Got Gas? U.S. Economy to Worsen as Gas Prices Skyrocket

[Fenixgoon]

4-21-2011

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...cut-6-plus-predicted-for-tri-state-very-soon/

$5 Gas Hits Connecticut; $6-Plus Predicted For Tri-State Very Soon


Drivers Say The Idea Of Summer Vacations Just Disappeared


With the unrest in the Middle East, some economists say $5 a gallon gas will become the norm.

It’s not like we haven’t seen $5 a gallon at the pump before — as recently as 2008. It was just something we never wanted to see again.

if a rise in gas price is causing people to cancel their summer vacations, perhaps they should reconsider their financial position and the wisdom of taking such a vacation in the first place.

even at $6/gal, my gas costs rise from $160-$200/mo to $240-$300/mo, or about $1200/year (that's from a minimum of 250 miles/week to work, plus other travel). yes, a pretty solid amount, but if that's breaking people's banks, they seriously need to reconsider *a lot* of things.

quite frankly, i think half of all commodity pricing is driven by pure speculation. libya accounts for a small fraction of global production. the united states doesn't even import all that much from the middle east (canada is our #1 importer).

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

of the top 15 importers of crude, only 3 are in the ME. more are in africa. of total petroleum imports, again only 3. canada and mexico are #1 and #2 for both crude and total petroleum imports, respectively. to me, it looks like a bunch of assholes want to drive the price up just to make a couple of bucks.

 

[Rebel44]

if a rise in gas price is causing people to cancel their summer vacations, perhaps they should reconsider their financial position and the wisdom of taking such a vacation in the first place.

even at $6/gal, my gas costs rise from $160-$200/mo to $240-$300/mo, or about $1200/year (that's from a minimum of 250 miles/week to work, plus other travel). yes, a pretty solid amount, but if that's breaking people's banks, they seriously need to reconsider *a lot* of things.

quite frankly, i think half of all commodity pricing is driven by pure speculation. libya accounts for a small fraction of global production. the united states doesn't even import all that much from the middle east (canada is our #1 importer).

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

of the top 15 importers of crude, only 3 are in the ME. more are in africa. of total petroleum imports, again only 3. canada and mexico are #1 and #2 for both crude and total petroleum imports, respectively. to me, it looks like a bunch of assholes want to drive the price up just to make a couple of bucks.

You might hane not noticed but oil is global commodity....

 

[desy]

@ Doppel
Read up on undulating plateau of peak oil. Because peak oil is happening now many differing views how it will manifest itself, but the plateau model is the one that makes the most sense to me and I've read about peak oil everyday for the last 5-6 years.

As a globally traded commodity if oil rises high it can have as many negative effects as it does positive for the investors or buyers of the commodity. If the fundamentals aren't sound don't worry the price will correct itself, and as a consumer take measures to protect yourself from the volitility.

Today we have more money to do what we want to do than historically
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/09/high-cost-of-living-vs-cost-of-living.html
We are spoiled, and yes it hurts when you have to take a step back but you could have been spending up to 60% of your income on the basics of life rather than the 30% we do today

 

[WhipperSnapper]

"Drivers Say the Idea of Summer Vacations Just Disappeared"

Definitely. Heck, even driving 220 miles round trip to go shopping at a larger city is now burdensome, now costing about $28. I've also thought about going on a 1-day driving trip to visit a nearby national park, but it's about 180 miles one-way, or 360 round trip (12 gallons of gas), making the cost about $48 now. Years ago when it was a $1.50 it wasn't a big issue. The higher prices will definitely affect people's vacationing behavior.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

if a rise in gas price is causing people to cancel their summer vacations, perhaps they should reconsider their financial position and the wisdom of taking such a vacation in the first place.

It's a large issue depending on the length and nature of your trip, especially if you drive a less fuel-efficient vehicle. (What if you want to drive 3000 miles round trip to go camping out West and you want to take your SUV?)

Let's assume you get 25 mpg. You need 120 gallons of gas to make the trip. At $4/gallon it's going to cost you a whopping $480! That's very significant to some people who might otherwise make the trip.

 

[desy]

Communication And Transportation In The Early 1900's

Transportation and communication are closely linked and one
would not be possible without the other. Development in
both of these areas have brought many conveniences and
comforts to the average person. During the 1800's, people
seldom left their towns or farms, because travel was
difficult even for short distances. Only the very wealthy
could have the luxurious accommodation for those long
journeys. In 1890, people traveled an average of only 200
miles a year away from their home communities

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/06/16/gas-prices-and-number-of-miles-driven-1956-2009/

In 1960 people used to drive an avg of 4000 miles per year

 

[Chaotic42]

Not to be Comrade Question here, but what if this isn't such a bad thing? The timing sucks, but we all knew that we would have to transfer our energy backbone off of oil. This is just a step on the way. Things will get worse, but we don't have a lot of choice. It will be a long, expensive, painful process, but not as bad as if we put the transfer off for another 20 years.

