Grades vs learning

[ShawnD1]

Innate ability for thinking at any of those levels varies, of course. Then again, maybe CS instructors do an especially poor job of teaching higher level thinking skills.

It's not just CS that has people that can't apply the skills they've learned. In electrical engineering we did basic work with programmable logic controllers that use a visual interface called ladder diagrams. Basically it's a schematic entered in a computer, and the logic controller follows what your schematic says. It's the most basic level of programming imaginable. The stuff I programmed in grade 11 was actually more difficult because grade 11 was all text whereas logic controllers was all visual. It's simple stuff like if a sensor gets a signal, make a counter count up, when it gets to a certain number do this action, reset the counter after it does that act, start over. Even at this level, some people had a hard time dealing with logic programming. They just couldn't get it.

I'm not a very bright person, but my group was flying through the assignments really fast. If you have the technical abilities of a monkey, you can do basic programming like this. If hungry, eat food. If need to pee, go to the bathroom. It really is that basic. Being a class full of engineers, most people picked this up right away; engineers should be logical people. There were still a few groups, probably about 6 people, who seemed to have the teacher's assistance the entire time. It's not like we're looking around to see who's worse than us; we need to demonstrate that our program works and have the teacher sign it. We end up sitting there, staring across the room where the teacher has been trying to explain the most basic concept to people who memorize things for tests. Just learn the damn material and it won't be so difficult!! Grrrrrrr!.

 

[ShawnD1]

they best have extra curricular activities as well... joining a group is a HUGE benefit...
colleges like those...

American colleges are weird. In Canada there is no essay and there's no bullshit about job references or how many dicks you have sucked. It's sorted by your school marks and that's it. You could be the best person since Jesus and it will not help you be a better engineer, so the university doesn't care if you walk on water. Can you do math while walking on water?

 

[alkemyst]

I can. Even do a little jig.

 

[Nik]

My kids are in HS. I'm encouraging them to take all of the math/science and advanced classes they can. It's fine for my son because he's really bright. For my daughter, it's dragging down her grades a bit and could inpact her college choices.

So for my daughter, her grades are being sacrificed for learning. Am I naive?

I'd be more concerned about the religion you're forcing down their throat than her grades.

Why do you care about what college choices she has? A dumbass is a dumbass and you're not going to get into a good college anyway by graduating with an A+ in art while avoiding the classes that will actually benefit them later in life.

 

[Cogman]

To make links between the information learned is important, but if that was not the objective of the material you're taught, or perhaps it wasn't imparted to you that the "GOAL" was such,, no one who optimize for time constraints when studying would do so.

If you're the professor it is more likely that you did NOT do a good job at stressing this "application" or whatever you wanted to teach them. It cannot be assumed that students have the time or interest to always pursue independent study on their own.

You didn't create anything at all.. You've merely put 2 and 2 together, by a method you've been required to memorize in the past. You can not create new information..

you can only DISCOVER it.. Large difference

Again, so wrong. While it is true that there are some things you are discovering, it is not true that all information already exists. Take this post for example. Before I wrote it here, it did not exist. New information has just been created, not discovered. Big difference. This post is more then just a memorized role from me, two different people would have responded (or not responded) to your post in very different ways.

Creating new ideas and data happens all the time (Look at just about any software ever developed.) It is true that making a unique creation is far more infrequent, but that doesn't make the task of inventing new things any less daunting.

Where do you think the ideas that you memorize came from? Calculus certainly didn't exist in its entirety as we now know it before newton. Similarly, the invention of say Television wasn't a simple thing that someone memorized how to do (It came from a farmer, in rupert Idaho). We didn't discover TV, we made it. We discover the nature of things, we create when we manipulate those things.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

I'd be more concerned about the religion you're forcing down their throat than her grades.

Why do you care about what college choices she has? A dumbass is a dumbass and you're not going to get into a good college anyway by graduating with an A+ in art while avoiding the classes that will actually benefit them later in life.

You are a hostile little fellow, aren't you.

 

[borisvodofsky]

Again, so wrong. While it is true that there are some things you are discovering, it is not true that all information already exists. Take this post for example. Before I wrote it here, it did not exist. New information has just been created, not discovered. Big difference. This post is more then just a memorized role from me, two different people would have responded (or not responded) to your post in very different ways.

Creating new ideas and data happens all the time (Look at just about any software ever developed.) It is true that making a unique creation is far more infrequent, but that doesn't make the task of inventing new things any less daunting.

Where do you think the ideas that you memorize came from? Calculus certainly didn't exist in its entirety as we now know it before newton. Similarly, the invention of say Television wasn't a simple thing that someone memorized how to do (It came from a farmer, in rupert Idaho). We didn't discover TV, we made it. We discover the nature of things, we create when we manipulate those things.

This post in a specific time frame did not exist. Your thought process is seriously flawed.

Even beyond that, you memorized grammar, vocab, and prose. Put them together and you have writing.

No they did not have calculus, but the fundamentals of math stems from philosophy, and they certainly had that. Math is just the more recent expression of the logical connectives we've HAD a long time ago.

