Gordon pissed because female Indy 500 driver 100 lbs lighter!?!?

[chuckywang]

I am pissed that Yao is 2 ft. taller than me and has an unfair advantage at basketball.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RiDE


Did you expect anything less of this place? You're always in car threads so you should know. A pretty girl races at the Indy 500 and everyone is suddenly racing experts when this is probably the first professional race they've seen.

So seeing lots of races makes you an expert?

i'd trust a pro-racers opinion over ANY of yours.
[edit: plural "you" . . . any of the posters here]
the fact that it is debated among them means there are two sides: 1) "matters" 2) "doesn't really matter"

I've been a fan of motorsports and have going to races since I was 12. That doesn't make me an expert, but that's what I'm trying to become in college so I can work in this field. I think you can see that there are people here who don't know what they're talking about, whether they agree or disagree with Gordon. Some people here have never seen a race on TV at all, and if Danica Patrick was a 100lbs guy they probably would have never even bothered to watch the race or criticize Robby Gordon. But Gordon would have still said something if there was a 100lbs guy with a chance of winning the Indy 500.

Honda was banned for two races in Formula one for racing with a car that was 6kg underweight. That's more or less 13lbs. I would take the opinion of the technical delegates and engineers over a driver's opinion in regards to matters like this.

If you're willing to say that he's complaining because he's a woman, then I guess it's safe to say that they're defending her because she's a woman as well.

the ONLY thing i am attempting to point out is that there are TWO sides among pro racers.

that signifies - to me at least - that there is merit to both sides of the argument. IF we are speaking in terms of "absolutes", then 'yes', it would be "fairer" to have the driver weighed with the car and his supplies 5 minutes before the race . . . . just not practical . . . so there are always compromises.

Until this slender WOman came on the scene, there was no spotlight on this "unfairness" . . . i saw no one trying to lose 25lbs to gain an "unfair" advantage . . . . what i AM saying is that the male ego has more to do with this than actual "science".

and "of course" some are defending her because she is a woman . . . .

Honda was banned because they broke the rules [period]

Well I agree that his ego was partially responsible for this complaint, but he is also making a valid point. That said, this could all be easily fixed if the IRL would include driver weight to the minimum weight required, which is the rule Honda was guilty of breaking. That rule in F1 is there for a reason and it isn't for male egos.

i have already agreed in principle that "ideally" the weights should be equal. The total - car, driver and supplies weight - should be equalized five minutes before the race. . . . but not practical.

Going around an oval track is different than road racing [or stock car racing or gokart racing or whatever. . . ]. The body that makes these rules, the IRL- up to this point - doesn't believe it significant as evidently do other PRO racers.

You don't think they considered it? Evidently it isn't important - until now.

100lbs just isn't much in an 800HP car where there are literally "endless variations" even though the cars appear more-or-less "identical".

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i have already agreed in principle that "ideally" the weights should be equal. The total - car, driver and supplies weight - should be equalized five minutes before the race. . . . but not practical.

Going around an oval track is different than road racing [or stock car racing or gokart racing or whatever. . . ]. The body that makes these rules, the IRL- up to this point - doesn't believe it significant as evidently do other PRO racers.

You don't think they considered it? Evidently it isn't important - until now.

100lbs just isn't much in an 800HP car where there are literally "endless variations" even though the cars appear more-or-less "identical".

It's enough to make a difference - they're that sensitive. More than a 1/2lb of tire pressure drop in one tire can feel like a flat tire.

Point is, nobody has complained before. And there have been drivers on the grid that have had a greater weight spread than Danica and Gordon.

Also, equalizing weights may not be the advantage Gordon thinks it is. For example, in F1 ballast is added to a car to make up for the drivers lack of weight (if needed). Thing is - they can place the ballast anywhere they want in the car. Sometimes there can be an advantage to having that weight in a location other than where the driver's but is. So, if they added 75lbs to Danica's car to make it equal with Gordon's he may still be at a disadvantage because his 75lbs is in the wrong spot causing ill handling.

 

[Xionide]

Dale Earnhardt would hit it.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: her34
i agree that gordon does have a point. it doesn't matter why he brings it up now (which most people seem hung up on), that has nothing do with the validity of point itself.

however if it's fair to equalize the weight of the car, should the handling also be equalized? she weighs less so they add weight to her car; however since she's weaker should resistance be added to other cars?

In other series, the ballast is put strategically in different parts of the cars depending on the race track and drivers have the choice of how much power steering assist they want.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
How do we know lots of people haven't been bitching about it for a long time but it finally got some airtime because it involved a hot chick?

That's what I'm assuming - that this couldn't have been the first time its come up, but for whatever reason the IRC chose to stick with the same rules.

To implement a 'Danika Rule' now would be PR suicide and a huge slap in the face to her when its been this way since the first indy race in 1911.

 

[CFster]

Yeah, let's turn it into a spec series - NOT.

That's not what the 500 is about.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I am pissed that Yao is 2 ft. taller than me and has an unfair advantage at basketball.

You have a thread on Patrick so I'm guessing you jumped on the bandwagon in supporting something you wouldn't usually have if she wasn't hot.

