Government releases UFO files

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Dari
Some interesting stuff in there for those who want to believe.

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Let me guess, they're all weather balloons or mass hallucinations?

Both of which are order of magnitude more likely than an explanation which postulates extraterrestrials.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Why is that? If we had the capability we would visit other planets so why wouldnt they?

Because much like all skeptics this one follows the "absence of proof IS proof of absence"

WRONG. The correct (and coincidentally skeptical position) is:
Unless there is positive evidence to support a given claim, the only rational position is to assume it's false.

Similarly, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You can't prove invisible unicorns that love gasoline fumes aren't the real reason that cars go down the highway, but you wouldn't believe that claim unless someone provided some damn good evidence to support that.

So out of the countless millions of reports about UFO sightings, encounters, and abductions; complete with billions of pages of stories, descriptions, and pictures... NONE of them are genuine? My friend, all it takes is one, and while I wouldn't put a combination of lies, delusions, and embellishments past a race infatuated with money and glamour, making these assertions can only lead to (PUN alert) alienation and ridicule for the average Joe who doesn't watch the skies or sit in circles where UFO discussion is openly debated.

You can pigeonhole all these anomalies into government projects, weather abnormalities, and out-right hoaxes to name a few all you like, the fact remains that until we are "told" they do exist the truth will forever be muddled and no grainy picture, fantastic story, or jumpy video is going to break the debate wide open. It's a matter of faith really, we're never going to be told the truth (assuming truth is being suppressed) unless something amazing happens so it's up to us to collect the information available and come up with our on damn theory. Then of course, it's just a theory, and so easy for people to poke holes through and criticize without having a scientific way of proving it. It's just one of those things I wish people would take more seriously, I know there's going to be fanatics at both ends of the curve but even now it seems most people feel comfy swimming on the skeptics side of the pool. It's cool though, I'm happy coming up with my own theories and will take UFOlogy over religion anyday of the week and 50 times on Sunday during whatever mass you attend (not you, but a majority) because I'll believe in conscious aliens who mastered galactic space travel before I believe in a conscious god that has my back and is always watching me.

Whew, that's a lot of commas.

No, they should not be dismissed out of hand, but there is absolutely nothing preventing them ALL form being hoaxes, hallucinations or simply mistakes. The "there are so many reports that ONE of them must be real" argument is fallacious.

Besides, what constitutes a real UFO? Being really unidentified? All finding a real unidentified would prove would be that you saw something and you don't know what it is. Jumping immediately, then, to an extraterrestrial explanation is also fallacious.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Juddog
To the people stating that going faster than light is impossible, you need to realize that the speed of light is simply a barrier to us that we don't know yet how to travel faster than right now. We've already exceeded light speed in lab experiments. Just because there is that limit which currently stops us doesn't mean that it will always be there.

Faster than light (FTL) travel is categorically not a technological problem. It's a physical problem. The lab experiment you are referring to is probably the Cerenkov experiment that shows how a charged particle can create a disruption in the local EM field. In some cases this disruption can travel FTL, causing the EM equivalent of a sonic boom (Cerenkov radiation).

The important thing to note here is that this can only occur in a medium, through with light travels slower than in free space. The local disruption travels FTL in the medium, but it does not exceed c.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
That is cool. Funny that the UK beat the "Home of the Free" in releasing such information.

What?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: SirStev0
That is cool. Funny that the UK beat the "Home of the Free" in releasing such information.

What?

Didn't the USA release a big-ass UFO file recently? I seem to recall something like that happening but my memory may be playing tricks.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
So out of the countless millions of reports about UFO sightings, encounters, and abductions; complete with billions of pages of stories, descriptions, and pictures... NONE of them are genuine?

1) exactly
2) where are you getting those numbers?
3) there are "billions" more reports of religious events than UFO events and I stand strongly on the side of none of them being genuine interactions with the creator of the universe. How many sightings of Nessie, Bigfoot and Elvis have there been? I'm gonna go way out on a limb and say all of those encounters are fake or simply drug induced too.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Juddog
To the people stating that going faster than light is impossible, you need to realize that the speed of light is simply a barrier to us that we don't know yet how to travel faster than right now. We've already exceeded light speed in lab experiments. Just because there is that limit which currently stops us doesn't mean that it will always be there.