Calculus is discovery through trial and error. Think about what derivatives are... the key term is DERIVATIVE,, it came from something..

You should really brush up on your "application, connection" skills. Lightyears behind I'd say. :whiste:

 

[borisvodofsky]

I'd be more concerned about the religion you're forcing down their throat than her grades.

Why do you care about what college choices she has? A dumbass is a dumbass and you're not going to get into a good college anyway by graduating with an A+ in art while avoiding the classes that will actually benefit them later in life.

Everyone's already pointed out, life isn't as simple as that.. Too many factors to completely discuss,

But to be practical about it.. Memorization is ENOUGH for the moment, and honestly never hurt anyone.

 

[Cogman]

This post in a specific time frame did not exist. Your thought process is seriously flawed.

How so? You just argued that all information is discovered, not created. I pointed to a specific example of where information is create, not discovered.

Even beyond that, you memorized grammar, vocab, and prose. Put them together and you have writing. There is a HUGE step taken from just "putting 2 + 2 together" and memorization. Take any literary masterpiece ever written. Would you seriously argue that they were just "discovered" by putting 2 + 2 together for grammar and logic? The very process of putting 2 + 2 together is far more complex than you are writing it off to be.

No they did not have calculus, but the fundamentals of math stems from philosophy, and they certainly had that. Math is just the more recent expression of the logical connectives we've HAD a long time ago.

And where did philosophy come from?

Calculus is discovery through trial and error. Think about what derivatives are... the key term is DERIVATIVE,, it came from something..

Calculus is man made. It means nothing beyond the context that we have created for it. It doesn't mean anything in reality, it is totally a human creation. (Not saying it isn't useful, just that it is something created, not discovered. Much like the first hammer wasn't discovered, it was created).

Lightyears behind I'd say. :whiste:

You make no point other than to say "You are stupid, I'm right". Though, I admit, your position is a hard one to defend. You are trying to prove the non-existence of something with just statements. Not a very easy task. I, on the other hand, have many examples of creativity that I can point to plus the added benefit that most people believe that there is a creative process present in humans (and some animals).

 

[Miramonti]

You really do not learn anything until college....so just get a good gpa for now. If she is not able to learn the basics like algebra, then that is just a loss for her.

I learned "Garbage in, garbage out" in high school.

From that point on in my life I was able to build a statistical model predicting within a reasonable degree of certainty what the outcome would be of most things I concern myself with.

 

[MikeMike]

American colleges are weird. In Canada there is no essay and there's no bullshit about job references or how many dicks you have sucked. It's sorted by your school marks and that's it. You could be the best person since Jesus and it will not help you be a better engineer, so the university doesn't care if you walk on water. Can you do math while walking on water?

let me get a pic of me emailed to me and ill show you i can walk on water...

 

[AMCRambler]

:thumbsup:

I'm not sure I took a single class in high school that required something beyond memorization and repeating back whenever the teacher said.

Then again, ask anybody how much they learned in college is applicable to their current job. I bet less than 25% in most cases. Getting a degree just shows that you're capable of doing the work, seeing it through to its completion and thinking for yourself. Beyond that, you can get hired for a lot of jobs that don't necessarily pertain to what you studied. People just have to be willing to give you a chance.

 

[Cerb]

Then again, ask anybody how much they learned in college is applicable to their current job. I bet less than 25% in most cases. Getting a degree just shows that you're capable of doing the work, seeing it through to its completion and thinking for yourself. Beyond that, you can get hired for a lot of jobs that don't necessarily pertain to what you studied. People just have to be willing to give you a chance.

You come in at a time, and start working.

When the clock hits a time, you leave.

However, you will typically be expected to be doing something related to work after you leave, as well.

The important things they learned (K right through college), that they won't think about as being learned in school.

 

[alkemyst]

You are a hostile little fellow, aren't you.

that's Nik's schtick here except he really has nothing in life to back it up with.

 

[TecHNooB]

disconnected thoughts below:

I don't want to start quoting ppl but you don't learn sentence by sentence from a book. You take the central idea and apply your own logic to it. If you reach the same conclusions, your logic matches the author's. If your results don't match, check your logic again. If your logic turns out to be right, write a paper about it lol.

If you read the first paragraph on a particular subject and are able to infer a good deal about it, I would say you are a quick thinker/learner. That doesn't mean you'll be more creative compared to someone who can't think as fast or wrap their brains around a particular idea.

There's also a big difference between thinking you know what something is about and actually knowing what something is about. I can't tell you how many times I've met people who think they 'get' a particular topic, when in fact it was because they didn't question the topic deep enough to reach any mental roadblocks.

 

[Nik]

that's Nik's schtick here except he really has nothing in life to back it up with.

YOU of all people posting as if you know anything about me

quoted for posterity! lmfao...

 

[40sTheme]

Taking Honors classes = More useless crap that only makes life harder.
Just stick with regular stuff, it's not like they're falling behind or anything. Let them actually learn things at home through working with things and playing; experiencing.