While we're making ridiculous analogies, what if Yao Ming played with a smaller ball while you're stuck with the normal one, but you both had to shoot it through the same hoop size?

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I am pissed that Yao is 2 ft. taller than me and has an unfair advantage at basketball.

You have a thread on Patrick so I'm guessing you jumped on the bandwagon in supporting something you wouldn't usually have if she wasn't hot.

While we're making ridiculous analogies, what if Yao Ming played with a smaller ball while you're stuck with the normal one, but you both had to shoot it through the same hoop size?

Why is it so ridiculous to "equalize" basketball, but not so ridiculous to equalize car racing?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: apoppin
i have already agreed in principle that "ideally" the weights should be equal. The total - car, driver and supplies weight - should be equalized five minutes before the race. . . . but not practical.

Going around an oval track is different than road racing [or stock car racing or gokart racing or whatever. . . ]. The body that makes these rules, the IRL- up to this point - doesn't believe it significant as evidently do other PRO racers.

You don't think they considered it? Evidently it isn't important - until now.

100lbs just isn't much in an 800HP car where there are literally "endless variations" even though the cars appear more-or-less "identical".

It's enough to make a difference - they're that sensitive. More than a 1/2lb of tire pressure drop in one tire can feel like a flat tire.

Point is, nobody has complained before. And there have been drivers on the grid that have had a greater weight spread than Danica and Gordon.

Sure, "it's enough to make a difference" . . . but not a PRACTICAL difference where tire pressure does vary along with fuel consumption and a million other variables - at least not a practical difference to many PRO racers [see the link i quoted]

I don't think you have to be a scientist or a genius to find out that the weight is not that big of a difference for 800 horsepower car.

POINT IS: they HAVE complained BEFORE . . . for at LEAST 3 YEARS! . . .

. . . and the IRL has not seen it necessary to change their rules.

And an OVAL track IS different than other types of racing. . . . i tend to think the IRL knows more about it then anyone is crediting them.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: shot
100 pounds isnt that much when compared to driving skills and race management.

Especially if it gives her a 1 mph advantage. Pffft.

1 MPH out of a, say, 120 MPH average (don't know the actual speeds) puts her more than 4 miles ahead by the end of the race, dumbass. 4 miles is pretty freaking far.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I am pissed that Yao is 2 ft. taller than me and has an unfair advantage at basketball.

You have a thread on Patrick so I'm guessing you jumped on the bandwagon in supporting something you wouldn't usually have if she wasn't hot.

While we're making ridiculous analogies, what if Yao Ming played with a smaller ball while you're stuck with the normal one, but you both had to shoot it through the same hoop size?

Why is it so ridiculous to "equalize" basketball, but not so ridiculous to equalize car racing?

Why can't a point guard play a center? If all the players in basketball played the same position then hey it might be comparable... but the IRL is almost a spec series and a lot of the teams have the same combination of chassis/engine resulting in very close competition. That basketball comparison is flawed because each position has their own role, racers are all playing the same position... they're all racing each other.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

It's cheating because the FIA believes it gave them an advantage.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: shot
100 pounds isnt that much when compared to driving skills and race management.

Especially if it gives her a 1 mph advantage. Pffft.

1 MPH out of a, say, 120 MPH average (don't know the actual speeds) puts her more than 4 miles ahead by the end of the race, dumbass. 4 miles is pretty freaking far.

Where does ANYONE get this oft-quoted "1 MPH advantage"

it is BOGUS

way overstated

ridiculous

UNreal
------------------

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

It's cheating because the FIA believes it gave them an advantage.

i call BS . . . you don't know what FIA believes . . . they were suspended for breaking the rules.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: shot
100 pounds isnt that much when compared to driving skills and race management.

Especially if it gives her a 1 mph advantage. Pffft.

1 MPH out of a, say, 120 MPH average (don't know the actual speeds) puts her more than 4 miles ahead by the end of the race, dumbass. 4 miles is pretty freaking far.

Where does ANYONE get this oft-quoted "1 MPH advantage"

it is BOGUS

way overstated

ridiculous

UNreal

Did you even read the article?

The IndyCar Series does not consider the weight of the driver in its race specifications. The car has to weigh at least 1,525 pounds before the fuel and driver are added, and teams in Indy have estimated that Patrick will gain close to 1 mph in speed because of her small stature.

How can you consider a quote from a driver valid, but a quote from the team bogus when they're all involved in doing the same thing for a living? If you say a driver should know what the difference is, then shouldn't the team also know since they're the ones monitoring the numbers?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: apoppin


Oh, you DO understand the upperlevels of competitive sports. . . what makes you so special?
:roll:

it is not a "big loophole" . . . at most a very small "oversight" that is being blown WAY out of proportion to its reality and ONLY because a small and very good driver is ALSO a woman.

it's more of a "male ego" thing.
:thumbsdown:

If you want people to take your views seriously, you should reduce the number of childish emoticons that you use. Your replies seem very typical of a young, inexperienced person. Too much emotion, not enough logic.