Faster than light (FTL) travel is categorically not a technological problem. It's a physical problem. The lab experiment you are referring to is probably the Cerenkov experiment that shows how a charged particle can create a disruption in the local EM field. In some cases this disruption can travel FTL, causing the EM equivalent of a sonic boom (Cerenkov radiation).

The important thing to note here is that this can only occur in a medium, through with light travels slower than in free space. The local disruption travels FTL in the medium, but it does not exceed c.

Interesting point. Seems he forgot that light and light-speed are not the same.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Juddog
To the people stating that going faster than light is impossible, you need to realize that the speed of light is simply a barrier to us that we don't know yet how to travel faster than right now. We've already exceeded light speed in lab experiments. Just because there is that limit which currently stops us doesn't mean that it will always be there.

There are many beginning ideas already on how to exceed the speed of light, and the speed of light has only been known for about a hundred years. We humans as a civilization still have a huge amount of technological improvement that we can go through. The speed of sound used to be thought of as unbreakable as well.

Or as one of the scientist on tv said "we tend to think of alien civilizations that are hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than us, what if they are millions of years more advanced ?"

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Juddog
To the people stating that going faster than light is impossible, you need to realize that the speed of light is simply a barrier to us that we don't know yet how to travel faster than right now. We've already exceeded light speed in lab experiments. Just because there is that limit which currently stops us doesn't mean that it will always be there.

Faster than light (FTL) travel is categorically not a technological problem. It's a physical problem. The lab experiment you are referring to is probably the Cerenkov experiment that shows how a charged particle can create a disruption in the local EM field. In some cases this disruption can travel FTL, causing the EM equivalent of a sonic boom (Cerenkov radiation).

The important thing to note here is that this can only occur in a medium, through with light travels slower than in free space. The local disruption travels FTL in the medium, but it does not exceed c.

Interesting point. Seems he forgot that light and light-speed are not the same.

I'd also like to state that although I'm massively sceptical ot FTL travel I haven't totally ruled it out. I have read some interesting theories, most of which require some as-yet undiscovered exotic matter. I think my favourite contender so far is the Alcubierre Drive, which obviously isn't without it's faults.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Why is that? If we had the capability we would visit other planets so why wouldnt they?

I would say anyone who completely discredits every sighting is stupid for not realizing the chances of life more advanced than us to exist in the infinite volume of space is pretty high.

Sigh. Do I have to address this again. See my post here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ght_key=y&keyword1=UFO

Believing UFOs are actively visiting earth requires the following assumptions.
1. There has at some point been life off earth
2. That there is currently life off earth.
3. That there is currently life off earth but relatively nearby (in this galaxy).
4. That the nearby life off earth has evolved intelligence and still exists.
5. That this intelligent life has developed a scientific civilization (see whales / elephants).
6. That the life off earth and nearby with a scientific civilization has developed spaceflight.
7. That the current life off earth nearby with intelligence and a scientific civilization and spaceflight has noticed us.
8. That the current life off earth nearby with intelligence and a scientific civilization and spaceflight and that has noticed us has a means to get here in a timely manner.
9. That the current life off earth nearby with intelligence and a scientific civilization and spaceflight and that has noticed us and a means to get here in a timely manner has visited us yet refuses to make contact in a public way, preferring to kidnap rednecks.
10. That the current life off earth nearby with intelligence and a scientific civilization and spaceflight and that has noticed us and a means to get here in a timely manner and visits us yet refuses to make contact in a public way, preferring to kidnap rednecks has been able to be covered up by the government as easily explainable phenomenon.

I will accept 1-3 as extremely likely, 4 as possible and anything else as highly unlikely at best. Especially when the alternate explanation is "crackpots are seeing patterns where there are none"

I believe this is the idea behind Alien encounters:

Say you were a scientist in the Amazon. You are in a newly discovered valley. In this valley you find a swarm of large, hive minded hornets that are different than any bees you have ever observed. You want to study the hornets and learn about their habits and life. You know the hornets are capable of harm and have observed them killing and feeding on a larger animal. How would you approach studying them?