I think Obama is fine with higher prices. IIRC he said that he wanted them at this level. Now he just needs to start investing in other forms of energy. The first thing they need to do is overhaul the power grid since ICE would appear to be a dying concept.

 

[desy]

American lifestyle is not negotionable remember?
Consume as much as you want. . . . .

 

[Doppel]

Read up on undulating plateau of peak oil.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm scared to latch onto peak oil too much because it's a moniker slightly associated with mad max and cannibals killing people for a gallon of gas--at least a simple understanding of it. There are too many scientists who've looked at the numbers, too much recent data, though, to pretend that oil is not going to become more of a pressing concern. And it's just total fantasy in my opinion to think we'll be paying $2/gallon gas ever again in a healthy economy.

I still think most people do not realize what they spend on gas. If they did my neighborhood wouldn't be full of SUVs. I already drive an exceptionally fuel efficient vehicle and am about to buy a second because even if gas drops another dollar I can still save substantial $/month.

 

[Paul98]

This is going to hurt bad in the short term but in the long term should help us, as it's one of the things that will actually force us to change.

 

[dmcowen674]

It's a large issue depending on the length and nature of your trip, especially if you drive a less fuel-efficient vehicle. (What if you want to drive 3000 miles round trip to go camping out West and you want to take your SUV?)

Let's assume you get 25 mpg. You need 120 gallons of gas to make the trip. At $4/gallon it's going to cost you a whopping $480! That's very significant to some people who might otherwise make the trip.

$6 in Chicago area

4-22-2011

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/04/22/gulp-gas-prices-could-hit-6-a-gallon-one-expert-says/

Gas Prices Could Hit $6

Commodities analyst Richard Hastings says don’t look for any relief soon.

“This year, you get more than $4 a gallon … all the way through until September,” he says.

That may be the optimistic view. If supply disruptions occur, look out.
“That could easily send prices at the pump slightly above $6 a gallon, and then they would start to come back down after that,” Hastings says. “But we could see an amazing spike.”
===================================
Remember Trump said $8 in February


This is all pre-planned

 

[Chaotic42]

In the south we get a lot of crap about electricity usage for air conditioning. Maybe we should tax the ever loving shit out of heating oil.

 

[shiner]

It's a large issue depending on the length and nature of your trip, especially if you drive a less fuel-efficient vehicle. (What if you want to drive 3000 miles round trip to go camping out West and you want to take your SUV?)

Let's assume you get 25 mpg. You need 120 gallons of gas to make the trip. At $4/gallon it's going to cost you a whopping $480! That's very significant to some people who might otherwise make the trip.

I'll be making a 1300ish mile, one way, trip pulling our travel trailer this August. All at about 14mpg and I'll be damned if gas prices will affect my plans.

 

[dmcowen674]

I'll be making a 1300ish mile, one way, trip pulling our travel trailer this August.

All at about 14mpg and I'll be damned if gas prices will affect my plans.

You are rich, of course it's not going to affect you.

 

[dmcowen674]

In the south we get a lot of crap about electricity usage for air conditioning.

Maybe we should tax the ever loving shit out of heating oil.

It already is and New York City just put a ban on heating oil:

4-21-2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/n...ng-oils-at-buildings.html?src=me&ref=nyregion

City Issues Rule to Ban Dirtiest Oils at Buildings



Buildings in New York City will be required to phase out using the most-polluting grades of heating oil under a new regulation that is expected to improve air quality significantly and make black smoke billowing from smokestacks a thing of the past.

The new rule, announced on Thursday by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg as part of an update to his environmental agenda, known as PlaNYC, affects about 10,000 buildings that burn the dirtiest types of heating oil: No. 6, the cheapest oil pumped into aging boilers; and No. 4, another heavy oil that is only slightly less noxious.

Only 1 percent of buildings in the city burn the dirty oil, officials said, but are responsible for more than 85 percent of all the soot pollution from buildings.

Under the new rule, by 2015, existing boilers must switch from No. 6 oil to a low-sulfur version of the No. 4 heating oil or to an equivalent cleaner fuel. Any newly installed boiler would have to burn an even less polluting grade — low-sulfur No. 2 oil — or natural gas or an equivalent low-emission fuel, which would in effect eventually phase out No. 4 oil.
Boilers not replaced by 2030 would need to be modified to meet the new regulations.



More than 200 public schools are among the buildings that must make the switch.



Compliance costs will be borne by tenants in the form of higher rents or maintenance charges.

It will cost about $10,000 or less to convert boilers to use No. 4 oil — and much more to switch to No. 2 oil or natural gas.