You obviously don't know much about the subject at hand, since you called her a "really skilled" driver. She's the second youngest driver on the course, and she's very inexperienced as far as this kind of racing goes. She's not exactly Shirley Muldowney. The only thing that she currently has is her sex appeal. She's more of a Anna Kournikova than a Martina Navritilova.

God, that's the worst argument I've heard yet. She clearly is a very skilled driver. Did you even watch the race? Inexperienced does not equal unskilled...moron. :roll: (emoticon inserted for your amusement)

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: shot
100 pounds isnt that much when compared to driving skills and race management.

Especially if it gives her a 1 mph advantage. Pffft.

1 MPH out of a, say, 120 MPH average (don't know the actual speeds) puts her more than 4 miles ahead by the end of the race, dumbass. 4 miles is pretty freaking far.

Where does ANYONE get this oft-quoted "1 MPH advantage"

it is BOGUS

way overstated

ridiculous

UNreal
------------------

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

It's cheating because the FIA believes it gave them an advantage.

i call BS . . . you don't know what FIA believes . . . they were suspended for breaking the rules.

WTF is there to believe? Why the hell would you break the rules or "exploit a loophole" if you don't think it will give you advantage? Do you think Honda is that stupid to just mistakenly "use fuel as a ballast"? They know what they were doing, and they knew it would have given them some sort of advantage. Look where they finished yesterday... nowhere.

 

[mugs]

EXCEPT lose weight

It would be very unhealthy for a normal sized adult male to drop down to 100 pounds.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I am pissed that Yao is 2 ft. taller than me and has an unfair advantage at basketball.

well it would be more fun if he took some roids though

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

It's cheating because the FIA believes it gave them an advantage.

It's cheating because the FIA implements rules and BAR broke those rules. Do you hear Ferrari bitching because there are many more Michelin runners with 4 times the testing miles under their belt? That's an extremely unfair advantage. But hey, the rules are the rules.

Edit-I hope the IRL changes the rules and I hope Danica Patrick wins the Indy 500 next year just to shut blowhards like Robby Gordon the fvck up.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: shot
100 pounds isnt that much when compared to driving skills and race management.

Especially if it gives her a 1 mph advantage. Pffft.

1 MPH out of a, say, 120 MPH average (don't know the actual speeds) puts her more than 4 miles ahead by the end of the race, dumbass. 4 miles is pretty freaking far.

Where does ANYONE get this oft-quoted "1 MPH advantage"

it is BOGUS

way overstated

ridiculous

UNreal

Did you even read the article?

The IndyCar Series does not consider the weight of the driver in its race specifications. The car has to weigh at least 1,525 pounds before the fuel and driver are added, and teams in Indy have estimated that Patrick will gain close to 1 mph in speed because of her small stature.

How can you consider a quote from a driver valid, but a quote from the team bogus when they're all involved in doing the same thing for a living? If you say a driver should know what the difference is, then shouldn't the team also know since they're the ones monitoring the numbers?

IF it was a constant +1 MPH over the ENTIRE race, then the advantage would be "real". . . . and ALL the little guys would win all of the time - everything else being equal . . . we'd notice the "trend"
:roll:

Why do you consider the IRL's refusal to change the rules for its larger cars suggest to you?

Did you read the whole articel?

"Right off the bat, a guy my size is spotting her 105 pounds," Gordon said. "That's the reason she's so much faster."

Gordon never planned to race in the Indy 500 this season

So do you really think THAT's the reason "she's so much faster".

and "WHAT teams"? Gordons?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mugs

EXCEPT lose weight

It would be very unhealthy for a normal sized adult male to drop down to 100 pounds.

IF -100 lbs gives +1 MPH advantage . . .
{which is BOGUS . . . "according to "some teams" . . . yeah Gordon's]

. . . THEN losing 25lbs would ALSO give a significant advantage . . . at least one of those complainers would do well to lose for his health anyway
:thumbsdown:

 

[JulesMaximus]

"Right off the bat, a guy my size is spotting her 105 pounds," Gordon said.

"That's the reason she's so much faster."

So, at best he should be expected to finish 2nd? That's no small accomplishment IMO. Certainly not enough to not even try. Pussy. God, I hate him now more than ever after this thread.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: apoppin



less than 1% "real-world" difference . . WAY [way] less . . . SKILL is the biggest factor [then luck]
:roll:

i didn't have to search too far,

I guess thats why Honda was suspended for 2 races for being just 11lbs light.

BAR was suspended for cheating. You are over simplifying the depths of their deception.

It's cheating because the FIA believes it gave them an advantage.

It's cheating because the FIA implements rules and BAR broke those rules. Do you hear Ferrari bitching because there are many more Michelin runners with 4 times the testing miles under their belt? That's an extremely unfair advantage. But hey, the rules are the rules.

The point is, that minimum weight = driver+car rule is there to prevent lighter drivers from getting an advantage which is what this whole freaking thread is about.

I don't hear Ferrari bitching but I hear everyone else bitching about Ferrari testing more than they are AND THERE ARE NO RULES regarding testing days, only the teams who have commited themselves to what used to be the GPWC is adhering to the 30 day test rule. Besides, Ferrari took on this exclusive relationship with Bridgestone, and they said they will take the good with the bad.