Let's make some guesses.
You would approach it first at a distance observing them. You would watch for a long time and try to interfere as little as possible. You would eventually need to get samples and study them. It would probably be easiest to set traps to collect them with out the rest of the herd noticing. Ones that make mistakes would therefore be the targets. You may even want to re-release some of them back into the community with tracking devices and instruments in order to record their activity.


This is just a theoretical |) look but I remember during shark week this past year watching a show where they were trying to observe a new type of Coral Shark and employed a similar method. It does make sense.


I'd hope that if there was some sort of spacefaring race of humanoids that encountered our planet that they would be willing to greet us and communicate with us not study us as lower organisms. Taking a look at some of our tendencies though, I could see why an intelligent organism may want to avoid our species IE the current US policy of Strike first ask questions (make reasons) later.
I also wonder how we'd approach a new species if we ever found one. How we'd act towards them.

You jumped right past my point into assuming they exist. Even if my hyperbole about rednecks is wrong, all my other points stand. It is unlikely to the point of being preposterous -- and in order to convince me, you'd have to produce a spacecraft with extremely advanced tech and a living alien.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Why is that? If we had the capability we would visit other planets so why wouldnt they?

Because much like all skeptics this one follows the "absence of proof IS proof of absence" philosophy and has already made up their mind on the issue. Ergo, if you oppose their all-knowing view of the cosmos based on this intellectual scientific principle, you are clearly stupid. It makes sense when you think about it, the problem is it doesn't take much thinking and the brain power used is so small it's immeasurable, but I digress..

BrokenVisage, the problem with believing in all of these conspiracy theories is that you form a track record in people's minds. You believe in JFK conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, alien abductions, you believe in them all.

While someone may be inclined to consider the validity of one of them, when you take into account that you believe in all of them it's a near certainty that you're a certified nutcase.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Crackpot US fighter pilots and crackpot airline pilots

usa = nutjobs amiright

Notorious, you're in the same padded room with BrokenRecord.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
Because much like all skeptics this one follows the "absence of proof IS proof of absence" philosophy and has already made up their mind on the issue. Ergo, if you oppose their all-knowing view of the cosmos based on this intellectual scientific principle, you are clearly stupid. It makes sense when you think about it, the problem is it doesn't take much thinking and the brain power used is so small it's immeasurable, but I digress..

BrokenVisage, the problem with believing in all of these conspiracy theories is that you form a track record in people's minds. You believe in JFK conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, alien abductions, you believe in them all.

While someone may be inclined to consider the validity of one of them, when you take into account that you believe in all of them it's a near certainty that you're a certified nutcase.

There's a name for people like Broken Visage - "fantasy prone individuals". It's a nice way of saying "stupid motherfucker".

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

There's a name for people like Broken Visage - "fantasy prone individuals". It's a nice way of saying "stupid motherfucker".

lol

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
*snip*
While someone may be inclined to consider the validity of one of them, when you take into account that you believe in all of them it's a near certainty that you're a certified nutcase.

There's a name for people like Broken Visage - "fantasy prone individuals". It's a nice way of saying "stupid motherfucker".

I feel the quote in my sig tingling.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Crackpot US fighter pilots and crackpot airline pilots

usa = nutjobs amiright

Notorious, you're in the same padded room with BrokenRecord.

i thought my sig destroyed you last year.

have another taste :laugh:

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Why is that? If we had the capability we would visit other planets so why wouldnt they?

Because much like all skeptics this one follows the "absence of proof IS proof of absence" philosophy and has already made up their mind on the issue. Ergo, if you oppose their all-knowing view of the cosmos based on this intellectual scientific principle, you are clearly stupid. It makes sense when you think about it, the problem is it doesn't take much thinking and the brain power used is so small it's immeasurable, but I digress..

BrokenVisage, the problem with believing in all of these conspiracy theories is that you form a track record in people's minds. You believe in JFK conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, alien abductions, you believe in them all.

While someone may be inclined to consider the validity of one of them, when you take into account that you believe in all of them it's a near certainty that you're a certified nutcase.