 

[Doppel]

Remember Trump said $8 in February


This is all pre-planned

He's also a birther. This makes him idiotic, but not as idiotic as your posts.

 

[potluv]

In the south we get a lot of crap about electricity usage for air conditioning. Maybe we should tax the ever loving shit out of heating oil.

Maybe it's time for building codes that call for dwellings to be constructed out of sound materials, instead of stick framed easy to construct plywood lined poorly insulated flimsy brick veneered crap. Europeans don't even have air conditioning because their homes are masonry constructed, although just using that method of construction in the US not only makes the home:
1. Far outlasts any stick framed or wooden framed dwelling
2. Lower energy consumption due to better real insulation
3. Withstand a tornado or hurricane
4. Lower maintenance costs, no need for termite control, or constantly spraying chemicals for pest/insect control

But... Americans want everything fast and cheap, just can't do that with masonry so it'll never happen and dwellings in this country for everyone other than the real upper class that can afford multi million dollar homes will be built like shit.

 

[dmcowen674]

For those that have electric cars they are coming after your wallets big time

4-23-2011

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_electric_car_fees

Washington considers nation's first electric car fee


Drivers of electric cars may have left the gas pump behind, but there's one expense they may not be able to shake: paying to maintain the roads.

After years of urging residents to buy fuel-efficient cars and giving them tax breaks to do it, Washington state lawmakers are considering a measure to charge them a $100 annual fee — what would be the nation's first electric car fee.


State lawmakers grappling with a $5 billion deficit are facing declining gas tax revenue, which means less money to maintain or improve roads.


"Electric vehicles put just as much wear and tear on our roads as gas vehicles," said Democratic state Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, the bill's lead sponsor. "This simply ensures that they contribute their fair share to the upkeep of our roads."


An Oregon bill would charge drivers of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles up to 1.43 cents for each mile they drive

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Road maintenance fees for electric cars might make sense if the majority of the people or even a large percentage were driving electric cars. However, when few people are driving them and when we're trying to encourage electric car research and development and when they are lighter vehicles that don't put much wear and tear on the roads, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[desy]

Agreed, its premature to start charging electric cars xtra taxes

Here is something that could triple hybrid efficiency
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/shock-wave-engi.php

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The same could be done for the smaller fuel efficient cars as well. Oops the taxes are paid at the gas pump. Utilize services (ie roads) pay a tax. Unfair treatment not found.

 

[Doppel]

Agreed, its premature to start charging electric cars xtra taxes

Here is something that could triple hybrid efficiency
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/shock-wave-engi.php

They don't even have a prototype of that yet, unfortunately.

 

[desy]

Well
They say they want it on the road in 3 yrs. remarkable if they can accomplish that
I' m a glass half full guy but NOTHING I read about peak oil leads to bridging the gap between a technology fix and collapse. Lots of interesting tech but unless its scalable and soon we will feel the pointy end of the stick.

Here in NA we have sooo much overhead built into our system that we can really live a lot simpler without dying. I'm not so sure about the rest of the world thats living on the margins already. . . . .

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That Shock Wave combustion chamber sounds revolutionary. I'd never heard of it before. Thanks for the link.

 

[werepossum]

It already is and New York City just put a ban on heating oil:

4-21-2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/n...ng-oils-at-buildings.html?src=me&ref=nyregion

City Issues Rule to Ban Dirtiest Oils at Buildings



Buildings in New York City will be required to phase out using the most-polluting grades of heating oil under a new regulation that is expected to improve air quality significantly and make black smoke billowing from smokestacks a thing of the past.

The new rule, announced on Thursday by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg as part of an update to his environmental agenda, known as PlaNYC, affects about 10,000 buildings that burn the dirtiest types of heating oil: No. 6, the cheapest oil pumped into aging boilers; and No. 4, another heavy oil that is only slightly less noxious.

Only 1 percent of buildings in the city burn the dirty oil, officials said, but are responsible for more than 85 percent of all the soot pollution from buildings.

Under the new rule, by 2015, existing boilers must switch from No. 6 oil to a low-sulfur version of the No. 4 heating oil or to an equivalent cleaner fuel. Any newly installed boiler would have to burn an even less polluting grade — low-sulfur No. 2 oil — or natural gas or an equivalent low-emission fuel, which would in effect eventually phase out No. 4 oil.
Boilers not replaced by 2030 would need to be modified to meet the new regulations.



More than 200 public schools are among the buildings that must make the switch.



Compliance costs will be borne by tenants in the form of higher rents or maintenance charges.

It will cost about $10,000 or less to convert boilers to use No. 4 oil — and much more to switch to No. 2 oil or natural gas.

I can't stand Bloomberg but if 1% are causing 85% of the pollution, that ban sounds like an excellent idea to me.