantages. The people with the best sponsors have a bigger advantage because they can afford better parts, crews, precision testing and equipment.

In the event that Mr. Gordon's team found out about some revolutionary technology before another team did and used it legitimately in a race, I would be hard pressed to believe that he would allow this advantage to be one that every team has.

Racing has little to do with physical ability and how you drive a car and more to do with taking the opportunities presented to you. Using a female as the driver is probably the best thought a racing team has had since radio communication. If the drivers cared more about the team aspect and less about the celebrity status that comes with being the driver, less of them would have a problem with surrendering their position to bring on female drivers who weigh much less, thus securing a major advantage.

Overall, I think he's just sexist and is pre-emptimg an excuse for his possible shortcomings.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Injury

Racing has little to do with physical ability and how you drive a car and more to do with taking the opportunities presented to you. Using a female as the driver is probably the best thought a racing team has had since radio communication.

Those statements were just ridiculous and show how little you know about racing. Racing has MUCH to do with physical ability and how you drive the car. If it wasn't, Michael Schumacher wouldn't be the highest-paid athlete in the world.

And using a female driver the best thought since radio communication? Are you on crack? The most we can hope for is equality between male and female drivers; having a female driver is not exactly the major advantage that radio communication was.

And if you had read the thread, you would have seen that in nearly all other leagues, the driver's weight is included in the total car weight, so having a light driver wouldn't be an advantage.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.[/quote]

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.
[/quote]


Jeff had more than enough money to go with whatever American racing series he wanted. His stepfather is rather well off, Jeff never wanted for good equipment in midgets, sprint cars or silver crown cars. He didn't actively pursue a ride in an Indy Car because he knew where the money and fame were, and went with that. It wasn't a choice made from lack of money, it was a choice to go with where the money was in American racing. I don't think he regrets his decision.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.

Jeff had more than enough money to go with whatever American racing series he wanted. His stepfather is rather well off, Jeff never wanted for good equipment in midgets, sprint cars or silver crown cars. He didn't actively pursue a ride in an Indy Car because he knew where the money and fame were, and went with that. It wasn't a choice made from lack of money, it was a choice to go with where the money was in American racing. I don't think he regrets his decision.[/quote]

Well from what I remember he tried to get a CART seat in 1990 but no one took him, and the rest is history. Ok so that doesn't really have to do anything with money but he did want to go to CART, and he was quoted before that Montoya/Gordon swap at Indy, that his dream was to drive Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. Seeing as how the guy has a pretty good record at Watkings Glen and Sears Point... who knows... I think road racing fans missed out on something special. But you're right, I honestly don't think he regrets his decision either because he could have left anytime but he's still in NASCAR. Oh well...

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.

Jeff had more than enough money to go with whatever American racing series he wanted. His stepfather is rather well off, Jeff never wanted for good equipment in midgets, sprint cars or silver crown cars. He didn't actively pursue a ride in an Indy Car because he knew where the money and fame were, and went with that. It wasn't a choice made from lack of money, it was a choice to go with where the money was in American racing. I don't think he regrets his decision.

Well from what I remember he tried to get a CART seat in 1990 but no one took him, and the rest is history. Ok so that doesn't really have to do anything with money but he did want to go to CART, and he was quoted before that Montoya/Gordon swap at Indy, that his dream was to drive Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. Seeing as how the guy has a pretty good record at Watkings Glen and Sears Point... who knows... I think road racing fans missed out on something special. But you're right, I honestly don't think he regrets his decision either because he could have left anytime but he's still in NASCAR. Oh well...

[/quote]

Yea, he for sure doesn't regret it. He's still young enough to have a chance to catch Richard Petty for all time championships. That's a massive accomplishment in racing. I think the only thing he regrets is ever meeting Brooke. His pocketbook took a hit on that one. LOL.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: trmiv

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.

Jeff had more than enough money to go with whatever American racing series he wanted. His stepfather is rather well off, Jeff never wanted for good equipment in midgets, sprint cars or silver crown cars. He didn't actively pursue a ride in an Indy Car because he knew where the money and fame were, and went with that. It wasn't a choice made from lack of money, it was a choice to go with where the money was in American racing. I don't think he regrets his decision.

Well from what I remember he tried to get a CART seat in 1990 but no one took him, and the rest is history. Ok so that doesn't really have to do anything with money but he did want to go to CART, and he was quoted before that Montoya/Gordon swap at Indy, that his dream was to drive Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. Seeing as how the guy has a pretty good record at Watkings Glen and Sears Point... who knows... I think road racing fans missed out on something special. But you're right, I honestly don't think he regrets his decision either because he could have left anytime but he's still in NASCAR. Oh well...

Yea, he for sure doesn't regret it. He's still young enough to have a chance to catch Richard Petty for all time championships. That's a massive accomplishment in racing. I think the only thing he regrets is ever meeting Brooke. His pocketbook took a hit on that one. LOL.[/quote]

You know what... everytime he won a race back then I was like... man what a bastard... winning races... championships... trophy wife... this guy has it all. Then he loses Evernham... gets booed by fans because he's been too perfect... and he gets divorced... lol.

I'm still a rainbow warrior fan.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: bR

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin
rules.

they don't believe their rules are flawed - even though this argument has been presented to them for YEARS. . . only the "armchair experts" here
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

Their failure to listen to reason is partly the reason why the IRL is not nearly as popular as Formula 1. Sadly, there is money to be made by being lazy and low-tech. Look at NASCAR. The cars weigh 3500 lbs and have pushrod V8's with carburetors. It's one step up from a junkyard derby.

I think that any driver that gets to take his pick would choose F1 over the other leagues. :disgust::thumbsup::thumbsdown:

I think Jeff Gordon would disagree with you.

I think if they had more money he would have ended up in CART... which couldve led him to F1.
[/quote]

I think Frank Williams was interested in testing him in a car a couple years ago. He and Juan Pablo Montoya traded cars at the road course at Indy a couple years ago and Jeff Gordon was only about 2 seconds off the previous year's qualifying pace after a few laps.

Jeff turned down the Williams test opportunity though.

 

[silvervipertb]

at those speeds, those one hundred pounds make a hell of a difference.