And hereeeee he is, the one who REALLY does know all and see all. 91TTZZ9 or however the fuck you type your name, you have absolutely no idea what I believe in and to what degree I believe in certain things, you just assume I'm a kook would is easily fooled when stuff like this comes up. Oh sure, you could go back and quote posts I've made and I could do the same with you and your close-minded, sheltered, unwavering, and oft ridiculous stances as well.

Fact is, you don't know shit about me and what I truly do believe in. I've never been shy about voicing my DOUBTS about 9/11, the JFK thing is very mysterious and though I wasn't around when it happened I conclude (along with MANY other "nutcases") we're not being told the truth, and alien abductions.. *throws hands up* when did I say I fully believe them? Please, stop making this shit up. The nutcase here is the one who refuses to even discuss alternative viewpoints and pulls stuff right out of his ass to slander other members with claims they didn't even publicly endorse. I swear to you, if we meet on South St. one day I'll happily give you a piece of my mind without a monitor and keyboard protecting you and giving you an hour to word and phrase your posts so meticulously you pompous piece of shit.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Why is that? If we had the capability we would visit other planets so why wouldnt they?

Because much like all skeptics this one follows the "absence of proof IS proof of absence" philosophy and has already made up their mind on the issue. Ergo, if you oppose their all-knowing view of the cosmos based on this intellectual scientific principle, you are clearly stupid. It makes sense when you think about it, the problem is it doesn't take much thinking and the brain power used is so small it's immeasurable, but I digress..

BrokenVisage, the problem with believing in all of these conspiracy theories is that you form a track record in people's minds. You believe in JFK conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracies, alien abductions, you believe in them all.

While someone may be inclined to consider the validity of one of them, when you take into account that you believe in all of them it's a near certainty that you're a certified nutcase.

And hereeeee he is, the one who REALLY does know all and see all. 91TTZZ9 or however the fuck you type your name, you have absolutely no idea what I believe in and to what degree I believe in certain things, you just assume I'm a kook would is easily fooled when stuff like this comes up. Oh sure, you could go back and quote posts I've made and I could do the same with you and your close-minded, sheltered, unwavering, and oft ridiculous stances as well.

Fact is, you don't know shit about me and what I truly do believe in. I've never been shy about voicing my DOUBTS about 9/11, the JFK thing is very mysterious and though I wasn't around when it happened I conclude (along with MANY other "nutcases") we're not being told the truth, and alien abductions.. *throws hands up* when did I say I fully believe them? Please, stop making this shit up. The nutcase here is the one who refuses to even discuss alternative viewpoints and pulls stuff right out of his ass to slander other members with claims they didn't even publicly endorse. I swear to you, if we meet on South St. one day I'll happily give you a piece of my mind without a monitor and keyboard protecting you and giving you an hour to word and phrase your posts so meticulously you pompous piece of shit.

They don't make straightjackets like they used to.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
And hereeeee he is, the one who REALLY does know all and see all. 91TTZZ9 or however the fuck you type your name, you have absolutely no idea what I believe in and to what degree I believe in certain things, you just assume I'm a kook would is easily fooled when stuff like this comes up. Oh sure, you could go back and quote posts I've made and I could do the same with you and your close-minded, sheltered, unwavering, and oft ridiculous stances as well.

Fact is, you don't know shit about me and what I truly do believe in. I've never been shy about voicing my DOUBTS about 9/11, the JFK thing is very mysterious and though I wasn't around when it happened I conclude (along with MANY other "nutcases") we're not being told the truth, and alien abductions.. *throws hands up* when did I say I fully believe them? Please, stop making this shit up. The nutcase here is the one who refuses to even discuss alternative viewpoints and pulls stuff right out of his ass to slander other members with claims they didn't even publicly endorse. I swear to you, if we meet on South St. one day I'll happily give you a piece of my mind without a monitor and keyboard protecting you and giving you an hour to word and phrase your posts so meticulously you pompous piece of shit.

They don't make straightjackets like they used to.

It's always fun when a wall-o-text gets destroyed with 8 words. Makes me feel warm inside.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Anyone who believes aliens from another planet visit our planet is clearly stupid.

Can you prove they did not visit? If not, then how can you call anyone stupid? This is a big ol universe and anything could be possible out there.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Yay for quantum entanglement! It is however, NOT faster than light travel. The experiment you speak about also has mysteriously not been replicated.

The case is simple. The universe is utterly huge, and to travel at any kind of reasonable speed to traverse it requires MORE ENERGY THAN IS IN IT. Worm holes (if they exists at all, and they may), would also require more energy than is in the universe to hold open. Folding space presents similar obstacles.

Yes I "KNOW" aliens have never visited here (unless we are them, and we were bacteriaish [is it bacteriaessent?] in nature when we arrived).

This math will never become obsolete.

You are speculating that what we currently know of as far as technology is the be all end all. Maybe lightspeed to an alien species that is 1 billion years older then us, is what 2+2 is to us. Maybe they are so far beyond lightspeed that they dont even study it anymore because it is such an uneffiecient means of travel.

Expand your mind my friend.

It is pointless trying to argue with SphinxnihpS. People like him go by the "boundaries" we as humans have discovered. It must really hurt his brain to think outside of the box.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Yay for quantum entanglement! It is however, NOT faster than light travel. The experiment you speak about also has mysteriously not been replicated.

The case is simple. The universe is utterly huge, and to travel at any kind of reasonable speed to traverse it requires MORE ENERGY THAN IS IN IT. Worm holes (if they exists at all, and they may), would also require more energy than is in the universe to hold open. Folding space presents similar obstacles.

Yes I "KNOW" aliens have never visited here (unless we are them, and we were bacteriaish [is it bacteriaessent?] in nature when we arrived).

This math will never become obsolete.

You're talking out your ass.

The math shows that there are about a billion planets in the universe that could support life.

You seriously think that not 1 of those planets has sustained life to the point where they have figured out how to acheive a speed, not velocity, of faster than the speed of life?

And if they were smart enough to figure that shit out i'm pretty sure they would have some pretty good sensors that could find other inhabited planets.

Considering we still haven't found a way to combine General Relitivity and Quantum Mechanics I think it's pretty early in the game to say it's impossible to travel faster than the speed of light.

They said we would NEVER walk on the moon.

 

[miketheidiot]

i think most civilizations that get the bomb would destroy themselves before the achieved the technology to colonize the universe. The ones that survive probably would find alternate means to kill themselves off.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Why are we speculating about the motivations of a civilization alien enough to not even obey the laws of physics? That's like writing a book about the mating habits of the Loch Ness monster.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Yay for quantum entanglement! It is however, NOT faster than light travel. The experiment you speak about also has mysteriously not been replicated.

The case is simple. The universe is utterly huge, and to travel at any kind of reasonable speed to traverse it requires MORE ENERGY THAN IS IN IT. Worm holes (if they exists at all, and they may), would also require more energy than is in the universe to hold open. Folding space presents similar obstacles.

Yes I "KNOW" aliens have never visited here (unless we are them, and we were bacteriaish [is it bacteriaessent?] in nature when we arrived).

This math will never become obsolete.

You're talking out your ass.

The math shows that there are about a billion planets in the universe that could support life.

You seriously think that not 1 of those planets has sustained life to the point where they have figured out how to acheive a speed, not velocity, of faster than the speed of life?

And if they were smart enough to figure that shit out i'm pretty sure they would have some pretty good sensors that could find other inhabited planets.

Considering we still haven't found a way to combine General Relitivity and Quantum Mechanics I think it's pretty early in the game to say it's impossible to travel faster than the speed of light.

They said we would NEVER walk on the moon.

There are probably quite a few more than "a billion" planets that support life. The stuff of life is ubiquitous in the universe. The more you energize it, the more complex it becomes. The evidence suggests that life probably exists all over the place. The universe is so large that some of it is bound to have evolved intelligence, and some of that portion, technology, but for the same reason it is impossible for any of it to find us or reach us. The laws of physics simply prevent meetings.

Yes.

Pretty lol...

There are probably 5 people in this thread that think we did not.